Question for vegans/vegetarians:

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username3118454
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#1
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#1
Is it perfectly moral for someone to kill and eat animals if they don't have the alternative sources of nutrition that you would get from meat (e.g. it's either not affordable or just not accessible)?
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Friffinghell
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(Original post by angelike1)
Is it perfectly moral for someone to kill and eat animals if they don't have the alternative sources of nutrition that you would get from meat (e.g. it's either not affordable or just not accessible)?
Theoretically yes. But there's nothing missing from a vegan/vegi diet and it does tend to be cheaper than meat so it's not really a valid point.

Remember not all vegans/vegi are so due to moral reasons. Some of us just prefer it.
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ImagineCats
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Eh I'm not vegan for moral reasons, I just have so much more energy on this diet than a low-carb animal based diet. I completely get why people are in this for moral reasons though after watching a tonne of documentaries when I begame vegan
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username3118454
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(Original post by Friffinghell)
Theoretically yes. But there's nothing missing from a vegan/vegi diet and it does tend to be cheaper than meat so it's not really a valid point.

Remember not all vegans/vegi are so due to moral reasons. Some of us just prefer it.
Then why do I hear some of you guys taking supplement pills? And you never know - i could be a cattle herder in a desert with no access to them protein rich beans.
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Friffinghell
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(Original post by angelike1)
Then why do I hear some of you guys taking supplement pills? And you never know - i could be a cattle herder in a desert with no access to them protein rich beans.
Some people take supplement pills because they're genetically less efficient at processing certain minerals. There's plenty of anaemic meat eaters out there just the same as anaemic vegans. Vitamin D is very hard to find naturally occurring in foods and is usually fortified, so if you're eating non-processed food then a Vit D supplement is probably a good idea. Likewise if you wear sunscreen you're less likely to absorb it.

Also a lot of people take supplements as an addition to their diet.
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Quirky Object
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I don't like the word "moral", but if I were in circumstances such that being vegan would make me malnourished, I wouldn't be vegan. It's all about cost/benefit, really.
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username3118454
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(Original post by ImagineCats)
Eh I'm not vegan for moral reasons, I just have so much more energy on this diet than a low-carb animal based diet. I completely get why people are in this for moral reasons though after watching a tonne of documentaries when I begame vegan
so you don't think it's immoral to (humanely) raise and kill animals for food?

(Original post by Sonechka)
I don't like the word "moral", but if I were in circumstances such that being vegan would make me malnourished, I wouldn't be vegan. It's all about cost/benefit, really.
i was expecting completely opposite responses - you guys are pretty nice
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ImagineCats
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(Original post by angelike1)
so you don't think it's immoral to (humanely) raise and kill animals for food?
Well yeah I guess thats pretty cruel, but I'd rather the animals be killed than we use that space for industries (v controversial opinion). Animals don't really mind being milked, but stealing their babies and keeping baby cows in tight small cages so their meat is tender and delicious is downright evil. Even when I was eating meat I didn't touch veal and never will (and I'm a German enthusiast haha)

(Original post by angelike1)
i was expecting completely opposite responses - you guys are pretty nice
Thanks! I hate telling people irl I'm vegan bc the stereotypes. So many people eat their meat/dairy in front of me and moan bc its so delicious- they just don't get the reasons I'm doing this The people doing this for moral reasons would probably have harsher responses tbh
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username3118454
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(Original post by ImagineCats)
Well yeah I guess thats pretty cruel, but I'd rather the animals be killed than we use that space for industries (v controversial opinion). Animals don't really mind being milked, but stealing their babies and keeping baby cows in tight small cages so their meat is tender and delicious is downright evil. Even when I was eating meat I didn't touch veal and never will (and I'm a German enthusiast haha)
Gotcha. :yy:

(Original post by ImagineCats)
Thanks! I hate telling people irl I'm vegan bc the stereotypes. So many people eat their meat/dairy in front of me and moan bc its so delicious- they just don't get the reasons I'm doing this The people doing this for moral reasons would probably have harsher responses tbh
Oh I wasn't referring to you...

Spoiler:
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jk - you're nice

tbh i see way more people complaining about arrogant vegans than actual arrogant vegans :lol: - so i understand your frustration
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Durhamgirl96
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I would rather starve than eat meat, I think it's evil. I'm not saying that to be dramatic, I just don't believe it's right to end the life of an animal because we're hungry.
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addingishard
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vegans cant get Vitamin B12 without supplements
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Quirky Object
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(Original post by angelike1)
so you don't think it's immoral to (humanely) raise and kill animals for food?



i was expecting completely opposite responses - you guys are pretty nice
I don't think killing animals, mistreating them as is so often done in the dairy industry and supporting the mass environmental damage caused by the industry is the best idea, and for reasons of consumer consciousness I prefer not to partake in any of it (and feel that my health is better this way in any case). But if anyone wants to eat meat, it's their personal choice, and it gets on my nerves when some very vocal vegans give the rest of us a bad rep by going around lambasting people for what they choose to put in their bodies.
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username3118454
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(Original post by Durhamgirl96)
I would rather starve than eat meat, I think it's evil. I'm not saying that to be dramatic, I just don't believe it's right to end the life of an animal because we're hungry.
so is that a 'no' to the OP?
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chelseadagg3r
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(Original post by angelike1)
Is it perfectly moral for someone to kill and eat animals if they don't have the alternative sources of nutrition that you would get from meat (e.g. it's either not affordable or just not accessible)?
Yes. I would never judge anyone for their diet though, especially if they cannot get what they need from a particular diet and need to change it for whatever reason

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username2655767
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(Original post by addingishard)
vegans cant get Vitamin B12 without supplements
Well...we can do what other vegetarian animals do to get B12.. eat some poop. But farm animals are usually given b12 supplements since they don't graze outside. Bacteria make b12, not animals. I'd rather take it than have it be given to a cow, kill the cow and then eat it.
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Oaxfu
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Moral? That's questionable, but necessary from that point of view.

I would say that all animals could theoretically survive without killing others, but this might not be true, as some nutrients cannot be produced by plants (like Creatine, Vitamin K2 etc.) These vitamins can be synthesised, but it's much easier to kill other animals and consume them as the source of such nutrients.

The reason I've turned Vegan is purely because of stomach problems and the fact that a lot of dairy makes me feel ill. Ethically, on the idea of carnism, it's okay to kill other animals, as it seems a 'natural' process i.e. animals will kill other animals lower down the food chain to consume essential nutrients.

Of course, these animals do not have the capabilities to think as we do - they are intelligent, but think of survival over other things we have manifested out of our own thought, such as empathy and the thought of looking after other species.
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(Original post by addingishard)
vegans cant get Vitamin B12 without supplements
They can though!
When humans foraged for food, it had b12 on it because the bacteria in the soil produces it. Nowadays we usually wash our food and so the b12 content is lost.

Ironically, the b12 found in meat is harder to absorb than that in fortified vegetarian foods.
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Kathy89
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(Original post by ImagineCats)
Eh I'm not vegan for moral reasons, I just have so much more energy on this diet than a low-carb animal based diet. I completely get why people are in this for moral reasons though after watching a tonne of documentaries when I begame vegan
Me too

(Original post by addingishard)
vegans cant get Vitamin B12 without supplements
Neither do meat eaters. The B12 found in meat is artificially added as an injection to the animal or added as a nutrient into the processed meat (ready to eat cooked meals), so it is either to take a supplement or to take it second-hand. I don't take any supplements and my blood results are stable. Vegan for 4 years.
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Meany Pie
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(Original post by Kathy89)
Neither do meat eaters. The B12 found in meat is artificially added as an injection to the animal or added as a nutrient into the processed meat (ready to eat cooked meals), so it is either to take a supplement or to take it second-hand. I don't take any supplements and my blood results are stable. Vegan for 4 years.
What?! Gonna need a source on that.
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Kathy89
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(Original post by Meany Pie)
What?! Gonna need a source on that.
Search b12 injection cattle in google there will be planty of sources.
In addition visit some farms and talk to the veterinarians there. 1 person source, what could be better?!
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