How can the Labour Party call itself socialist while being so pro-EU? Watch

beiber25
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Socialism is about protecting those worst of in society and giving everyone a voice through democracy.

Look at how £60bn of european money is spent every single year just to finace the administration of running a european government and all their salaries and bonuses. Not to mention moving from Brussels to Strasbourg and back every single month.

These people who were appointed to the top are so obsessed with consolidating their power over a superstate they imposed a currency on the continent. Because of this we now have 40% youth unemployment in Greece and mass poverty across the Mediterrean. How is that socialist?!

Mass migration from eastern Europe was nessecary in this superstate even though former-Soviet countries weren't given time to recover. Now most of the young workers have left and villages are stuck with pensioners unable to get by. How is that socialist!

Corporatism is at the heart of the modern union, lobbyists bribe bureacrats to make mass legislation and weed out competition, while putting high tariffs on the rest of the world. Workers have to pay more for essential goods and their businesses can't compete.

If Labour wants to truly represent workers, please don't give in to those wealthy intolerant students in your ranks and push for a proper brexit.
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PilgrimOfTruth
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(Original post by beiber25)
If Labour wants to truly represent workers, please don't give in to those wealthy intolerant students in your ranks and push for a proper brexit.
Labour doesn't represent the working class anymore. The party is in chaos and has lost its roots. Corbyn is a fraudster imo, just promising anything and everything to anyone to get votes. Corbyn has opposed the EU just about all of his political career. The current U-Turn on BrExit, suggesting we should now effectively stay in EU by staying in the Single Market and Customs Union is duplicitous in the extreme. He has attempted to play to both Remainers and Leavers throughout the referendum and election. It hasn't worked. ALl he has achieved is to damage his party irrevocably and convince the electorate that nothing he or his party says or does can be trusted or taken at face value.
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username878267
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(Original post by beiber25)
Socialism is about protecting those worst of in society and giving everyone a voice through democracy.

Look at how £60bn of european money is spent every single year just to finace the administration of running a european government and all their salaries and bonuses. Not to mention moving from Brussels to Strasbourg and back every single month.

These people who were appointed to the top are so obsessed with consolidating their power over a superstate they imposed a currency on the continent. Because of this we now have 40% youth unemployment in Greece and mass poverty across the Mediterrean. How is that socialist?!

Mass migration from eastern Europe was nessecary in this superstate even though former-Soviet countries weren't given time to recover. Now most of the young workers have left and villages are stuck with pensioners unable to get by. How is that socialist!

Corporatism is at the heart of the modern union, lobbyists bribe bureacrats to make mass legislation and weed out competition, while putting high tariffs on the rest of the world. Workers have to pay more for essential goods and their businesses can't compete.

If Labour wants to truly represent workers, please don't give in to those wealthy intolerant students in your ranks and push for a proper brexit.
For starters, much of the Pro-EU group in Labour is not socialist. It doesn't claim to be.

The actual socialists in the Labour Party, like Corbyn and Mcdonnell, do tend to be anti-EU.
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mojojojo101
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Labour isn't a socialist party.
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beiber25
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(Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
Labour doesn't represent the working class anymore. The party is in chaos and has lost its roots. Corbyn is a fraudster imo, just promising anything and everything to anyone to get votes. Corbyn has opposed the EU just about all of his political career. The current U-Turn on BrExit, suggesting we should now effectively stay in EU by staying in the Single Market and Customs Union is duplicitous in the extreme. He has attempted to play to both Remainers and Leavers throughout the referendum and election. It hasn't worked. ALl he has achieved is to damage his party irrevocably and convince the electorate that nothing he or his party says or does can be trusted or taken at face value.
Totally agree. Those who try to appease the minority like this will not carry the majority with them. I thought Corbyn could bring labour back to its roots, but is unable to get beyond his membership.

(Original post by Bornblue)
For starters, much of the Pro-EU group in Labour is not socialist. It doesn't claim to be.

The actual socialists in the Labour Party, like Corbyn and Mcdonnell, do tend to be anti-EU.
I'm talking about the new momentum types, which now makes up most of its mass membership.


(Original post by mojojojo101)
Labour isn't a socialist party.
Generally they are, but this issue is a big anomaly. And its a crucial problem they have to be on side with.
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SomeWelshGuy123
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Labour isn't Socialist..... The majority of the membership are Central, or at most Central-Left. The socialist element is a very small number of people.
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mojojojo101
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(Original post by beiber25)




Generally they are, but this issue is a big anomaly. And its a crucial problem they have to be on side with.
No they really aren't, the are at the most a social democratic party which includes some democratic socialists who are out numbered significantly, especially higher up in the party, by neo-liberals and centrists.

Corbyn hasn't re-instated Clause 4 and the party, they don't support worker control of industry and they largely accept free market capitalism as the dominant economic system.

To call the Labour Party socialist is to deliberately misunderstand what Labour policy and Socialism are.
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username878267
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(Original post by beiber25)
Totally agree. Those who try to appease the minority like this will not carry the majority with them. I thought Corbyn could bring labour back to its roots, but is unable to get beyond his membership.



I'm talking about the new momentum types, which now makes up most of its mass membership.




Generally they are, but this issue is a big anomaly. And its a crucial problem they have to be on side with.
Momentum doesn't make up most of the mass membership. The momentum types are generally less pro-EU than the soft left within the Labour Party.
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beiber25
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(Original post by Bornblue)
Momentum doesn't make up most of the mass membership. The momentum types are generally less pro-EU than the soft left within the Labour Party.
That was true 3 years ago, things have changed massively. 60% of the membership supported Corbyn on a far-left agenda while 70% of the membership voted Remain. So more than half of the new pro-Corbyn membership are remainers.
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beiber25
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(Original post by SomeWelshGuy123)
Labour isn't Socialist..... The majority of the membership are Central, or at most Central-Left. The socialist element is a very small number of people.
Then why did the Communist Party and TUSC stand down to support him at the election?
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SomeWelshGuy123
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(Original post by beiber25)
Then why did the Communist Party and TUSC stand down to support him at the election?
Who do you mean by "him"? Do you mean Jeremy Corbyn? He is a socialist yes, but when we vote we aren't voting for him or Cameron, we are voting for our local representative.
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username878267
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(Original post by beiber25)
That was true 3 years ago, things have changed massively. 60% of the membership supported Corbyn on a far-left agenda while 70% of the membership voted Remain. So more than half of the new pro-Corbyn membership are remainers.
Much of the momentum lot did back remain but they aren't Pro-EU in the same way the centrists are.

The reason they backed remain was because they thought that were we to leave, the Tories would make us an even more right wing country. The choice wasn't between a capitalist EU and a socialist Britain, it was more between a capitalist EU or an even more capitalist Britain.
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SCIENCE :D
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If Corbyn wasn't Labour party leader he would have been a Brexiteer.... FACT.
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beiber25
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(Original post by SCIENCE :D)
If Corbyn wasn't Labour party leader he would have been a Brexiteer.... FACT.
Yep. However leadership isn't caving in to demands of blairite elitists on such an important issue.
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beiber25
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(Original post by SomeWelshGuy123)
Who do you mean by "him"? Do you mean Jeremy Corbyn? He is a socialist yes, but when we vote we aren't voting for him or Cameron, we are voting for our local representative.
I meant them (as in Labour). As in both parties didn't stand candidates in any constituency.
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username878267
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(Original post by beiber25)
I meant them (as in Labour). As in both parties didn't stand candidates in any constituency.
Corbyn is not 'far-left'.
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ChaoticButterfly
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Well the most socialist MPs like Dennis Skinner are pro leaving the EU.
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Roasted
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(Original post by beiber25)
Socialism is about protecting those worst of in society and giving everyone a voice through democracy.

Look at how £60bn of european money is spent every single year just to finace the administration of running a european government and all their salaries and bonuses. Not to mention moving from Brussels to Strasbourg and back every single month.

These people who were appointed to the top are so obsessed with consolidating their power over a superstate they imposed a currency on the continent. Because of this we now have 40% youth unemployment in Greece and mass poverty across the Mediterrean. How is that socialist?!

Mass migration from eastern Europe was nessecary in this superstate even though former-Soviet countries weren't given time to recover. Now most of the young workers have left and villages are stuck with pensioners unable to get by. How is that socialist!

Corporatism is at the heart of the modern union, lobbyists bribe bureacrats to make mass legislation and weed out competition, while putting high tariffs on the rest of the world. Workers have to pay more for essential goods and their businesses can't compete.

If Labour wants to truly represent workers, please don't give in to those wealthy intolerant students in your ranks and push for a proper brexit.
The Labour party currently are middle class liberals many of whom live in the m25 corridor. When i say liberal i do not mean sensibly liberal i mean bleeding heart liberal, social justice warrior tree hugger types of people. Jeremy Corbyn has turned Labour from a political party to a protest movement, he probably does not believe in his own politics, Jeremy is trying to appease too many people- he needs to simplify his approach more- the only reason Corbyn did aswell as he did is because of his appeal to students- who 5-10 years down the line abandon his SJW platform of politics as when people get older they move socially right wing. Newsflash Jeremy Corbyn was anti EU up until he became leader of the opposition, where he showed how principled he was by converting himself in to a europhile. Like of loathe his politics Labour Mp Dennis Skinner is the only person in Parliament who has voted down every single EU motion- for this will done Dennis. Labour change there position on the EU more times then the average person changes their underwear.

Jeremy Corbyn's shadow chancellor John McDonnell has quoted communist text in parliament- socialism boarderline communism i would say.
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PilgrimOfTruth
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(Original post by SCIENCE :D)
If Corbyn wasn't Labour party leader he would have been a Brexiteer.... FACT.
100% correct, he has opposed the EU most of his career and the U-Turn now towards keeping us in the SM and CU is pretty duplicitous. Just the usual pandering to any demographic of the electorate. He wants the votes of both Leavers and Remainers and will say/do anything to get them. It's shallow and transparent.

Here is Corbyn's history on the EU:

- He voted in favour of leaving the European Economic Community in 1975.

- He voted against the Maastricht Treaty that created the EU saying:
"It takes us in the opposite direction of an unelected legislative body—the Commission—and, in the case of foreign policy, a policy Commission that will be, in effect, imposing foreign policy on nation states that have fought for their own democratic accountability."

- He voted against the Lisbon Treaty which is the current constitutional basis for the EU.

- He said "There is no future for a Europe that turns its smaller nations into colonies of debt peonage." (Writing about the Greek crisis)

- In an LBC interview, he said:
"If Europe becomes a totally brutal organisation that treats every one of its member states in the way that the people of Greece have been treated at the moment, then I think Europe will lose a lot of support from a lot of people."

There is more but probably not worth listing here.

Bottom line is that Corbyn is anti-EU through and through.

Any suggestion by Labour that we should stay in the EU, whether via SM/CU or not, is entirely at odds with his beliefs and motivations.
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username878267
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(Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
100% correct, he has opposed the EU most of his career and the U-Turn now towards keeping us in the SM and CU is pretty duplicitous. Just the usual pandering to any demographic of the electorate. He wants the votes of both Leavers and Remainers and will say/do anything to get them. It's shallow and transparent.

Here is Corbyn's history on the EU:

- He voted in favour of leaving the European Economic Community in 1975.

- He voted against the Maastricht Treaty that created the EU saying:
"It takes us in the opposite direction of an unelected legislative body—the Commission—and, in the case of foreign policy, a policy Commission that will be, in effect, imposing foreign policy on nation states that have fought for their own democratic accountability."

- He voted against the Lisbon Treaty which is the current constitutional basis for the EU.

- He said "There is no future for a Europe that turns its smaller nations into colonies of debt peonage." (Writing about the Greek crisis)

- In an LBC interview, he said:
"If Europe becomes a totally brutal organisation that treats every one of its member states in the way that the people of Greece have been treated at the moment, then I think Europe will lose a lot of support from a lot of people."

There is more but probably not worth listing here.

Bottom line is that Corbyn is anti-EU through and through.

Any suggestion by Labour that we should stay in the EU, whether via SM/CU or not, is entirely at odds with his beliefs and motivations.
As he's anti EU, you must like him
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