Why is Computer Science regarded as a "boys" Subject?*.

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What makes a subject primarily a "Boys" subject.

This question has been playing on my mind since I started Sixth Form in 2016 and found I was the only girl in my Computer Science. I really want to know why there are not many girls taking subjects like Computing, Product Design, Maths, Physics, Engineering.

I was wondering if you guys could help.

I think it’s just a coincidence in your school

Reply 21

Appleorpear

Original post by DarthRoar

Because most girls don't want to do it. None of this 'not enough encouragement' or 'no opportunities' excuses, but because most don't want to go into computing areas. Just like how most guys don't wanna be a midwife.

A lot of guys are in STEM just because they want a well paid job and they don't know what else they can really do. Females don't have that social stigma and do what they actually like, be it psychology, art, or philosiphy which were all extremely female dominated subjects at my sixth form. About 3/4 the people doing engineering just were doing it because it was a pretty decent sixth form so their parents expected them to get a decent job and if you can get into engineering without having to do very well in your A levels as you can just go for the more niche engineering courses or join an apprenticeship with 3 B's (contrary to a course like medicine where there's a benchmark).

Reply 22

Ophidia

I hadn't heard of computer science before sixth form, as I moved. My original school was all girls and more creatively based, whereas my new sixth form has a third girls and explores stem in more detail.

I think that it depends on the courses at different universities, but I do think that more effort should be made to introduce girls to CS earlier, especially in schools with a greater number of girls in :smile:

Reply 23

Arran90

A metalwork teacher once said in jest that if machine tools were painted bright pink rather than drab colours (like battleship grey) then more girls would take metalwork for O Level. The number of girls who had taken metalwork for O Level over the teacher's entire career could be counted on his fingers.

Would pink computers with pictures of hearts and flowers on them at school attract more girls to Computer Science?

Reply 24

Retired_Messiah

Most girls I saw in my school IT lessons just had 0 interest in any of that kind of stuff. :dontknow:

Reply 25

chazwomaq

Girls don't tend to be as interested in computer science, along with maths, engineering, physics and chemistry.

This is probably because they are "systemising" subjects, based on organization and categorisation, whereas girls tend to be more interested in "emphathizing" subjects based on people and animals.

Check out Simon Baron-Cohen's work on these ideas. It's very plausible that these are biologically based sex differences with evolutionary origins.

Interesting fact: in less gender equal countries like Bangladesh or India, women are much more likely to do STEM subjects and jobs compared with super equal Scandinavia. This is pretty strong evidence that it's not to do with social pressures and discrimination. Instead, in a relatively poor country girls are quite willing to do STEM because it's so important for a better future. In a wealthy country, you can have a decent life whatever you do so girls are freer to follow their natural preferences.

Reply 26

FarhanHalim

From TV/movies it's always been seen here and in most countries as a nerdy boys subject. It's a shame really that more women aren't being attracted into the profession.

Reply 27

Agent007

Honestly dunno why. I'm also the only girl in my Computer Science class and there are only 2 girls(including me) in my physics class. When it comes to stem subjects most girls to either Biology or Chemistry

Reply 28

Hirsty97

Original post by Pangol

I'm sure that the knowledge that the lads doing computer science are waiting for more "cute" girls to also do it so that they have some eye candy is exactly what is needed to get more women involved in the subject.

I concur

Reply 29

qasim-96

I'm doing Computing at uni and there's actually a fair number of girls on my course. In fact, probably half of my seminar group is female. I was actually surprised to see how many girls were doing the course.

Hmm not at my school

Chemistry is about 50/50 girls and boys but almost everyone in my class also takes bio and many aren't so much interested in maths or physics. In my fm class there's like 4 girls out of 11 and they wanna study engineering, computer science, vet med and maths. Physics has like 2 girls out of 15 though lol although one of them is doing btec it. I was also in english lit class last year where there were 5 boys at the start but now there's only 1 lol.

Reply 32

black1blade

At a-level:
Bio- about 50/50 maybe slight female majority
Chemistry- again about 50/50 but maybe slight male majority
Physics- massive male majority
Maths- about 50/50 maybe slight male majority
Further maths- slight male majority
Computer science/ anything computer related- massive male majority

Reply 33

stoyfan

Original post by TiggerTiger

In my school, CS isn't regraded as a 'boys subject' however the vast majority of students were boys.

In CGSE computing (in my year), out of the 60 students, 3 were girls. 2 of them actually wanted to do the subject whilst the other person was forced to take it by their parents.

In A level computing, out of the 15 CS students only one of them is a girl.

Reply 34

crocodile_ears

Original post by DarthRoar

They don't want to. But why? Well, many have tried to explain it, and the best one seems to be biology. Women tend towards nurturing and creativity jobs, ones where interacting with people and helping them is involved. This could be due to ingrained maternal instincts or general behavioral patterns.

If humans didn't take so long to grow up, we probably wouldn't even need language and all the other bits of our culture (e.g school, technology, cities and long lasting buildings). All the stuff society is made of and the influence it has on us is, in essence, a result of our biology. It's important and really interesting, so you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss!

The argument comes down to nature vs. nurture, are women naturally more interested in certain jobs, or is everyone influenced by social expectations? Maybe it's both, but I think the latter is is too interesting and important to ignore. Let's take video games as an example, as a lot of people get into computer science because of them - do less women play video games because they don't just don't want to, or do less play because almost all the story-lines and playable characters are about men?

I'd also argue that there are loads of men in the creative industry, or who's jobs involve interacting and helping people. Think about film directors, artists, fashion designers, doctors, and teachers. A lot of the time, stereo-typically female fields have men in the highest positions, or involve men a lot, so I don't think our biology dominates what jobs we chose that much.

Reply 35

ParadoxSocks

There's loads of things that put girls off. It has a reputation that automatically makes girls think they're unsuitable.

My biggest issue is getting girls to realise it's okay to fail as long as you don't stop trying. I get high achieving girls through who've always managed to do everything first time and that just isn't going to work with programming. They hit a brick wall and give up, which is unfortunate because they tend to make brilliant programmers when they get past that stage.

The number of girls taking GCSE and A level compsci is increasing at a steady rate at my school. We're getting there but it isn't going to be easy to turn the reputation around.

Reply 36

Arran90

Original post by chazwomaq

This could be true but take into account that girls who are attracted to STEM subjects may not be tomboys in the traditional sense and vice versa.

The systemising empathising conflict also turns in other areas of psychology like Asperger syndrome where people with the condition tend to prefer and do better in systemising subjects over empathising subjects.

Interesting fact: in less gender equal countries like Bangladesh or India, women are much more likely to do STEM subjects and jobs compared with super equal Scandinavia. This is pretty strong evidence that it's not to do with social pressures and discrimination. Instead, in a relatively poor country girls are quite willing to do STEM because it's so important for a better future. In a wealthy country, you can have a decent life whatever you do so girls are freer to follow their natural preferences.

In less developed countries young people are more inclined to study subjects that lead to good careers over those which don't. The concept of a liberal education, heavily ingrained into western social norms and ideals, doesn't really exist so (formal) education is viewed first and foremost from a utilarian perspective. There may also be financial incentives for students to study certain STEM subjects over other subjects, like no tuition fees, whereas this does not exist in Britain. I suspect that if there were financial benefits to studying certain STEM subjects in Britain then more girls would study them.

Reply 37

HockeyTilly

I go to an all girls school and computing is a really popular subject at GCSE. I actually know more girls than boys who are interested in computing. At least half of my class are considering cp at a level.

STEM May be more male dominated, but that does not stop the 75% of my year wanting to have a stem career. It isn't a boys subject, it is just more popular among boys.

Reply 38

math42

A complicated question. The most basic answer I can think of is: innate preferences compounded by generations of societal reinforcement.

Reply 39

R3negade

Women and girls just don't seem to have any proclivity towards it. Yesterday whilst waiting for my all male student compsci class to start, I watched the adjacent humanities class fill up with 90% females.

My friend has interviewed many people for developer roles and I asked him about this issue. I asked how many women he had interviewed and his response was zero as they had not received a single application from a female.

There needs to be more outreach and exposure to girls(and boys) at an early age to show the subject area is vast and diverse and certain roles have a large amount of creativity. To an outsider looking in, it can look pretty grim and there is the fedora tipping neck beard stereotype that is necessarily completely true.

Whilst thinking more about this, I found this link and it is worth a read - http://www.computerscience.org/resources/women-in-computer-science/. It highlights some of what I wrote, but expands considerably.

Most men want more women in the industry. The idea that there is some sort of locker-room boys club preventing this from happening is not true.

I agree with chazwomaq view as well that there is a gender bias towards certain areas and this has been substantiated many times over by academic research, but we have also seen the recent controversy when ex google employee James D'amore's observations and recommendations about this very issue were leaked. The poor guy was crucified for just trying to get a dialogue started.

I believe that some women can be as competent as some men and I would like to see an increase in the ratio of male/female workers, but there will never be the utopia of a 50/50 split for the same reason that men massively under-represented in areas such as teaching and nursing - but there is obviously not an issue in these areas as it is seldom discussed.