Man convicted for grabbing woman's breasts during consensual sex
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Yeah I think that's fair. Just because someone consents to sex doesn't mean they consent to all sexual acts. It doesn't matter why she didn't want him to touch her breasts even though she was fine with penetration, what matters is that he did it anyways when she clearly said no.
Maybe it 'ruined his career', but I don't want a doctor who thinks it's okay to touch someone after they said no. Consent is a massive part of medical ethics, so he should know about that and respect that more than other people.
Maybe it 'ruined his career', but I don't want a doctor who thinks it's okay to touch someone after they said no. Consent is a massive part of medical ethics, so he should know about that and respect that more than other people.
Original post by LondonsSweetBoy
Let's say I am getting in my groove and working the boat, when I am suddenly and abruptly about to nut inside her without my approval, but she's like "huh huh, don't you dare finish inside of me or I am taking you to court"!
Let's say I am getting in my groove and working the boat, when I am suddenly and abruptly about to nut inside her without my approval, but she's like "huh huh, don't you dare finish inside of me or I am taking you to court"!
I don't see what the problem is..? If she says stop, if she says "I do not consent to XYZ" before you do XYZ, then you must stop. This is not just a question of law, it's a question of ethics. If she has said she does not consent, then if you continue and ejaculate inside her then you have raped her.
She could have me potentially thrown in jail on the grounds that I ejaculated without her consent.
Err, yes; precisely. Why on earth would someone think it's okay to continue and ejaculate inside their partner when said partner has withdrawn consent? You think it's okay simply because at that point you don't want to stop? That's just childish and a bit rapey.
Or if I am warming up and doing my thing, and she decides to stop me half way and says stop! from pure malice or she'll have me in court.
If she says stop then you must stop. Giving consent is not irrevocable; a person is entitled, legally and morally, to stop the sexual act at any point they choose. I don't understand how that is strange or confusing to you
That is just cruel.
No, it's childish and immature to believe that if a woman has given consent to sex that you are entitled to 'finish' no matter what she says or whether she continues to give consent or not. It's completely puerile and selfish and creepy for someone to think that you are entitled to finish and ejaculate no matter what
Don't you see that is wrong it's just wrong.
I very much tend toward trying to be moderate on the question of rape. I am very much against false accusations and believe false accusers must be punished severely. I am a strong advocate against reductions in the burden of proof in rape cases.
But what you have described (a woman saying "No!" and "Stop!" and you continuing because you feel entitled to blow your load) is straight-up rape. No questions about it
@anarchism101
Mr 101, I should like to hear your thoughts on this matter
Original post by anarchism101
X
Please see my post above to LondonSweetBoy, I should like to hear your thoughts in this matter.
Original post by crocodile_ears
Yeah I think that's fair. Just because someone consents to sex doesn't mean they consent to all sexual acts. It doesn't matter why she didn't want him to touch her breasts even though she was fine with penetration, what matters is that he did it anyways when she clearly said no.
Maybe it 'ruined his career', but I don't want a doctor who thinks it's okay to touch someone after they said no. Consent is a massive part of medical ethics, so he should know about that and respect that more than other people.
Maybe it 'ruined his career', but I don't want a doctor who thinks it's okay to touch someone after they said no. Consent is a massive part of medical ethics, so he should know about that and respect that more than other people.
Indeed, very good comment.
A person is wholly entitled to consent to some sex acts and not to others. There's something very presumptuous and creepy about people who engage is painful acts during sex without asking first (pulling hair, slapping, squeezing nipples).
And you are completely correct on the question of medical ethics; if he can't stay within the bounds of consent during a sex act, his capacity to judge medical ethics is questionable to say the least
Original post by AlexanderHam
I don't see what the problem is..? If she says stop, if she says "I do not consent to XYZ" before you do XYZ, then you must stop. This is not just a question of law, it's a question of ethics. If she has said she does not consent, then if you continue and ejaculate inside her then you have raped her.
Err, yes; precisely. Why on earth would someone think it's okay to continue and ejaculate inside their partner when said partner has withdrawn consent? You think it's okay simply because at that point you don't want to stop? That's just childish and a bit rapey.
If she says stop then you must stop. Giving consent is not irrevocable; a person is entitled, legally and morally, to stop the sexual act at any point they choose. I don't understand how that is strange or confusing to you
No, it's childish and immature to believe that if a woman has given consent to sex that you are entitled to 'finish' no matter what she says or whether she continues to give consent or not. It's completely puerile and selfish and creepy for someone to think that you are entitled to finish and ejaculate no matter what
I very much tend toward trying to be moderate on the question of rape. I am very much against false accusations and believe false accusers must be punished severely. I am a strong advocate against reductions in the burden of proof in rape cases.
But what you have described (a woman saying "No!" and "Stop!" and you continuing because you feel entitled to blow your load) is straight-up rape. No questions about it
@anarchism101
Mr 101, I should like to hear your thoughts on this matter
Err, yes; precisely. Why on earth would someone think it's okay to continue and ejaculate inside their partner when said partner has withdrawn consent? You think it's okay simply because at that point you don't want to stop? That's just childish and a bit rapey.
If she says stop then you must stop. Giving consent is not irrevocable; a person is entitled, legally and morally, to stop the sexual act at any point they choose. I don't understand how that is strange or confusing to you
No, it's childish and immature to believe that if a woman has given consent to sex that you are entitled to 'finish' no matter what she says or whether she continues to give consent or not. It's completely puerile and selfish and creepy for someone to think that you are entitled to finish and ejaculate no matter what
I very much tend toward trying to be moderate on the question of rape. I am very much against false accusations and believe false accusers must be punished severely. I am a strong advocate against reductions in the burden of proof in rape cases.
But what you have described (a woman saying "No!" and "Stop!" and you continuing because you feel entitled to blow your load) is straight-up rape. No questions about it
@anarchism101
Mr 101, I should like to hear your thoughts on this matter
Whatever, you're talking absolute nonsense!
I am not in anyway consenting rape here!
You're making me out to be some creepy rapist here!
Obviously forcing yourself with physical intimidation in a means to get what you want is very wrong.
I am just saying you never, once you're in, it's really really hard to pull out.
It takes a man with a strong will to pull out right in the middle of everything even after she gives consent.
That's like a girl buying my ice cream and I am enjoying the ice cream then she suddenly knocks the ice cream out of my hands for no reason!
It just seems harsh to me!
Original post by LondonsSweetBoy
I am just saying you never, once you're in, it's really really hard to pull out.
I am just saying you never, once you're in, it's really really hard to pull out.
No, it really isn't. Anyone with the most basic self-control can pull out. Anyone who isn't a rapist will pull out if a woman withdraws consent to the sex act, and continuing after that point is rape, legally and morally.
The idea that it's somehow really difficult to stop the sex act sounds like something that some unseasoned virgin would say, the sort of person who is worried that if they don't complete the act they might not get another chance at it for a very long time.
That's like a girl buying my ice cream and I am enjoying the ice cream then she suddenly knocks the ice cream out of my hands for no reason!
No, it's like two people are having sex, and one of them decides that they want the act to stop and the other doesn't stop. In other words, rape.
It just seems harsh to me!
Oh grow up. Have you even had sex before?
Original post by LondonsSweetBoy
Whatever, you're talking absolute nonsense!
I am not in anyway consenting rape here!
You're making me out to be some creepy rapist here!
Obviously forcing yourself with physical intimidation in a means to get what you want is very wrong.
I am just saying you never, once you're in, it's really really hard to pull out.
It takes a man with a strong will to pull out right in the middle of everything even after she gives consent.
That's like a girl buying my ice cream and I am enjoying the ice cream then she suddenly knocks the ice cream out of my hands for no reason!
It just seems harsh to me!
I am not in anyway consenting rape here!
You're making me out to be some creepy rapist here!
Obviously forcing yourself with physical intimidation in a means to get what you want is very wrong.
I am just saying you never, once you're in, it's really really hard to pull out.
It takes a man with a strong will to pull out right in the middle of everything even after she gives consent.
That's like a girl buying my ice cream and I am enjoying the ice cream then she suddenly knocks the ice cream out of my hands for no reason!
It just seems harsh to me!
You are literally defending rape. If a girl say's pull out you pull out why is that so hard to comprehend?
Original post by AlexanderHam
No, it really isn't. Anyone with the most basic self-control can pull out. Anyone who isn't a rapist will pull out if a woman withdraws consent to the sex act, and continuing after that point is rape, legally and morally.
The idea that it's somehow really difficult to stop the sex act sounds like something that some unseasoned virgin would say, the sort of person who is worried that if they don't complete the act they might not get another chance at it for a very long time.
No, it's like two people are having sex, and one of them decides that they want the act to stop and the other doesn't stop. In other words, rape.
Oh grow up. Have you even had sex before?
The idea that it's somehow really difficult to stop the sex act sounds like something that some unseasoned virgin would say, the sort of person who is worried that if they don't complete the act they might not get another chance at it for a very long time.
No, it's like two people are having sex, and one of them decides that they want the act to stop and the other doesn't stop. In other words, rape.
Oh grow up. Have you even had sex before?
Well I am not a virgin. But I don't see what that has to do with anything. And I never raped her it was consensual.
I am just saying I find it hard to pull out!
I never said I won't pull out.
If she asks me to stop! I will stop, I am just making the point that it's hard to pull out not that I won't pull out, there is a difference.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by alexjones1994
How come HE didn't get this option?
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/sep/25/oxford-student-lavinia-woodward-gets-suspended-sentence-for-stabbing-boyfriend
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/sep/25/oxford-student-lavinia-woodward-gets-suspended-sentence-for-stabbing-boyfriend
This demonstrates the difference between going to Oxbridge and the rest like King's College.
Original post by LondonsSweetBoy
Let's say I am getting in my groove and working the boat, when I am suddenly and abruptly about to nut inside her without my approval, but she's like "huh huh, don't you dare finish inside of me or I am taking you to court"!
Let's say I am getting in my groove and working the boat, when I am suddenly and abruptly about to nut inside her without my approval, but she's like "huh huh, don't you dare finish inside of me or I am taking you to court"!
How abruptly?
Obviously if she says it literally as your orgasm has just begun, when you will be physically unable to stop yourself from ejaculating within the next fraction of a second and can't pull out in time, that's not your fault and you can't reasonably be blamed for that.
However, I suspect what you're really saying is that any man who gets anywhere close to orgasm during sex is somehow entitled to continue until he cums regardless of his partner's wishes.
Which, as AlexanderHam says, is ****ed up and rapey.
this is why i stay well the fun away from sex .__.
Original post by LondonsSweetBoy
That's like a girl buying my ice cream and I am enjoying the ice cream then she suddenly knocks the ice cream out of my hands for no reason!
That's like a girl buying my ice cream and I am enjoying the ice cream then she suddenly knocks the ice cream out of my hands for no reason!
No, because ice cream isn't a part of someone else's body, and her letting you eat the ice cream doesn't require her to do anything.
Let's try turning this situation round.
Imagine you're having sex (not necessarily penetrative, but some sort of sex act) with a girl. And then, partway through, you want to stop. Maybe you had too much to drink earlier and you're starting to feel ill. Maybe it's starting to feel painful for whatever reason. Maybe she's into kinky stuff and it's starting to make you feel uncomfortable. Whatever it is, doesn't matter, you want to stop. Do you think she should be entitled to force you to continue with whatever you're doing until she orgasms?
No? So, why do you think it's OK to do it to her?
Original post by anarchism101
No, because ice cream isn't a part of someone else's body, and her letting you eat the ice cream doesn't require her to do anything.
Let's try turning this situation round.
Imagine you're having sex (not necessarily penetrative, but some sort of sex act) with a girl. And then, partway through, you want to stop. Maybe you had too much to drink earlier and you're starting to feel ill. Maybe it's starting to feel painful for whatever reason. Maybe she's into kinky stuff and it's starting to make you feel uncomfortable. Whatever it is, doesn't matter, you want to stop. Do you think she should be entitled to force you to continue with whatever you're doing until she orgasms?
No? So, why do you think it's OK to do it to her?
Let's try turning this situation round.
Imagine you're having sex (not necessarily penetrative, but some sort of sex act) with a girl. And then, partway through, you want to stop. Maybe you had too much to drink earlier and you're starting to feel ill. Maybe it's starting to feel painful for whatever reason. Maybe she's into kinky stuff and it's starting to make you feel uncomfortable. Whatever it is, doesn't matter, you want to stop. Do you think she should be entitled to force you to continue with whatever you're doing until she orgasms?
No? So, why do you think it's OK to do it to her?
Yeah I agree with you in a way, I was just being selfish.
This reminds of the time of standing on a crammed bus on the bottom floor and everyone was tapping their pass and I was crammed, then this hand, unsuspectedly grabs my private parts the person thrusted their hands and had a tight grip on my privates!
I was shocked and jumped in amazement like WOAH!!!
I quickly tried to remove their hands from my bits and it wasn't an easy task I had to really use force, this person made it hard for me. They really had a tight grip, and was being stubborn.
Eventually they let go. It was a very old dude so I couldn't do anything, I rushed upstairs to the top deck of the bus.
I must have been 12 at the time.
I didn't report the person, but I was slightly traumatised by the experience. :/
So I think maybe if I was in the position where a female was forcing herself onto me and I didn't consent it would be upsetting.
So yeah I am in the wrong here.
when I first saw the topic title of man convicted for grabbing woman's breast during consensual sex I thought it was an outrageous conviction and wondered wtf is wrong with society..
although having read the article, it does seem like he may have assaulted her....
so perhaps the conviction is warranted.......
although having read the article, it does seem like he may have assaulted her....
so perhaps the conviction is warranted.......
Original post by AlexanderHam
A most unusual story. Not really sure what to think about it. If he indeed did what is claimed, then he probably deserves to be convicted.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/11/medical-graduate-put-sex-offenders-register-grabbing-tinder/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/11/medical-graduate-put-sex-offenders-register-grabbing-tinder/
Why? The sex was consensual. This women sounds like a horrible ****.
Original post by Dave Lister.
Why? The sex was consensual.
And he wasn't convicted for the sex, he was convicted for grabbing her breasts repeatedly despite her clear discomfort with him doing so and her explicitly asking him not to do so.
Or do you think people shouldn't be allowed to consent to some sex acts and not others, but instead should be required to give "all or nothing" consent?
Original post by anarchism101
However, I suspect what you're really saying is that any man who gets anywhere close to orgasm during sex is somehow entitled to continue until he cums regardless of his partner's wishes.
Which, as AlexanderHam says, is ****ed up and rapey.
However, I suspect what you're really saying is that any man who gets anywhere close to orgasm during sex is somehow entitled to continue until he cums regardless of his partner's wishes.
Which, as AlexanderHam says, is ****ed up and rapey.
I honestly think there should be a 3 thrust Amnesty after the woman says stop in which any additional thrusts upto that limit are disregarded and not seen as rape
If he is really going at it hard, thrusting back and forth ..and then suddenly she yells stop ...he may not be able to just stop out of the blue. A car cannot break and stop on the same spot if travelling at speed...
as for the matter of continuing on until he cums, I would view that technically as rape ....however personally speaking I don't see it as severe as a man forcing himself upon a woman who was not interested in sex. The man and the woman were already having consensual sex when she said stop. In this case I think it should be classed as second degree rape ...and not carry as big a sentence as forcing a woman who was not having sex with him to have sex.
Original post by anarchism101
And he wasn't convicted for the sex, he was convicted for grabbing her breasts repeatedly despite her clear discomfort with him doing so and her explicitly asking him not to do so.
Or do you think people shouldn't be allowed to consent to some sex acts and not others, but instead should be required to give "all or nothing" consent?
Or do you think people shouldn't be allowed to consent to some sex acts and not others, but instead should be required to give "all or nothing" consent?
If they are having sex she must have expected for there to be some physical contact. I don't understand how she was fine with him penetrating her but not touching.
Original post by LondonsSweetBoy
I quickly tried to remove their hands from my bits and it wasn't an easy task I had to really use force, this person made it hard for me. They really had a tight grip, and was being stubborn.
Eventually they let go. It was a very old dude so I couldn't do anything, I rushed upstairs to the top deck of the bus.
I must have been 12 at the time.
I quickly tried to remove their hands from my bits and it wasn't an easy task I had to really use force, this person made it hard for me. They really had a tight grip, and was being stubborn.
Eventually they let go. It was a very old dude so I couldn't do anything, I rushed upstairs to the top deck of the bus.
I must have been 12 at the time.
Argh, that's horrible. I'm sorry that happened, it must have been very unpleasant and when you're 12 you don't really know what to do or how to respond to that sort of thing.
So I think maybe if I was in the position where a female was forcing herself onto me and I didn't consent it would be upsetting.
So yeah I am in the wrong here.
So yeah I am in the wrong here.
Kudos for your change of view / attitude, most people on the internet, once they take a position, will hold to it and defend it no matter what. I salute your thoughtfulness on this matter
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