The Student Room Group

Debate: Should schools have gender-neutral bathrooms for transgender students?

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Reply 60
Avatar for jkls92
jkls92
20
Original post by Good bloke
The world isn't going to stop using urinals because of prissy people who are scared to be seen even by people of their own sex, you know.


I'm not demanding them to be removed, I just can't see how people find them proper. As far as I'm concerned, we can have urinals in gender-neutral loos.

In my school there was none, neither in my uni. No one makes a scene about it.
Yes. It's not just trans and non-binary children who'd use them. Many wouldn't care and would happily use them if they were less busy, and gay children who are routinely bullied over their sexuality would very often prefer them. It doesn't harm anyone and it would help many, so why on earth not? Of course gendered toilets should remain an option too for those who prefer them.
Original post by usualsuspects
we can have urinals in gender-neutral loos.


I don't see how. They'd have to be in a separate section from the cubicles, which would make them a non-gender neutral place. You'd end up with gender-neutral girl's toilets which males have to pass through, and male toilets. The worst possible outcome.
Reply 63
Avatar for jkls92
jkls92
20
Original post by Good bloke
I don't see how. They'd have to be in a separate section from the cubicles, which would make them a non-gender neutral place. You'd end up with gender-neutral girl's toilets which males have to pass through, and male toilets. The worst possible outcome.


you can have the urinal in the same room of the cubicles, just like some male loos today.
Original post by usualsuspects
you can have the urinal in the same room of the cubicles, just like some male loos today.


Ok. You had me going for a while. Well played.
Original post by usualsuspects
you can have the urinal in the same room of the cubicles, just like some male loos today.


Who do you think would be happier about that, the males or the females? You have already told us of your squeamishness at pointing Percy to the porcelain in front of males; what about doing it in front of females?
Reply 66
Avatar for jkls92
jkls92
20
Original post by Good bloke
Who do you think would be happier about that, the males or the females? You have already told us of your squeamishness at pointing Percy to the porcelain in front of males; what about doing it in front of females?


I'd personally use the cubicles, but if someone finds urinals preferable, why not add this option?
If, very rarely, a child is very uncomfortable with using one of the two normal sets of toilet facilities, can't they use the disabled toilet? Don't most schools have one of those? Because they are gender neutral, and would appear to solve any problem.

Beyond that I am against any steps being taken that might lead children to conclude that society has to change, to the point that buildings must be remodelled, to accommodate particular individuals' feelings.
Original post by TimmonaPortella
If, very rarely, a child is very uncomfortable with using one of the two normal sets of toilet facilities, can't they use the disabled toilet? Don't most schools have one of those? Because they are gender neutral, and would appear to solve any problem.

Beyond that I am against any steps being taken that might lead children to conclude that society has to change, to the point that buildings must be remodelled, to accommodate particular individuals' feelings.


That would force the child to come out of the closet to the school to request permission, and then come up with some explanation for their peers as to why they were using a different toilet to everyone else. That's far from a solution. Right now there's children who avoid using the toilet all day rather than face these issues, whether that's because they're transgender or (in the case of boys in particular) bullied for some other reason that makes them feel vulnerable using a gendered toilet. That's a health issue, not just "individuals' feelings". The availability of gender neutral facilities would make a significant number of children far more comfortable at school and reduce bullying at in most cases zero cost - you could easily designate a couple of existing loos as gender-neutral while keeping gendered ones elsewhere.
Original post by usualsuspects
I'd personally use the cubicles, but if someone finds urinals preferable, why not add this option?


I think you'd find that there would be uproar, especially from the parents of thirteen-year old girls who were expected to share the facilities used by eighteen-year old boys.
Reply 70
Avatar for jkls92
jkls92
20
Original post by Good bloke
I think you'd find that there would be uproar, especially from the parents of thirteen-year old girls who were expected to share the facilities used by eighteen-year old boys.


The girls would use the cubicles. With a rational organisation of the space, one could ensure that people wishing to go to the cubicles don't have to pass close to the urinals. But I agree that sacrificing the dreadful urinals is the simplest and safer option.
Original post by Saoirse:3
you could easily designate a couple of existing loos as gender-neutral while keeping gendered ones elsewhere.


How would this work at a boys' school? Or a girls' school for that matter?

The bullies would spot anyone using the gender-neutral toilets and use the opportunity for a bit of private abuse, undisturbed. They would even look out for them. Bullying is an issue that has to be tackled, full stop; nor facilitated.
Original post by usualsuspects
sacrificing the dreadful urinals is the simplest and safer option.


The vast majority of males like the urinals, though, as they are quicker to use.
Original post by Good bloke
The vast majority of males like the urinals, though, as they are quicker to use.


speaking as a male... I HATE URINALS!!!
Original post by Saoirse:3
That would force the child to come out of the closet to the school to request permission, and then come up with some explanation for their peers as to why they were using a different toilet to everyone else. That's far from a solution. Right now there's children who avoid using the toilet all day rather than face these issues, whether that's because they're transgender or (in the case of boys in particular) bullied for some other reason that makes them feel vulnerable using a gendered toilet. That's a health issue, not just "individuals' feelings". The availability of gender neutral facilities would make a significant number of children far more comfortable at school and reduce bullying at in most cases zero cost - you could easily designate a couple of existing loos as gender-neutral while keeping gendered ones elsewhere.


Yeah, well I'm sorry but you have to deal with other people in society, and these other people are capable of noticing your behaviour patterns and any problems you might have. It might be thought that school is where a child should learn to manage this. Do you think other children would just magically not notice if a particular child started using the gender neutral toilets, or regularly went out of his way to use the gender neutral toilets rather than the ordinary ones, and that this wouldn't require explanation? Would such a child not in every case exhibit other behaviours that would mark him out as having a problem, and therefore as a target for bullying?

If there is bullying schools should deal with this, but I entirely do not buy that providing an additional toilet facility would have a substantial impact on the bullying of children with gender issues.
Original post by Good bloke
How would this work at a boys' school? Or a girls' school for that matter?

The bullies would spot anyone using the gender-neutral toilets and use the opportunity for a bit of private abuse, undisturbed. They would even look out for them. Bullying is an issue that has to be tackled, full stop; nor facilitated.


Personally I don't support single-gender schools at all - I think they're an absolutely terrible idea. But if you're at one you're going to be associated with that gender no matter what unfortunately.

I really don't think that would happen if we were talking about one or two larger toilets that were commonly used. There'd be a bit of a stigma in the first couple of weeks, but eventually people would use them just out of convenience if they had no particular preference. We do have to tackle bullying but we also have to recognise that we're very far away from that and that there will always be some small amount no matter what. We should recognise that bullying predominantly occurs within rather than between genders and give children a way to avoid such gendered spaces where possible. I mean, even if a school has done very well in virtually eliminating bullying, there'll be chidren who are traumatised by previous experiences in addition to those who may be trans, non-binary etc all of whom would often appreciate gender-neutral facilities.
Original post by euphonious
Tell me what you think. :smile:

I think it's stupid. What's the point?
a child 16 and younger can't call themselves gender neutral how ****ed up is that
we have some mixed gender toilets at uni and they're gross and awkward. they basically serve as another male toilet without urinals. and for the dim minded like me i honestly thought they were there because they ran out of space to put toilets so was thinking what a joke the architect was
Yes I believe this would be a good idea. This is especially good for the kids who are queer, genderless and fluid. Im all foe it!
Original post by DYoverDX
I think it's stupid. What's the point?


This point is for people and kids to feel comfortable using using the bathroom. Yes it would take time and construction, but it would be worth it. It is one step closer to making ALL people, not just cisgender and straight people, feel accepted.

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