Oxbridge = Inaccessible to most students?

What's the offer rate for those areas?

Is the improvement of education in Knowsley the responsibility of Cambridge?

Posted from TSR Mobile

Let's talk about Wales then shall we?

Could you be specific about the 'filters' you're talking about? Because as far as I can see, the real filter is some basic level of attainment in public examinations, followed by the same interview, and often admissions test, as every other candidate.

I suspect most Oxbridge academics don't think all that much about access one way or another. They simply assess, when called upon to do so, the candidates who present themselves, and choose the ones who have potential and appear to be receptive students. This is an entirely proper way for them to behave.

I'm afraid the bold reads as wild conspiracy theory, especially since there is a strong presence of foreign tutors in most faculties who I doubt have any particular affiliation in general to Old Etonians and the populace of Surrey.

If you applied a tiny bit of thought to this, you would realise that a major issue is that a lot of kids who should be able to be in a position to apply are, through no fault of their own, not able to. There a lot of reasons for this all of which are down to a lack of social, educational fiscal equality in the UK.

I think Lammy is wrong and right. There certainly is a problem with representation of working class/ethnic minorities at Oxbridge, but it isn't the fault of Oxbridge if applicants from these backgrounds don't have the academic record. They can't accept people who they aren't sure will be able to keep up with the rigour of Oxbridge because that damages the reputation of the university; correct me if I'm wrong, but TEF take pass rates/degree classification into account, don't they?

The problem is that private school students or middle class white children from the South have an advantage from the very beginning. They're brought up by educated parents who make sure they send them to better schools, they're socialised in the 'correct' way, they're brought up with a standard of success and have scholastic and professional opportunities that working class students (particularly minorities) do not. We cannot keep pretending like environment isn't important, and we certainly can't pretend that our society is in any way authentically meritocratic if we don't acknowledge that some kids have a far better chance of getting in because of their upbringing compared to their working class counterparts. Instead of forcing Oxbridge to become more lenient, we should be setting up schemes to encourage, incentivise and enable working class children to pursue Oxbridge from the minute they get to secondary school. I only learned about university and A level requirements in my last few months of AS - and that was far too late.

But more than just getting academic levels up to scratch, we need to teach working class students to cope in middle-upper class environments. When I went to university and started to socialise with people from middle class backgrounds, I **** you not, it was like moving to another country. The culture shock was immense, and I don't even go to an incredibly impressive university. The alienation that ethnic minority and working class students must feel at Oxbridge is probably far worse. Teachers in working class communities, though some are good, a lot more care about spoon-feeding kids and getting them to just pass. It's a numbers game where they care more about their own annual performance evaluations than encouraging their students, and I don't blame them. But being told that you should be aiming for Cs when you know you can achieve As is demoralising. Working class and ethnic minority kids need to be taught to speak properly and with confidence, they need to be taught how to behave in certain social settings and network, as their middle class counterparts have. This, alongside academic performance, will help empower more working class students to apply to Oxbridge.

I agree but the universities cannot be blamed for that. Given that education is managed locally people should look to their local politicians and elect those that will try to ensure success and equality of opportunity rather than those that try to bring everything down to the level of the lowest.

The other major factors are parents who do not value education and will not support schools by improving their children's attendance and behaviour, and the kids themselves, many of whom are easy prey for peer pressure (which is ironic given how many teenagers bleat about wanting to be treated as individuals).

The reintroduction of grammar schools nationwide would assist (they gave me my route out of poverty) but that is definitely not going to happen due to the control of teaching training being in the hands of those opposed to it for political reasons.

I have a relative with a child in Aberystwyth; from what she tells me, I think the problems aren't really related to Oxbridge...

Barely any kids ever apply to Oxbridge from Knowsley. They are simply not in a position to do by the time they reach year 13. There are many reasons for this, and I think you know that.

You can talk about 'acceptance rates' all day long, but you also know the real scandal is the lack of applications in the first place.

And is this something Oxbridge can be expected to fix?

Barely any kids ever apply to Oxbridge from Knowsley. They are simply not in a position to do by the time they reach year 13. There are many reasons for this, and I think you know that.

You can talk about 'acceptance rates' all day long, but you also know the real scandal is the lack of applications in the first place.

It would be interesting to see the equivalent table by SEB groups and ethnicity.

It would be interesting to see the equivalent table by SEB groups and ethnicity.

And is this something Oxbridge can be expected to fix?

The kids who will have applied to Oxbridge from Wales are likely to represent the brightest and the best in the Country. Why then are they 10% less likely to get an Oxbridge place than the brightest and the best in the South East?

That table clearly shows the much bigger issue that Lammy was trying to highlight than the geographical one. Unfortunately I am not surprised by any of those stats.

There's a difference between a fix and a move in the right direction. All the higher status universities in the UK officially proclaim a desire to widen access. The question is, are they succeeding and if not, why not?

Sorry if I have posted this already - the app keeps crashing on me everytime I go to post.

Thank you for taking the time to find this and post it.

This is even more damning than the BAME table and is where we should really be focusing this debate.

The geographical point is one that almost universities will have, but no one will have a go at Hull for not getting enough Surrey applicants and then making enough offers.