Should the burka be banned? convince me
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Original post by Avaia
Well, if you ban the burka, by precedent you need to ban every religious headdress. Judaism, Sikhism, Catholicism etc, all have them.
False equivalence. The burqa is not just a "headdress"; it's a full body veil and found in no other religion. Moreover, there is no compulsory clothing in Judaism and Catholicism.
Original post by y.u.mad.bro?
Love it when anon people like you try to act smart. Please stop hiding and come forward. Onto the main point, many scholars have claimed that khimar is actually a head covering and if you do your research, you will realise the meaning behind the word and it's interpretation. Also, I don't think you know but there are hadiths which refer to Muhammad wiping his wet hands over his (khimar) which he wore on his head and his socks. Therefore, khimar here actually does tell you that it also applies to headcovering but the general meaning is as mentioned any covering.
Now, onto my opinion, I don't care whether people cover their heads or not since it isn't my area of concern.
Now, onto my opinion, I don't care whether people cover their heads or not since it isn't my area of concern.
You don't learn Islam from scholars' opinions, you learn it from the word of God, which is your Quran. Your Quran doesn't tell women to take the Khimar and put it on their head, therefore this is not what God asked for. If God wanted women to cover their heads, he would've said so. Remember - the Quran is complete and fully detailed (Quran - 6:114). It's actually a sin to take the words of scholars instead of the words of God.
Also, don't come at the anon person who replied to you when I wasn't anon and replied to you but you chose to ignore me and reply to him just so that you could attack the fact that he decided to be anon lol.
Original post by Avaia
Well, if you ban the burka, by precedent you need to ban every religious headdress. Judaism, Sikhism, Catholicism etc, all have them.
I don't think you know what a burqa is. It covers the face, not just the head.
Original post by edd522
False equivalence. The burqa is not just a "headdress"; it's a full body veil and found in no other religion. Moreover, there is no compulsory clothing in Judaism and Catholicism.
The burka is not compulsory, and also, have you ever seen nuns?
1. It is a huge security threat - crime scenes, airports etc... a Burqa is a disguise. There are countless examples of men using the disguise of a Burqa in shootings (Iranian Parliament)
2. It is terrifying - imagine little children being taught by somebody in a Burqa. In practical senses, young children need to see teacher's face to understand formation of words on the mouth and begin to understand emotions
3. It is the very antithesis of integration into Western society. Feel free to wear a Chadoor, a Hijab (you are expressing your religion) but the Burqa is not even mentioned in the qu'ran as necessary.Purdah segregates women at homes and the Burqa segregates them in public. While the authorities cannot interfere with what people choose to do in their own homes—the public wearing of the Burqa is a statement that women are unequal and must be segregated.
Countries where the Burqa is commonly worn also have higher rates of domestic violence. In Afghanistan 87 percent of women reported experiencing domestic violence. In Pakistan that number goes as high as 90 percent. Domestic violence is also a major problem in Saudi Arabia.
In cases of domestic abuse, the Burqa doesn’t just isolate the woman, it also covers up evidence of the abuse. It gives the abuser the freedom to brutalize his partner without worrying that anyone will even notice.
This is an especially vital issue in Europe, where spousal abuse is a serious crime, and the abuser has more motivation than ever to cover it up. The Burqa successfully isolates abuse victims, cuts them off from any prospective support networks and prevents anyone on the outside from even realizing what is being done to them.
4. The argument that 'if we had a burqa in the West people would allow it'. This is not even rationably defensible because WE DO NOT.
5. Biologically, humans communicate through the face - how do you know how somebody is feeling, how to get to know them.
6. Frankly, I find the Burqa a disgusting garment. Show your face. Who even are you?
7. For those who are just saying 'Because people should be able to do whatever they want', can you just step back and try to properly structure an argument. Should we be 'allowed' to kill who we want, should we 'allow' people to be hurt because of an interpretation of a statement in a religious book?
8. When I go abroad to Middle Eastern countries, I wear a headscarf and a mantoor out of respect and complience with the culture. When you come to the West, at least TRY to comply... The west is more tolerant but should draw the line at that horrendous Burqa.
9. People who argue for the Burqa are the kind to argue that ISIS are freedom fighters.
2. It is terrifying - imagine little children being taught by somebody in a Burqa. In practical senses, young children need to see teacher's face to understand formation of words on the mouth and begin to understand emotions
3. It is the very antithesis of integration into Western society. Feel free to wear a Chadoor, a Hijab (you are expressing your religion) but the Burqa is not even mentioned in the qu'ran as necessary.Purdah segregates women at homes and the Burqa segregates them in public. While the authorities cannot interfere with what people choose to do in their own homes—the public wearing of the Burqa is a statement that women are unequal and must be segregated.
Countries where the Burqa is commonly worn also have higher rates of domestic violence. In Afghanistan 87 percent of women reported experiencing domestic violence. In Pakistan that number goes as high as 90 percent. Domestic violence is also a major problem in Saudi Arabia.
In cases of domestic abuse, the Burqa doesn’t just isolate the woman, it also covers up evidence of the abuse. It gives the abuser the freedom to brutalize his partner without worrying that anyone will even notice.
This is an especially vital issue in Europe, where spousal abuse is a serious crime, and the abuser has more motivation than ever to cover it up. The Burqa successfully isolates abuse victims, cuts them off from any prospective support networks and prevents anyone on the outside from even realizing what is being done to them.
4. The argument that 'if we had a burqa in the West people would allow it'. This is not even rationably defensible because WE DO NOT.
5. Biologically, humans communicate through the face - how do you know how somebody is feeling, how to get to know them.
6. Frankly, I find the Burqa a disgusting garment. Show your face. Who even are you?
7. For those who are just saying 'Because people should be able to do whatever they want', can you just step back and try to properly structure an argument. Should we be 'allowed' to kill who we want, should we 'allow' people to be hurt because of an interpretation of a statement in a religious book?
8. When I go abroad to Middle Eastern countries, I wear a headscarf and a mantoor out of respect and complience with the culture. When you come to the West, at least TRY to comply... The west is more tolerant but should draw the line at that horrendous Burqa.
9. People who argue for the Burqa are the kind to argue that ISIS are freedom fighters.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Avaia
The burka is not compulsory, and also, have you ever seen nuns?
Similar to a Hijab. Which is not being debated. A Burka FULLY covers your face. The only time I've seen that in other religions is a thin veil which you can still see through on a Wedding.
Original post by wonderuss
You don't learn Islam from scholars' opinions, you learn it from the word of God, which is your Quran. Your Quran doesn't tell women to take the Khimar and put it on their head, therefore this is not what God asked for. If God wanted women to cover their heads, he would've said so. Remember - the Quran is complete and fully detailed (Quran - 6:114). It's actually a sin to take the words of scholars instead of the words of God.
Also, don't come at the anon person who replied to you when I wasn't anon and replied to you but you chose to ignore me and reply to him just so that you could attack the fact that he decided to be anon lol.
Also, don't come at the anon person who replied to you when I wasn't anon and replied to you but you chose to ignore me and reply to him just so that you could attack the fact that he decided to be anon lol.
There are plenty of other verses in the Quran which tell you to do stuff and have various different interpretations from different people. However, you follow the one which is most logical and which makes most sense. I'm not here to say women must wear a burqa or w/e because frankly I couldn't give a s***. But I merely stated the simple fact that the word Khimar does link to headcovering if you look at some hadiths.
And No, i forgot to quote you, my bad. Wasn't ignoring you. Good day.
Original post by Yipyipee
article 18 in the declaration of BASIC human rights, the right to hold your own beliefs and be able to express your religion, including burkas
If a religion told you to kill all the non believers and you wished to express this... Is the rationalization for deterring criminalization this same article?
Original post by coolio333
I'm a British Muslim and I'm interested to know as to why many people are strongly for the ban of the Burka?
There is a case for a ban on hiding your identity in some situations. There absolutely should not be a ban on a specific item of clothing, just on the effect. The fact that an item has a religious / indoctrinated reason is irrelevant, and should not give rise to it being treated any differently from similar non-religious dress.
Original post by TeenRose29
I personally don’t like or agree with it but then again if people I wanaa wear it and it makes them feel comfortable or whatever then meh it’s their problem they can wear whatever, not my problem.
It is if the person underneath uses a Burqa as a disguise and throws acid on you. (It's happened, look it up).
Original post by Yipyipee
article 18 in the declaration of BASIC human rights, the right to hold your own beliefs and be able to express your religion, including burkas
No, it doesn't:
Freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs may be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary to protect public safety, order, health, or morals or the fundamental rights and freedoms of others.
Original post by gotaquestion
Similar to a Hijab. Which is not being debated. A Burka FULLY covers your face. The only time I've seen that in other religions is a thin veil which you can still see through on a Wedding.
Yes, but the issue is, once you start to ban 1 religious item, you begin to ban everything. When was the last mass attack committed by a person wearing a Burka? When was the last huge security breach involving a burka? Because there really aren't many, just like there aren't many cases of Sikhs using their Kirpans and weapons. We can agree their is an issue with knife crime and terrorism etc, but the Kirpan is not related to knife crime, just like the Burka is not related to terrorism.
The real issue is public ignorance, people don't understand the burka and there is this huge mass panic around Islam and not being able to see a face etc, but really, where is the issue?
Original post by y.u.mad.bro?
Love it when anon people like you try to act smart. Please stop hiding and come forward. Onto the main point, many scholars have claimed that khimar is actually a head covering and if you do your research, you will realise the meaning behind the word and it's interpretation. Also, I don't think you know but there are hadiths which refer to Muhammad wiping his wet hands over his (khimar) which he wore on his head and his socks. Therefore, khimar here actually does tell you that it also applies to headcovering but the general meaning is as mentioned any covering.
Now, onto my opinion, I don't care whether people cover their heads or not since it isn't my area of concern.
Now, onto my opinion, I don't care whether people cover their heads or not since it isn't my area of concern.
More of your little deceptions I see. A khimar simply means a covering and could be used with equal accuracy to describe a tablecloth. Just because Muhammad once covered his head does not follow that a khimar implicitly means a head covering, it doesn’t. If the Quran were god’s perfect word he’d make sure he specified the head, face and hair, but he doesn’t, it’s only the bosom that’s mentioned. So we can once again conclude that no head covering is Islamic.
Original post by gotaquestion
It is if the person underneath uses a Burqa as a disguise and throws acid on you. (It's happened, look it up).
I know but then again that’s not everyone so I mean if they’re normal or safe whatever and wanaa wear it then meh idc but I personally think you should show you’re face cuz the head covering is fine i don’t think the face covering is a overly religious thing anyway.
Original post by Avaia
Yes, but the issue is, once you start to ban 1 religious item, you begin to ban everything. When was the last mass attack committed by a person wearing a Burka? When was the last huge security breach involving a burka? Because there really aren't many, just like there aren't many cases of Sikhs using their Kirpans and weapons. We can agree their is an issue with knife crime and terrorism etc, but the Kirpan is not related to knife crime, just like the Burka is not related to terrorism.
The real issue is public ignorance, people don't understand the burka and there is this huge mass panic around Islam and not being able to see a face etc, but really, where is the issue?
The real issue is public ignorance, people don't understand the burka and there is this huge mass panic around Islam and not being able to see a face etc, but really, where is the issue?
2017 Iranian Parliament Attack
Manchester Evening News 2017 June - Women in Burqas force into a flat with knives and a hammer
2015 London Acid Attack on Friend whist wearing a Niqab (Konye)
The KKK wear an item similar to a Burqa. It is unlawful for a British citizen to walk around with a balaclava on due to security reasons (there does not need to be a list of incidents to support a security THREAT AND ISSUE).
'It shall be unlawful for any person over sixteen years of age while wearing any mask, hood or other device whereby a substantial portion of the face is hidden or covered so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, to be or appear in any public place, or upon any private property in this Commonwealth'
Why should Burqas be an exception?
Statistically, there are not THAT many terrorist events in this country. Does not mean it is not an issue.
Where is this issue???
Your argument is not even tenable never mind coherent.
This issue is security threats, anti-integration, the issues of domestic abuse, sexual segregation. You are ignorant.
Before you reply, why don't you consider my other points too before blubbering out something else.
AND LOL - Is one of your points that if we make a ban then everything else will be banned? Ah yes got me there, when we banned the balaclava, we banned people wearing socks too
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by TeenRose29
I know but then again that’s not everyone so I mean if they’re normal or safe whatever and wanaa wear it then meh idc but I personally think you should show you’re face cuz the head covering is fine i don’t think the face covering is a overly religious thing anyway.
I agree that headcovering is fine but you should show your face.
However your point, 'that's not everyone'...
Not everyone has a gun in this country. Should we still not ban brandishing a gun around in a public place?
Should laws only be put in place when everyone starts to do it?
Original post by Anonymous
I'm pretty sure certain acts of public displays of nudity have repercussions in this country's jurisdiction.
Original post by gotaquestion
I agree that headcovering is fine but you should show your face.
However your point, 'that's not everyone'...
Not everyone has a gun in this country. Should we still not ban brandishing a gun around in a public place?
Should laws only be put in place when everyone starts to do it?
However your point, 'that's not everyone'...
Not everyone has a gun in this country. Should we still not ban brandishing a gun around in a public place?
Should laws only be put in place when everyone starts to do it?
That’s true Tbf but then again if it were up to me I would fine with banning it but I guess we ain’t the people to dictate what people can wear 🤷🏻*♀️
Original post by Avaia
When was the last mass attack committed by a person wearing a Burka? When was the last huge security breach involving a burka? Because there really aren't many, just like there aren't many cases of Sikhs using their Kirpans and weapons. We can agree their is an issue with knife crime and terrorism etc, but the Kirpan is not related to knife crime, just like the Burka is not related to terrorism.
The real issue is public ignorance, people don't understand the burka and there is this huge mass panic around Islam and not being able to see a face etc, but really, where is the issue?
The real issue is public ignorance, people don't understand the burka and there is this huge mass panic around Islam and not being able to see a face etc, but really, where is the issue?
It's a garment like any other. A (claimed) link to a religion doesn't change its effect (hiding identity), nor does it magically imply that it can never be used for criminal purposes.
Original post by Avaia
Yes, but the issue is, once you start to ban 1 religious item, you begin to ban everything. When was the last mass attack committed by a person wearing a Burka? When was the last huge security breach involving a burka? Because there really aren't many, just like there aren't many cases of Sikhs using their Kirpans and weapons. We can agree their is an issue with knife crime and terrorism etc, but the Kirpan is not related to knife crime, just like the Burka is not related to terrorism.
The real issue is public ignorance, people don't understand the burka and there is this huge mass panic around Islam and not being able to see a face etc, but really, where is the issue?
The real issue is public ignorance, people don't understand the burka and there is this huge mass panic around Islam and not being able to see a face etc, but really, where is the issue?
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