The unlogic of the liberal left

OP

Original post by yudothis

Linken the Wikipedia entry that specifically states it's the basis of a conspiracy theory...

Forget conspiracy theories, just stick to with he facts of what it is.

Reply 161

Original post by Airplanebee2

Forget conspiracy theories, just stick to with he facts of what it is.

No, because that is what this is. Because you are saying people are somehow following this school of thought. That's an active thing. At best some of the ideas occur in some situations, passively, simply descriptive. Not leading.

Reply 162

username878267

15

Original post by Airplanebee2

And if you look back on this thread you well see it’s littered with people responding to my post with certain justifications that fall under this theory like black groups are oppressed and white groups are privileged. The entire political system works to this tune with its new “hate crimes units” going after oppressor groups who slate oppressed groups.

Yes you are right, no one stands up and declares their belief in postmodern social theory, it’s buried in their thinking, their processes and their subconscious.

So far your argument amounts to the notion that because people are sacked for using racist terms which have long been used in a racist manner, that social marxism has taken over.

Not that social marxism exists or means anything outside of internet forums though.

Reply 163

OP

Original post by yudothis

No, because that is what this is. Because you are saying people are somehow following this school of thought. That's an active thing. At best some of the ideas occur in some situations, passively, simply descriptive. Not leading.

You are watching our entire parliament implode from this theory and still not getting it! Ministers resigning because they gave someone a glance 15 years ago. That is the theory working subconsciously - identification and punishment of “the patriarchy” - men in power.

You are thinking within this paradigm therefore you can’t see it.

Reply 164

OP

Original post by Bornblue

So far your argument amounts to the notion that because people are sacked for using racist terms which have long been used in a racist manner, that social marxism has taken over.

Not that social marxism exists or means anything outside of internet forums though.

It doesn’t exist just on Internet forums. It exists in the collective mind, the media for example and it’s in the unconscious of the individual mind, for example someone thinking twice if they think they need to fire a black person for work performance issues for example. It’s buried in their subconscious, ah this might result in some special court action for discrimination.

Reply 165

JamesN88

Original post by anarchism101

"Liberal left" and Frankfurt School conspiracy theories... I really need to make a bingo game for this....

Buzzword Bingo - Starring 2017's edgiest of the edgy. :biggrin:

Reply 166

Original post by Airplanebee2

You are watching our entire parliament implode from this theory and still not getting it! Ministers resigning because they gave someone a glance 15 years ago. That is the theory working subconsciously - identification and punishment of “the patriarchy” - men in power.

You are thinking within this paradigm therefore you can’t see it.

You don't understand the point. This theory is not driving social change. Parts of it describe parts of this change that is all. There's no ministers resigning because of it. What is happening is not driven by this theory. Stop with your conspiracy nonsense.

And there is nothing wrong with finally being held accountable after 15 years.

Reply 167

JamesN88

Original post by Airplanebee2

You are watching our entire parliament implode from this theory and still not getting it! Ministers resigning because they gave someone a glance 15 years ago. That is the theory working subconsciously - identification and punishment of “the patriarchy” - men in power.

You are thinking within this paradigm therefore you can’t see it.

Would you seriously expect to keep your job if you got busted doing this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41794625

Reply 168

Original post by Airplanebee2

So you think that Frankfurt School did not exist or it wasn’t highly influential? As that can be proved wrong in an instant.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School

Oh, it existed, sure. Influential? Meh, in some academic social sciences, to an extent, yes. But not on major conventional politics.

Reply 169

OP

Original post by anarchism101

Oh, it existed, sure. Influential? Meh, in some academic social sciences, to an extent, yes. But not on major conventional politics.

So where you think think the concepts of equality, diversity, tolerance, equalities commissions, changing words as to not offend, verbal offensives crimes, hate crime police etc came from.

Did they exist before the 60s era?

You are claiming that these things are insignificant yet people lose their jobs and get locked up for them?

How can something be insignificant if people lose their jobs and get locked up over it?

Most of the recent responses on here are acting like those people who tell someone who has studied something for 15 years “I never heard of it so it’s bull” - with absolutely no validation or thought. Do you not understand that people as humans sometimes fail to grasp something then if someone explains it they have a eureka moment?

It’s actually very simple, you see the evidence before your eyes but you simply refuse to accept it or comprehend it.

only a small percentage of people can question the political ideology they are in.

3% crate and question the ideology. 17% are the middle class blind followers of the ideology. 80% are “the animals” who don’t understand it well enough to follow.

The 17% / middle classes are only capable of understanding the ideology after the fact, like Nazi or former Soviet ideology. They are too much under orders and don’t have someone to lead them to question their own ideology.

I am sure that in actual fact some people fee very threatened by any challenges to the ideology because it threatens their understanding and therefore their power and ability to be in control.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 170

Original post by Airplanebee2

So where you think think the concepts of equality, diversity, tolerance, equalities commissions, changing words as to not offend, verbal offensives crimes, hate crime police etc came from.

Did they exist before the 60s era?

Some of them did, yes. If you really think equality if a concept that only dates back to the 1960s, then I advise you to take a closer look at a famous French Revolutionary motto. Those which are younger mostly date to noticeably after the 1960s - the phrase "hate crime", for example, originated in the 1980s.

You are claiming that these things are insignificant yet people lose their jobs and get locked up for them?

How can something be insignificant if people lose their jobs and get locked up over it?

Even if I grant this as true, this would be a fallacy of affirming the consequent. "X is happening" does not prove "X is happening because of some conspiratorial school of academic sociology infiltrating everything."

Most of the recent responses on here are acting like those people who tell someone who has studied something for 15 years “I never heard of it so it’s bull” - with absolutely no validation or thought.

No, they're acting like people who have seen similar or identical conspiracy theorist nonsense posted on this forum every couple of weeks for months or even years. Because that's what they are.

Reply 171

ChaoticButterfly

Original post by anarchism101

Some of them did, yes. If you really think equality if a concept that only dates back to the 1960s, then I advise you to take a closer look at a famous French Revolutionary motto. Those which are younger mostly date to noticeably after the 1960s - the phrase "hate crime", for example, originated in the 1980s.

I can't remember who it was but when some historian was asked what he thought the legacy of the French Revolution was he replied "it's too early to tell".

Most politics since then and up to the present day has been a reaction to the ideal of Liberté, égalité, fraternité.

@Airplanebee2

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 172

OP

Original post by anarchism101

No, they're acting like people who have seen similar or identical conspiracy theorist nonsense posted on this forum every couple of weeks for months or even years. Because that's what they are.

1. I completely agree that these concept come from a while back and certain implementation were after the 1960s. What I am referring to is a political tactic around the 1960s where these concepts were weaponised in a way to attack certain people and further a specific political agenda. You can’t really deny that these groups like the 60s French student, radicals, the Frankfurt School, “hippies” etc. didn’t exist. You deny their influence on the present.

Then I ask you, has there ever been such radical social change at any time in human history than the 50 years after these groups made their statements?

2. For the second point all you need to say is correlation is not causation. Let’s talk smart. No its not but there are many many factors that link the two things including time, and the actual people involved like Obama and the Clintons, and the politicisation of he same ideas. It’s hardly an amazing coincidence is it?

3. Oh conspiracy theory - yes when people jump to some prejudices about an idea and use these words to shut it down.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 173

Original post by anarchism101

Even if I grant this as true, this would be a fallacy of affirming the consequent. "X is happening" does not prove "X is happening because of some conspiratorial school of academic sociology infiltrating everything."

No, they're acting like people who have seen similar or identical conspiracy theorist nonsense posted on this forum every couple of weeks for months or even years. Because that's what they are.

These two things. OP simply refuses to accept them and just keeps regurgitating the same thing sometimes with the same words sometimes with different ones.

Reply 174

Original post by Airplanebee2

I completely agree that these concept come from a while back and certain implementation were after the 1960s. What I am referring to is a political tactic around the 1960s where these concepts were weaponised in a way to attack certain people and further a specific political agenda. You can’t really deny that these groups like the 60s French student, radicals, the Frankfurt School, “hippies” etc. didn’t exist. You deny their influence on the present.

Then I ask you, has there ever been such radical social change at any time in human history than the 50 years after these groups made their statements?

Has there ever been such texhnological progress as in the last 50 years? Have we ever been so connected and allowed people to unite and fight things as in the last 50 years? Or even 10-20 years.

And actually yes, the societal change during reformation led to multiple wars over centuries. All because someone posted some thoughts on a church door. I'd say that's a vastly more radical change than now.

The effects of industrialization had a vastly more radical impact on society, too.

And as was said now not just by me above, just because these thoughts somewhat roughly coincide with society changing does in no way shape or form imply they are causing it. And that is why you are nothing but a conspiracy theory, you're attributing something to something else claiming to be on e of the select few that realize it. That's a conspiracy theory.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 175

Original post by Airplanebee2

Then I ask you, has there ever been such radical social change at any time in human history than the 50 years after these groups made their statements?

Yes, several. The 50 years after Luther nailed his theses to the door. The 50 years after Gavrilo Princip shot Franz Ferdinand in Sarajevo. The 50 years after Columbus landed in the new world. The 50 years after a crowd of Parisians stormed the Bastille. The 50 years after Constantine won at the Milvian Bridge. The 50 years after the Arab victories at Yarmouk and al-Qadisiyya. I could go on.

Reply 176

username2950448

Original post by anarchism101

The 50 years after the Arab victories at Yarmouk and al-Qadisiyya. I could go on.

too soon

Reply 177

Original post by Palmyra

too soon

Haha. I can remember when I first learnt 7th Century history being really disappointed that Heraclius and Khosrau fought basically the most epic war of all time only for the Arabs to render it all irrelevant within a decade....

Reply 178

username2950448

Original post by anarchism101

Haha. I can remember when I first learnt 7th Century history being really disappointed that Heraclius and Khosrau fought basically the most epic war of all time only for the Arabs to render it all irrelevant within a decade....

They weakened each other over decades then allied as they both found themselves under a greater threat, then both suffered great losses which changed the course of history

a truly tragic tale

The Mongol Empire's sudden halt in Europe is another historical gem, do you know much about it?

Reply 179

OP