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Sketching curves

I'm having a bit of trouble with this. Any pointers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks :smile:

Q) Consider the following statements and determine whether they are true or false. In either case you should provide an example. (i) If f : R to R is a di fferentiable function that is strictly decreasing everywhere, then f'(x) < 0 for all x in R. (ii) If g : R to R has a maximum at x(subscript 0) = 0 then g'(0) = 0. [R]
Original post by jordanwu
I'm having a bit of trouble with this. Any pointers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks :smile:

Q) Consider the following statements and determine whether they are true or false. In either case you should provide an example. (i) If f : R to R is a di fferentiable function that is strictly decreasing everywhere, then f'(x) < 0 for all x in R. (ii) If g : R to R has a maximum at x(subscript 0) = 0 then g'(0) = 0. [R]


Any thoughts of your own on these? Do you think they are true or false?

I presume that the functions can be any function, and there is no requirement for continuity or differentiability, except as mentioned in your post.
Reply 2
Original post by ghostwalker
Any thoughts of your own on these? Do you think they are true or false?

I presume that the functions can be any function, and there is no requirement for continuity or differentiability, except as mentioned in your post.


Well, for i) I would guess that's false, because from just basic knowledge of curves I know when the first derivative is <0 at a certain x-value it means the function is decreasing at that point, but I'm not sure if you can have an always decreasing function that has f'(x)=0 (inflection point)? As for ii) I think it could be true but I'm not sure
Original post by jordanwu
Well, for i) I would guess that's false, because from just basic knowledge of curves I know when the first derivative is <0 at a certain x-value it means the function is decreasing at that point, but I'm not sure if you can have an always decreasing function that has f'(x)=0 (inflection point)?


You've got it. So, can you think of a simple curve with a point of inflection. Polynomials would be good to look at.


As for ii) I think it could be true but I'm not sure


Unless there is a requirement to only consider differentiable functions, then this would actually be false. Difficult to think of a hint, but consider a discontinuous function.
(edited 6 years ago)
Reply 4
Original post by ghostwalker
You've got it. So, can you think of a simple curve with a point of inflection. Polynomials would be good to look at.



Unless there is a requirement to only consider differentiabley functions, then this would actually be false. Difficult to think of a hint, but consider a discontinuous function.


Something like f(x)= -x^3? And I'm not 100% sure what ii) means
Original post by jordanwu
Something like f(x)= -x^3?


That's the one I was thinking of. :smile:


And I'm not 100% sure what ii) means


How about something like

g:RRg:\mathbb{R}\to \mathbb{R}

with g(x)=0, xR{0}\forall x\in\mathbb{R}\setminus\{0\}
and g(0)=1

Here the derivative isn't even defined at x=0, let alone being equal to 0.
Reply 6
Original post by ghostwalker
That's the one I was thinking of. :smile:



How about something like

g:RRg:\mathbb{R}\to \mathbb{R}

with g(x)=0, xR{0}\forall x\in\mathbb{R}\setminus\{0\}
and g(0)=1

Here the derivative isn't even defined at x=0, let alone being equal to 0.


Sorry, I'm not very familiar with the notation lol
Original post by jordanwu
Sorry, I'm not very familiar with the notation lol


He means a function:

g(x)={0,x01,x=0\displaystyle g(x)= \begin{cases} 0, & x \neq 0 \\ 1, & x = 0 \end{cases}
Original post by jordanwu
Sorry, I'm not very familiar with the notation lol


It's just defining g(x) to be zero everwhere, execpt when x=0, in which case we define it to be 1. The graph would be a straight line alone the x-axis, except at x=0. As RDKGames so nicely LaTex'ed it - PRSOM.

The maximum is clearly 1, at x=0, but it's not even differentiable there.
(edited 6 years ago)
Reply 9
Original post by RDKGames
He means a function:

g(x)={0,x01,x=0\displaystyle g(x)= \begin{cases} 0, & x \neq 0 \\ 1, & x = 0 \end{cases}


Ah ok I see, thanks
Reply 10
Original post by ghostwalker
It's just defining g(x) to be zero everwhere, execpt when x=0, in which case we define it to be 1. The graph would be a straight line alone the x-axis, except at x=0. As RDKGames so nicely LaTex'ed it - PRSOM.

The maximum is clearly 1, at x=0, but it's not even differentiable there.


Hmm I'm having a bit of difficulty picturing it in my head...
Original post by jordanwu
Hmm I'm having a bit of difficulty picturing it in my head...


I was going to upload a picture, but either my machine, or TSR, isn't even giving me the option. So, this crappy text will have to do. The x's mark the graph.


--------------------x------------------
---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Reply 12
Original post by ghostwalker
I was going to upload a picture, but either my machine, or TSR, isn't even giving me the option. So, this crappy text will have to do. The x's mark the graph.


--------------------x------------------
---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Sorry what are the 3 dotted lines? Yeah I think I really need some sort of image lol
Original post by ghostwalker
I was going to upload a picture, but either my machine, or TSR, isn't even giving me the option. So, this crappy text will have to do. The x's mark the graph.


--------------------x------------------
---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


:lol:

Original post by jordanwu
Hmm I'm having a bit of difficulty picturing it in my head...


It's literally just this:



and clearly as ghostwalker said, this has a maximum at x=0x=0, but it is not differentiable at that point.
Reply 14
Original post by RDKGames
:lol:



It's literally just this:



and clearly as ghostwalker said, this has a maximum at x=0x=0, but it is not differentiable at that point.


Ok, I understand now. Thanks for both of your help
Original post by jordanwu
Ok, I understand now. Thanks for both of your help


Somehow I think that that part of the question assumes g is differentiable, in which case the statement would be true. But it's not totally clear.
Original post by IrrationalRoot
Somehow I think that that part of the question assumes g is differentiable, in which case the statement would be true. But it's not totally clear.


Agreed, +rep. Not being able to guess the lecturer's intent with the question, I opted to go for what is there, rather than what I think should be there.

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