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Original post by Junaki
Do you mean like equal with men?
yes
equal to who? men or other women?
I don't know if I agree with yes on this, but you could bring up legal rights in the UK and how they're the same for men and women. Because of legal rights, men and women have the same opportunities for work and stuff. People debating against you would argue that legal rights don't always reflect what happens in society, and even if we have them it's more about changing society views, analysing why women as a whole are earning less and considering whether sexism has an effect on the careers men and women choose. Have a think on how to argue against that, always good to think ahead.
I don't know if I agree with yes on this, but you could bring up legal rights in the UK and how they're the same for men and women. Because of legal rights, men and women have the same opportunities for work and stuff. People debating against you would argue that legal rights don't always reflect what happens in society, and even if we have them it's more about changing society views, analysing why women as a whole are earning less and considering whether sexism has an effect on the careers men and women choose. Have a think on how to argue against that, always good to think ahead.
Biologically,hell no.
In terms of rights,yes.
In terms of rights,yes.
Original post by bobab
need to prepare for a debate on this topic, and im on the yes side. any points i could raise?
edit: equal with men
edit: equal with men
in some ways yes
in other ways no [like typical strength for example]
in terms of legal rights, I would have to say yes, in fact I would say in this country women have more legal rights than men what with them getting priority over any children they have with a man [unless she's declared an unfit mother]
Here are just a few points. For most of these you can come up with a counter-argument which should help balance your debate:
YES points:
- The right to vote in 1918
- 1870 Women were allowed to own their property (The Married Women's Property Act)
- 1907 Women were allowed to be elected onto county councils and can also be elected as mayor (However, at this time men wouldn't vote for women to be in charge of their area, so this wasn't that succesful)
- The Law of Property ACT 1922 allowed both Husband and Wife to inherit property equally
- Equal Pay Act 1970
NO points:
- Women still make 16% less money than their male counterparts
- Women still shoulder more of the household burden (working mothers are more likely going to be troubled by childcare duties than a working father)
- THE TAMPON TAX (however, razor blades are also taxed, at 20% which is 15% more than tampons)
- Women are at greater risk of rape and domestic violence
- Young women face inequality in high school sports
YES points:
- The right to vote in 1918
- 1870 Women were allowed to own their property (The Married Women's Property Act)
- 1907 Women were allowed to be elected onto county councils and can also be elected as mayor (However, at this time men wouldn't vote for women to be in charge of their area, so this wasn't that succesful)
- The Law of Property ACT 1922 allowed both Husband and Wife to inherit property equally
- Equal Pay Act 1970
NO points:
- Women still make 16% less money than their male counterparts
- Women still shoulder more of the household burden (working mothers are more likely going to be troubled by childcare duties than a working father)
- THE TAMPON TAX (however, razor blades are also taxed, at 20% which is 15% more than tampons)
- Women are at greater risk of rape and domestic violence
- Young women face inequality in high school sports
Original post by bobab
need to prepare for a debate on this topic, and im on the yes side. any points i could raise?
edit: equal with men
edit: equal with men
Just to clarify, are you looking at:
Are women equal physically/ in nature to men?
Are women currently equal to men in society (like in terms of income, how they are treated etc)?
Should women be equal to men in society?
Do men and women behave equally/ are they equal morally?
Or is it something else/ a mix?
I would look into statistics on pay, what professions people go into, how often men vs women get custody of kids in divorce situations, how many organisations there are to support men vs women, suicide rates etc.
You can also look into the biology of men vs women. Essentially men are wired more to be active and strong (hunter sort of role) and women are wired more to be caring and multitasking (home-maker/ mum kinda role). That doesn't mean that men or women are stronger or weaker, but that they have that base.
You could also look into some things like pain tolerance, ability to multi-task and other little things like that.
Remember to prepare for reacting to opposite arguments too. Make yourself aware of some of the main points against your argument and how to shut them down.
Hope that helps.
Original post by Kindred
Just to clarify, are you looking at:
Are women equal physically/ in nature to men?
Are women currently equal to men in society (like in terms of income, how they are treated etc)?
Should women be equal to men in society?
Do men and women behave equally/ are they equal morally?
Or is it something else/ a mix?
I would look into statistics on pay, what professions people go into, how often men vs women get custody of kids in divorce situations, how many organisations there are to support men vs women, suicide rates etc.
You can also look into the biology of men vs women. Essentially men are wired more to be active and strong (hunter sort of role) and women are wired more to be caring and multitasking (home-maker/ mum kinda role). That doesn't mean that men or women are stronger or weaker, but that they have that base.
You could also look into some things like pain tolerance, ability to multi-task and other little things like that.
Remember to prepare for reacting to opposite arguments too. Make yourself aware of some of the main points against your argument and how to shut them down.
Hope that helps.
Are women equal physically/ in nature to men?
Are women currently equal to men in society (like in terms of income, how they are treated etc)?
Should women be equal to men in society?
Do men and women behave equally/ are they equal morally?
Or is it something else/ a mix?
I would look into statistics on pay, what professions people go into, how often men vs women get custody of kids in divorce situations, how many organisations there are to support men vs women, suicide rates etc.
You can also look into the biology of men vs women. Essentially men are wired more to be active and strong (hunter sort of role) and women are wired more to be caring and multitasking (home-maker/ mum kinda role). That doesn't mean that men or women are stronger or weaker, but that they have that base.
You could also look into some things like pain tolerance, ability to multi-task and other little things like that.
Remember to prepare for reacting to opposite arguments too. Make yourself aware of some of the main points against your argument and how to shut them down.
Hope that helps.
this does help. i was talking about equality in terms of society, but it might be helpful to have some biological explanations for particular things
Original post by Junaki
Here are just a few points. For most of these you can come up with a counter-argument which should help balance your debate:
YES points:
- The right to vote in 1918
- 1870 Women were allowed to own their property (The Married Women's Property Act)
- 1907 Women were allowed to be elected onto county councils and can also be elected as mayor (However, at this time men wouldn't vote for women to be in charge of their area, so this wasn't that succesful)
- The Law of Property ACT 1922 allowed both Husband and Wife to inherit property equally
- Equal Pay Act 1970
NO points:
- Women still make 16% less money than their male counterparts
- Women still shoulder more of the household burden (working mothers are more likely going to be troubled by childcare duties than a working father)
- THE TAMPON TAX (however, razor blades are also taxed, at 20% which is 15% more than tampons)
- Women are at greater risk of rape and domestic violence
- Young women face inequality in high school sports
YES points:
- The right to vote in 1918
- 1870 Women were allowed to own their property (The Married Women's Property Act)
- 1907 Women were allowed to be elected onto county councils and can also be elected as mayor (However, at this time men wouldn't vote for women to be in charge of their area, so this wasn't that succesful)
- The Law of Property ACT 1922 allowed both Husband and Wife to inherit property equally
- Equal Pay Act 1970
NO points:
- Women still make 16% less money than their male counterparts
- Women still shoulder more of the household burden (working mothers are more likely going to be troubled by childcare duties than a working father)
- THE TAMPON TAX (however, razor blades are also taxed, at 20% which is 15% more than tampons)
- Women are at greater risk of rape and domestic violence
- Young women face inequality in high school sports
ill try to remember these
Original post by bobab
ill try to remember these
Good Luck ♥
Original post by bobab
this does help. i was talking about equality in terms of society, but it might be helpful to have some biological explanations for particular things
Glad I could help.
Yeah using some biology could help give context and justify some things things like a divide on certain professions and how sometime a difference can still be equal.
Years ago, i watched a telly show on this topic in the states. The format was that in the studio, the audience area was built with space between the rows, so that the MC could walk among the audience. Additionally, it was brightly lighted, so you could see who he was talking to clearly. He started out by saying that he was going to describe a job, and if anyone in the audience had ever held such a job, they should stand up. If he started describing a job that no longer was similar to any job they had ever held, they should sit down. The audience was about 50/50 men/woman.
The first job was one where: "you could be called out at any hour of the day or night. You had no idea when you would return - it could be days or weeks later. You would have no "crew rest" provisions, you might have to wear your clothes the entire time. type of job was emergency maintenance personnel for power, communications facility, radar site. 50 or 60 stood up, they were all male.
The second was a job where: "you were at risk of physical assault at any time. Weapons could be used. Your working hours would generally be 40 to 60 hrs/week, but in an emergency could be longer. Job looking for was: jail guard, corrections officer, fire personnel. About 45 stood up. Only one female.
Third job: You work at a remote location. It requires a helicopter to reach. Once there, you cannot leave until your 3 month 'shift' is over. You work 12 hrs/day, 7 days a week. There are no shopping, recreational, or leisure facilities available. The work area is oily, and vibrates constantly, with some noise. Occasional fires & explosions have damaged or destroyed these work facilities, with some loss of life. The housing provides bunks for the off duty staff - i.e. you share a bunk with another worker. Bath & shower facilities are shared - team shower, etc. Job was: Oil drilling platform worker. 55 respondents, no females.
Fourth job: You work in a secured facility. You are part of the nursing medical staff. The patients cannot leave the facility, and occasionally become violent with little or no warning. They are often on medication which has somewhat unpredictable results.. Occasionally, they must be confined in 'padded rooms'. This often requires a number of nurses and orderlies to accomplish. Job was: Nurse in psychiatric prison hospital. Surprisingly, about 1/4 of the respondents were female - although they were well built young ladies who looked pretty strong.
Now these jobs all have to be done. If you offered only the basic wage, you could not get anyone to do them. Many women (with good reason) would not want them at any price. This is why i feel that you have to carefully consider the work conditions and risks before considering salary. Most peeps don't do this. Cheers.
The first job was one where: "you could be called out at any hour of the day or night. You had no idea when you would return - it could be days or weeks later. You would have no "crew rest" provisions, you might have to wear your clothes the entire time. type of job was emergency maintenance personnel for power, communications facility, radar site. 50 or 60 stood up, they were all male.
The second was a job where: "you were at risk of physical assault at any time. Weapons could be used. Your working hours would generally be 40 to 60 hrs/week, but in an emergency could be longer. Job looking for was: jail guard, corrections officer, fire personnel. About 45 stood up. Only one female.
Third job: You work at a remote location. It requires a helicopter to reach. Once there, you cannot leave until your 3 month 'shift' is over. You work 12 hrs/day, 7 days a week. There are no shopping, recreational, or leisure facilities available. The work area is oily, and vibrates constantly, with some noise. Occasional fires & explosions have damaged or destroyed these work facilities, with some loss of life. The housing provides bunks for the off duty staff - i.e. you share a bunk with another worker. Bath & shower facilities are shared - team shower, etc. Job was: Oil drilling platform worker. 55 respondents, no females.
Fourth job: You work in a secured facility. You are part of the nursing medical staff. The patients cannot leave the facility, and occasionally become violent with little or no warning. They are often on medication which has somewhat unpredictable results.. Occasionally, they must be confined in 'padded rooms'. This often requires a number of nurses and orderlies to accomplish. Job was: Nurse in psychiatric prison hospital. Surprisingly, about 1/4 of the respondents were female - although they were well built young ladies who looked pretty strong.
Now these jobs all have to be done. If you offered only the basic wage, you could not get anyone to do them. Many women (with good reason) would not want them at any price. This is why i feel that you have to carefully consider the work conditions and risks before considering salary. Most peeps don't do this. Cheers.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by bobab
need to prepare for a debate on this topic, and im on the yes side. any points i could raise?
edit: equal with men
edit: equal with men
the uk have a gender pay gap of 18.1%
95% of world leaders are men
FGM still happens
child marriage still happens
a man accused of sexually assaulting 16 women was voted into the most powerful job in the world
female rape victims are still asked what they wore/how much they drank
only heart attack symptoms that affect men are public knowledge: women have died because of this
evidence that long-term use of the pill caused depression and anxiety was hidden from public knowledge for decades; trials for male hormonal contraceptives were stopped because of adverse effects to their emotional health
ME is not taken seriously as a disability because 70% of sufferers are women
1/3 trans women are murdered
this is literally just off the top of my head, there's so much more
women have been systematically oppressed and silenced for thousands of years: history has literally been written by men, art, music, science, philosophy, politics, have been dictated almost soley by men for thousands of year. it's still happening today, in every corner of the world. look into countries like saudi arabia. look into the uk. you can't escape it.
Original post by Junaki
Here are just a few points. For most of these you can come up with a counter-argument which should help balance your debate:
YES points:
- The right to vote in 1918
- 1870 Women were allowed to own their property (The Married Women's Property Act)
- 1907 Women were allowed to be elected onto county councils and can also be elected as mayor (However, at this time men wouldn't vote for women to be in charge of their area, so this wasn't that succesful)
- The Law of Property ACT 1922 allowed both Husband and Wife to inherit property equally
- Equal Pay Act 1970
NO points:
- Women still make 16% less money than their male counterparts
- Women still shoulder more of the household burden (working mothers are more likely going to be troubled by childcare duties than a working father)
- THE TAMPON TAX (however, razor blades are also taxed, at 20% which is 15% more than tampons)
- Women are at greater risk of rape and domestic violence
- Young women face inequality in high school sports
YES points:
- The right to vote in 1918
- 1870 Women were allowed to own their property (The Married Women's Property Act)
- 1907 Women were allowed to be elected onto county councils and can also be elected as mayor (However, at this time men wouldn't vote for women to be in charge of their area, so this wasn't that succesful)
- The Law of Property ACT 1922 allowed both Husband and Wife to inherit property equally
- Equal Pay Act 1970
NO points:
- Women still make 16% less money than their male counterparts
- Women still shoulder more of the household burden (working mothers are more likely going to be troubled by childcare duties than a working father)
- THE TAMPON TAX (however, razor blades are also taxed, at 20% which is 15% more than tampons)
- Women are at greater risk of rape and domestic violence
- Young women face inequality in high school sports
may I just add that while women may be at greater risk of rape and domestic violence, they are more likely to be taken seriously than men and it's easier for them to come forward- nearly 50% of domestic violence victims are male but there's so much stigma about men coming forward that it skews the figures and makes it seem like it's all against females
Original post by jupiiter
may I just add that while women may be at greater risk of rape and domestic violence, they are more likely to be taken seriously than men and it's easier for them to come forward- nearly 50% of domestic violence victims are male but there's so much stigma about men coming forward that it skews the figures and makes it seem like it's all against females
This is a good point
Economically: Yes
Socially: No, and I don't think they ever will as men will always have an inherent predisposition towards women, which they do not hold towards themselves or other men. Buuuut I think this is the same for women towards men. In our minds we will always think a certain way about the opposite sex that is different to our own, but in terms of individual people.
When dealing with larger things, such as rights, politics and economics in terms of large sections of the population, it is equal nowadays because any biases are quite obvious and are shutdown. This is however not the case in our own heads and just our own heads, so socially men and women will not be in equal, in terms of how we act as individual people, but when dealing with the grand scheme of things, thankfully yes.
Socially: No, and I don't think they ever will as men will always have an inherent predisposition towards women, which they do not hold towards themselves or other men. Buuuut I think this is the same for women towards men. In our minds we will always think a certain way about the opposite sex that is different to our own, but in terms of individual people.
When dealing with larger things, such as rights, politics and economics in terms of large sections of the population, it is equal nowadays because any biases are quite obvious and are shutdown. This is however not the case in our own heads and just our own heads, so socially men and women will not be in equal, in terms of how we act as individual people, but when dealing with the grand scheme of things, thankfully yes.
Original post by nverjvlev
the uk have a gender pay gap of 18.1%
95% of world leaders are men
FGM still happens
child marriage still happens
a man accused of sexually assaulting 16 women was voted into the most powerful job in the world
female rape victims are still asked what they wore/how much they drank
only heart attack symptoms that affect men are public knowledge: women have died because of this
evidence that long-term use of the pill caused depression and anxiety was hidden from public knowledge for decades; trials for male hormonal contraceptives were stopped because of adverse effects to their emotional health
ME is not taken seriously as a disability because 70% of sufferers are women
1/3 trans women are murdered
this is literally just off the top of my head, there's so much more
women have been systematically oppressed and silenced for thousands of years: history has literally been written by men, art, music, science, philosophy, politics, have been dictated almost soley by men for thousands of year. it's still happening today, in every corner of the world. look into countries like saudi arabia. look into the uk. you can't escape it.
the uk have a gender pay gap of 18.1%
95% of world leaders are men
FGM still happens
child marriage still happens
a man accused of sexually assaulting 16 women was voted into the most powerful job in the world
female rape victims are still asked what they wore/how much they drank
only heart attack symptoms that affect men are public knowledge: women have died because of this
evidence that long-term use of the pill caused depression and anxiety was hidden from public knowledge for decades; trials for male hormonal contraceptives were stopped because of adverse effects to their emotional health
ME is not taken seriously as a disability because 70% of sufferers are women
1/3 trans women are murdered
this is literally just off the top of my head, there's so much more
women have been systematically oppressed and silenced for thousands of years: history has literally been written by men, art, music, science, philosophy, politics, have been dictated almost soley by men for thousands of year. it's still happening today, in every corner of the world. look into countries like saudi arabia. look into the uk. you can't escape it.
Lets check the facts here (from a UK prospective):
1) Wage Gap exists but not for the reasons you are mentioning it. The reasons for it are: part-time employment, type of occupation, having and caring for children - office of national statistics.
2) Not really an issue in the UK - I can't speak for other countries though
3) Illegal to carry out FGM in the UK since 1985 thus rendering prosecution issue and not so much an inequality issue.
4) Illegal to carry out child marriage in the UK since 2014 thus rendering prosecution issue and not so much an inequality issue.
5) As you said, they are just accusation - the whole innocent until proven guilty thing.
6) This is called an investigation... If both parties where drunk, it is possible consent was mutual yet was forgotten the morning after.
7) Just because one fact is more well known that another doesn't equal inequality.
8) I don't nearly know enough about this subject - you can have this one.
9) Most likely not because it affect females more than males, probably because there was a debate as to whether it was actually an illness at all.
10) Couldn't find that statistic. Please state your source.
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