A question for Pro EU People?
28 countries, soon to be 27 all have to agree and "follow" the same laws. Although each has a different culture and language, how does this work in your mind?
This is a first so it could work. Yugoslavia, the Roman empire, the holy Roman empire, the Austrian and Hungarian empire, the Ottoman and so on were all a complete success.
Just been to Italy. Glad to see they follow healthy and safety laws. Up to standards with Germany and UK.
This is a first so it could work. Yugoslavia, the Roman empire, the holy Roman empire, the Austrian and Hungarian empire, the Ottoman and so on were all a complete success.
Just been to Italy. Glad to see they follow healthy and safety laws. Up to standards with Germany and UK.
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Because many of today's states are amalgamations of places with distinct linguistic, legal and cultural differences. You mention some that didn't work, without considering the many that did.
It's also worth considering that some of those empires you mention lasted centuries. I don't think anyone expects states will exist forever. One day, Britain and England will be just as forgotten concepts as Wessex and Normandy.
It's also worth considering that some of those empires you mention lasted centuries. I don't think anyone expects states will exist forever. One day, Britain and England will be just as forgotten concepts as Wessex and Normandy.
Original post by L i b
Because many of today's states are amalgamations of places with distinct linguistic, legal and cultural differences. You mention some that didn't work, without considering the many that did.
It's also worth considering that some of those empires you mention lasted centuries. I don't think anyone expects states will exist forever. One day, Britain and England will be just as forgotten concepts as Wessex and Normandy.
It's also worth considering that some of those empires you mention lasted centuries. I don't think anyone expects states will exist forever. One day, Britain and England will be just as forgotten concepts as Wessex and Normandy.
I agree with you on the second point yes. But most these empires would of been easier to control, just use force. And well as for information we have loads of it today so we can't critisie and think more critically.
I disagree with your first point. They are not, I was in Italy and the coach driver while driving answered his phone with no hands free kit. They don't give a dam with something there. The cultural differences are massive.
Let me ask do you have the same house hold rules as your relatives? Like my mum will scream bloody murder if I wear shoes in the house. cousins are alot more relaxed.
Also the main issue that will cause problems in the EU is wealth. I was in Germany last year and I gave some colleagues a lift to the airport and the two Polish guys asked me how much I earn. I was reluctant to say so. I asked why. They said cos it's unfair for the same job are German counter parts can earn twice as much and there are no boarders.
Original post by Keepwishing
I agree with you on the second point yes. But most these empires would of been easier to control, just use force. And well as for information we have loads of it today so we can't critisie and think more critically.
I disagree with your first point. They are not, I was in Italy and the coach driver while driving answered his phone with no hands free kit. They don't give a dam with something there. The cultural differences are massive.
Let me ask do you have the same house hold rules as your relatives? Like my mum will scream bloody murder if I wear shoes in the house. cousins are alot more relaxed.
Also the main issue that will cause problems in the EU is wealth. I was in Germany last year and I gave some colleagues a lift to the airport and the two Polish guys asked me how much I earn. I was reluctant to say so. I asked why. They said cos it's unfair for the same job are German counter parts can earn twice as much and there are no boarders.
I disagree with your first point. They are not, I was in Italy and the coach driver while driving answered his phone with no hands free kit. They don't give a dam with something there. The cultural differences are massive.
Let me ask do you have the same house hold rules as your relatives? Like my mum will scream bloody murder if I wear shoes in the house. cousins are alot more relaxed.
Also the main issue that will cause problems in the EU is wealth. I was in Germany last year and I gave some colleagues a lift to the airport and the two Polish guys asked me how much I earn. I was reluctant to say so. I asked why. They said cos it's unfair for the same job are German counter parts can earn twice as much and there are no boarders.
I feel it is more than slightly moronic to use the example of a single bus driver using his phone at the wheel as a reason to bash European integration. Especially since A LOT of people all over europe do it despite various bans.
Original post by Keepwishing
I disagree with your first point. They are not, I was in Italy and the coach driver while driving answered his phone with no hands free kit. They don't give a dam with something there. The cultural differences are massive.
Let me ask do you have the same house hold rules as your relatives? Like my mum will scream bloody murder if I wear shoes in the house. cousins are alot more relaxed.
Let me ask do you have the same house hold rules as your relatives? Like my mum will scream bloody murder if I wear shoes in the house. cousins are alot more relaxed.
I think we're coming at this from the opposite direction. To take the Italy example, my point is that Italy itself is a politically constructed concept that arose from the unification of several previously distinct entities.
Italian identity has a long history - but it was one largely developed as a response to external considerations. But the Italian state finally swept away the pre-existing nations. It's not to suggest that Italy isn't culturally distinct, it's to suggest that states are made, formed and solidified by sweeping away these distinctions.
Also the main issue that will cause problems in the EU is wealth. I was in Germany last year and I gave some colleagues a lift to the airport and the two Polish guys asked me how much I earn. I was reluctant to say so. I asked why. They said cos it's unfair for the same job are German counter parts can earn twice as much and there are no boarders.
One of the problems with the EU is that it expanded rapidly without real economic harmonisation. The single currency made these strains more acute. If they were really going to attempt a project like that, it should have been done over the course of a century or two, not a few decades.
Original post by Keepwishing
28 countries, soon to be 27 all have to agree and "follow" the same laws. Although each has a different culture and language, how does this work in your mind?
I think this is the first misconception. The EU don't follow the same laws. Sure, there are some who think they should but at present they don't. They do however share a common market and almost all of the legislation passed is required to attempt to give equal access to companies trading across Europe.
As for health and safety - we have always had our own health and safety laws.
Original post by Keepwishing
28 countries, soon to be 27 all have to agree and "follow" the same laws. Although each has a different culture and language, how does this work in your mind?
This is a first so it could work. Yugoslavia, the Roman empire, the holy Roman empire, the Austrian and Hungarian empire, the Ottoman and so on were all a complete success.
Just been to Italy. Glad to see they follow healthy and safety laws. Up to standards with Germany and UK.
This is a first so it could work. Yugoslavia, the Roman empire, the holy Roman empire, the Austrian and Hungarian empire, the Ottoman and so on were all a complete success.
Just been to Italy. Glad to see they follow healthy and safety laws. Up to standards with Germany and UK.
You have no sense of history, but then brexiters are usually ignorant of anything apart from jingo and bingo.
Original post by So-Sarah
How does forcing 28 nations together turn out to be anything but bad?
Who forced them?
Original post by So-Sarah
the liberal elite of their countries
Planted there of course by the EU !
Original post by Keepwishing
28 countries, soon to be 27 all have to agree and "follow" the same laws. Although each has a different culture and language, how does this work in your mind?
This is a first so it could work. Yugoslavia, the Roman empire, the holy Roman empire, the Austrian and Hungarian empire, the Ottoman and so on were all a complete success.
Just been to Italy. Glad to see they follow healthy and safety laws. Up to standards with Germany and UK.
This is a first so it could work. Yugoslavia, the Roman empire, the holy Roman empire, the Austrian and Hungarian empire, the Ottoman and so on were all a complete success.
Just been to Italy. Glad to see they follow healthy and safety laws. Up to standards with Germany and UK.
We agree to follow laws with unanimous consent from the respective national governments.
You're talking about different cultures and languages as though each country is homogeneous (culturally and linguistically) and that no country is in any way similar (culturally and linguistically) which, in Europe, is simply not the case. I, as someone from a rural part of Northern England, quite possibly have more in common culturally with someone from rural Ireland than I do with people from London.
Actually, just thinking about it more...I think I have more friends from the EU than I do from London. While I still retain my identity of being "English", I am also "British" and "European" (and "human"). I don't care to put an order to these identities. They're all important. Having said that, the only flag I hang in my house is the EU flag.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by L i b
Because many of today's states are amalgamations of places with distinct linguistic, legal and cultural differences. You mention some that didn't work, without considering the many that did.
It's also worth considering that some of those empires you mention lasted centuries. I don't think anyone expects states will exist forever. One day, Britain and England will be just as forgotten concepts as Wessex and Normandy.
It's also worth considering that some of those empires you mention lasted centuries. I don't think anyone expects states will exist forever. One day, Britain and England will be just as forgotten concepts as Wessex and Normandy.
god you're still here. i remember you when i was on TSR pre-university on my old account whose details i can't even remember
The Euro, as a common currency has been a disaster. It just doesn't "fit" all those diverse countries.
Similarly you can't dump 28 diverse countries into a pot and hope to achieve anything but a total loss of tradition and culture and diversity.
The truth is the entire shebang is about control. Globalists have a hard time of it trying to control lots of differing countries full of people with differing values, backgrounds, traditions and cultures.
So their strategy is to strip away all those values, cultures and traditions from people to leave them as a common "race" of "Nothing people". A generic group of dumbed down, defrocked pacifist Sheeple who won't rock the boat and will all cow tow to the overriding tyranny.
The EU is just the beginning of the age old One World Government which Common Purpose has been building for years.
It's a travesty.
What makes Europe great is that diversity of culture, tradition and values.
I go to Spain and meet strong, hard working and very friendly people, who've lived through the Franco era. They have fabulous food and friendship, family life is at the heart of their society.
I go to Greece and meet a much more laid back society but which is full of solidarity.
I go to Norway, Sweden etc and find friendly people with masses of tradition and strong values.
and so it goes on.
Europe itself is fabulous. Diverse, interesting, a place you could spend a lifetime visiting and understanding and immersing oneself in.
Why would anyone want to destroy that?
Why would you attempt to strip people of their nationality, identity, their cultures and traditions and inherent values?
Different is good.
It is an utter travesty to lay bare all these cultures and in Borg-like fashion just assimilate them into the EU Collective to become ultimately "nothing people" who over time lose all connection to those past traditions and cultures.
This is where the EU fails miserably.
The purpose of the EU is control, plain and simple. Control by a small elite group who are effectively neutering all the EU members drip by drip over time.
Thank goodness the UK had the balls to stand up and say "No!"
You are not stripping us of our identity, culture, values and traditions. Enough is enough.
The Common Market was fine but the power mad Common Purpose megalomaniacs just used that as the first corner stone of their One World Government Empire.
The EU could and should collapse. It is imo rotten to the core.
Doesn't matter how difficult it becomes to leave
Doesn't matter how much it hurts UK people
It has to be done, it will be done and ultimately years down the line will prove to be the best thing that ever happened to the UK.
We would rather live less well off in freedom than be assimilated and neutered into the EU collective.
Similarly you can't dump 28 diverse countries into a pot and hope to achieve anything but a total loss of tradition and culture and diversity.
The truth is the entire shebang is about control. Globalists have a hard time of it trying to control lots of differing countries full of people with differing values, backgrounds, traditions and cultures.
So their strategy is to strip away all those values, cultures and traditions from people to leave them as a common "race" of "Nothing people". A generic group of dumbed down, defrocked pacifist Sheeple who won't rock the boat and will all cow tow to the overriding tyranny.
The EU is just the beginning of the age old One World Government which Common Purpose has been building for years.
It's a travesty.
What makes Europe great is that diversity of culture, tradition and values.
I go to Spain and meet strong, hard working and very friendly people, who've lived through the Franco era. They have fabulous food and friendship, family life is at the heart of their society.
I go to Greece and meet a much more laid back society but which is full of solidarity.
I go to Norway, Sweden etc and find friendly people with masses of tradition and strong values.
and so it goes on.
Europe itself is fabulous. Diverse, interesting, a place you could spend a lifetime visiting and understanding and immersing oneself in.
Why would anyone want to destroy that?
Why would you attempt to strip people of their nationality, identity, their cultures and traditions and inherent values?
Different is good.
It is an utter travesty to lay bare all these cultures and in Borg-like fashion just assimilate them into the EU Collective to become ultimately "nothing people" who over time lose all connection to those past traditions and cultures.
This is where the EU fails miserably.
The purpose of the EU is control, plain and simple. Control by a small elite group who are effectively neutering all the EU members drip by drip over time.
Thank goodness the UK had the balls to stand up and say "No!"
You are not stripping us of our identity, culture, values and traditions. Enough is enough.
The Common Market was fine but the power mad Common Purpose megalomaniacs just used that as the first corner stone of their One World Government Empire.
The EU could and should collapse. It is imo rotten to the core.
Doesn't matter how difficult it becomes to leave
Doesn't matter how much it hurts UK people
It has to be done, it will be done and ultimately years down the line will prove to be the best thing that ever happened to the UK.
We would rather live less well off in freedom than be assimilated and neutered into the EU collective.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Keepwishing
All nations have always followed the same "laws" made on an international level. They were called international treaties. International law has been around for millenia.
There have always been laws made at the international level, law made at the nation state level, laws made at state/regional level and laws made at regional level.
This is true in the UK - where we are subject to global international law (such as international treaties on the law of the sea, and UN resolutions), state regional law (such as EU laws), national laws, national regional laws (such as in Scotland and Wales) and laws made at local levels (such as by-laws issued by councils).
The question is which laws should be made at what level.
Original post by ByEeek
I think this is the first misconception. The EU don't follow the same laws. Sure, there are some who think they should but at present they don't. They do however share a common market and almost all of the legislation passed is required to attempt to give equal access to companies trading across Europe.
G
As for health and safety - we have always had our own health and safety laws.
G
As for health and safety - we have always had our own health and safety laws.
Yes they do. What's the point of the EU commission and parliament making optional laws.
Ffs where have you been. Good dam students. You guys are useless.
Original post by Maker
You have no sense of history, but then brexiters are usually ignorant of anything apart from jingo and bingo.
First off all you have not made an argument against my statement but a strawman fallacy. And attacking some one on an personal level is a sign of ignorance, it's something a lot of self declared "intelligent" remainers do.
My parentsts grew up in Yugoslavia. Ask them amount forming a homogeneous state from several cultures that don't mix. Ask them how fair that society was and how there was no tension.
Original post by Napp
I feel it is more than slightly moronic to use the example of a single bus driver using his phone at the wheel as a reason to bash European integration. Especially since A LOT of people all over europe do it despite various bans.
Go to Italy and Spain and let me know how similar there cultures are to the UK.
As for integration, I'd prefer to use the word more monies. Do you think alot of these people would bother with integrating into a new culture if there home country was at the same wealth level as the UK and Germany.
Take for example polish people, how many would move to the UK for integration if they were paid the same salary as on Poland.
Some would for the adventure. But not many.
Original post by Keepwishing
Go to Italy and Spain and let me know how similar there cultures are to the UK.
As for integration, I'd prefer to use the word more monies. Do you think alot of these people would bother with integrating into a new culture if there home country was at the same wealth level as the UK and Germany.
Take for example polish people, how many would move to the UK for integration if they were paid the same salary as on Poland.
Some would for the adventure. But not many.
As for integration, I'd prefer to use the word more monies. Do you think alot of these people would bother with integrating into a new culture if there home country was at the same wealth level as the UK and Germany.
Take for example polish people, how many would move to the UK for integration if they were paid the same salary as on Poland.
Some would for the adventure. But not many.
Well with particular reference to Spain i guess it really depends where you go there - I hear the Coastal areas are very British these days.
Either wayi'd maintain the Italian culture is far superior to Britains culture these days, far more relaxed attitude to life.
As for the last bit - what point are you trying to make exactly? Other than a damning indictment of British emigrants to Europe who refuse to adapt or learn the language ?
Whats your issue with Polish people? Damn hard workers and a nice bunch. Not to mention without them our fruit industry and building industry would collapse.
Original post by jacketpotato
All nations have always followed the same "laws" made on an international level. They were called international treaties. International law has been around for millenia.
There have always been laws made at the international level, law made at the nation state level, laws made at state/regional level and laws made at regional level.
This is true in the UK - where we are subject to global international law (such as international treaties on the law of the sea, and UN resolutions), state regional law (such as EU laws), national laws, national regional laws (such as in Scotland and Wales) and laws made at local levels (such as by-laws issued by councils).
The question is which laws should be made at what level.
There have always been laws made at the international level, law made at the nation state level, laws made at state/regional level and laws made at regional level.
This is true in the UK - where we are subject to global international law (such as international treaties on the law of the sea, and UN resolutions), state regional law (such as EU laws), national laws, national regional laws (such as in Scotland and Wales) and laws made at local levels (such as by-laws issued by councils).
The question is which laws should be made at what level.
Do Spanish fisherman respect these laws and don't enter waters on the west coast of Africa that they are not permitted to fish in.
How many of these laws does America follow? I'm sure spying on other governments is not allowed.
Law's don't work unless they are enforced. Can't imagine Russia or China giving a dam about most these laws.
How many of these international laws impact or day to day life? How many EU laws impact or day to day life.
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