This war is primarily driven by the worrying rise in Russian nationalism that Putin is facilitating. Yes, they're not fans of the EU, but it is impossible to suggest that Ukraine seeking EU membership of its own volition is a legitimate reason for war. It is a product of Russian expansionism and nationalism more than anything else

Reply 7

Keepwishing

Original post by JoeHill00

I disagree. I believe the EU poked and pushed and some related to protect there intrest.

https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2017/11/economist-explains-20

Reply 8

Keepwishing

Original post by Keepwishing

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/voices/letters/david-cameron-eu-nato-war-in-europe-letters-a7022806.html%3famp

Well most people's argument is the EU bought peace in Europe.

Opinion and facts are complete different things. Would you base your medical treatment option on opinions or fact backed by scientific data.

Reply 9

Trinculo

It's farcical. If any body brought peace in Europe, it would be NATO.

The EU didn't exist until 1992, before that, the EEC wasn't anything like we imagine the EU to be now. There was no freedom of labour, no common currency or monetary policy and only very limited single market type stuff. The idea of a European superstate was in the contemplation of some of the originators of the idea, but no one took it seriously.

Post Maastricht - what really changed? Honestly, no-one cared about freedom of movement until enlargement. People from France, Germany, Spain, Britain, Italy, Holland - had always moved around and worked more or less where they liked. It wasn't until the accession of the former Eastern Bloc countries that new waves of significant movement happened. And was that really a product of the EU, or was it more a result of the fall of the Iron Curtain?

On the topic of peace - I would ask how. I would like to know how the EU has brought peace to Europe, rather than just happening to exist in a time when war between the main European countries would have been exceptionally unlikely. On the point of Ukraine - sure, that's a thing. The EU is just standing by and watching, just like they did with the Former Yugoslavia. I've said this before, but pretty much the first thing that happened from the time the EU came into being was that there was a civil war on the doorstep on the EU which was powerless to do anything - that just wasn't part of any of the function of the EU (at the time). Of course, now the EU has finally come clean and started its own army - something that Europhile after Europhile has publicy said would never happen, and was crazy talk - well the EU army is a thing now.

It's really not hard. Anyone who has done GCSE History or watched a bit of TV can tell you that peace in Europe and the EU are completely unrelated concepts, but people want to believe in the cult of the EU so badly that they'll make up anything.

Reply 10

SHallowvale

Original post by Keepwishing

The EU brought peace between the western/central European countries, France, Germany, etc.

Ukraine is outside of the EU as is Russia.

Reply 11

Keepwishing

Original post by SHallowvale

The EU brought peace between the western/central European countries, France, Germany, etc.

Ukraine is outside of the EU as is Russia.

Please read my argument. If I ask a pro EU person did the EU bring peace to Europe how many would correct me and go well technically it's between Germany and France. Also most EU people's argument is this exact point. Hence the link to the independent.

As for other place that were once at war and now at peace like China and Japan they did it without no EU. So it's still an invalid argument bas people ignore America and its impact.

Reply 12

SHallowvale

Original post by Keepwishing

When people say "The EU brought peace to Europe" they are referring to the countries that were at war in WW2 and prior. France and Germany are a prime example. Put more correctly, the EU (or the EEC or whatever it was known as before) brought peace between it's members.

Ukraine is outside of that.

China and Japan have completely separate histories to that of European countries so the two things aren't comparable.

Reply 13

Gwilym101

Original post by Keepwishing

So what lead to this war? EU expansion or bad Russians?

So stop saying the EU bought peace to Europe.

As people have already stated neither Ukraine or Russia are in the EU.

The early versions of what would become the EU were literally designed around ensuring peace in Europe post WW-II, pooling coal and steel production so it was financially impossible for european countries to wage war on one another.

[video="youtube;GfN05WB_rYw"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfN05WB_rYw[/video]

Reply 14

Keepwishing

Original post by SHallowvale

Please read my argument. When people quote this they are not this specific. They say the EU has Bought peace to Europe.

Reply 15

Keepwishing

Original post by SHallowvale

K po

How many people say the EU bought peace in the EU nations except for Greece. My argument is for people to stop saying the EU bought peace in Europe when infact it made things worse for some place like Ukraine.

Reply 16

Keepwishing

Original post by Gwilym101

What do people say? They EU has Bought PC to Europe. Pls read the title. Iv asked for people not to say that. Thanks to the EU expansion people are not at war with Russia.

Reply 17

Napp

Original post by Keepwishing

Seeing as the Ukraine isnt part of the EU and few consider it will ever be part of it your point is somewhat redundant.

Reply 18

Napp

Original post by Trinculo

It's farcical. If any body brought peace in Europe, it would be NATO.
.

A military alliance constantly threatening nuclear war? Yeah very peaceful :rolleyes:

Reply 19

Dez

Original post by Keepwishing

What do people say? They EU has Bought PC to Europe. Pls read the title. Iv asked for people not to say that. Thanks to the EU expansion people are not at war with Russia.

So what you're saying is that if the EU somehow didn't exist, Ukraine would now be a peaceful paradise land full of sunshine and flowers?

The conflict in Ukraine is down to many factors, blaming the EU for it is massively simplistic at best.