Is the pay for nurses that bad?
I want to go Into because I’ve always wanted to become it. That or a counsellor. But I also want money to buy nice clothes, a car, pay my bills and buy gifts for others. And everyone’s is saying that there are nurses who who have 2 other jobs. Like could it really be that bad that you need two other jobs to provide for your family? I want to earn 60-70k one day. Can I do that by being a nurse practitioner? Again I want to do become those because I’ve met nurses and been in their environment and I see myself doing it. But I don’t want to be struggling with money.
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What I would do is do a search for job vacancies for nurses in the area you hope to one day work (or random areas just to get a feel) and look at the salary being offered I believe once qualified you can apply for nursing positions at band 5 and then work up to band 8 (not 100% but think its about that) so you could look at the salary being offered for a band 5 compared to salary being offered for a band 8 position and get a feel for the salary you could start with and what you could work up to
the general thing is you don't go into nursing for the money. it is low paid for the amount of work and responsibility involved.
people go into nursing for the caring side side not the financial.
people go into nursing for the caring side side not the financial.
One of my daughters is a Senor Ward Sister on the Cardiac Ward at our local hospital. There is a shortage of nurses and, as a result, she has to carry a bleeper 24/7 and be on call. She is not paid for 24/7 on call.
She also does some Agency work. She still struggles and if it wasn't for family, she would be using a Food Bank. She is fed up with the NHS and is thinking of going into private work where she will be appreciated and can choose her hours and have better pay. She always wanted to be a nurse from when she was a little girl. She is sadly disillusioned.
She also does some Agency work. She still struggles and if it wasn't for family, she would be using a Food Bank. She is fed up with the NHS and is thinking of going into private work where she will be appreciated and can choose her hours and have better pay. She always wanted to be a nurse from when she was a little girl. She is sadly disillusioned.
Tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people work for the NHS and civil service in Band 4,5,6,7. Some of them are nurses and most of them are not. A small minority of these people struggle financially just as some people in all sectors struggle.
The idea that nurses are uniquely badly paid just isn’t true. NHS scales are public and apply across the board to a million people and most of those people make ends meet fine.
I’d also add that NHS terms are far more favourable than anywhere else. Enormous pension, very generous holidays, very generous maternity, and they also get their increments - pretty much a guaranteed pay rise every year.
The idea that nurses are uniquely badly paid just isn’t true. NHS scales are public and apply across the board to a million people and most of those people make ends meet fine.
I’d also add that NHS terms are far more favourable than anywhere else. Enormous pension, very generous holidays, very generous maternity, and they also get their increments - pretty much a guaranteed pay rise every year.
Original post by madmadmax321
Your daughter must be awful with money then as a senior ward sister is band 7 I believe and thats 31-41k salary range outside of london, if she can't live off that comfortably then shes doing something massively wrong
More likely band 6.
Depends what responsibilities she has - have you seen how much out of hours childcare costs? If she's a single mother working regular nights i can fully believe that's the case.
Original post by Trinculo
The idea that nurses are uniquely badly paid just isn’t true. NHS scales are public and apply across the board to a million people and most of those people make ends meet fine.
Depends on what you consider bad pay i suppose.
Certainly, in the private sector they would be paid way more. Law of supply and demand and all that - currently there are tens of thousands of nursing and doctor vacancies but the wage for nurses has seen a real terms cut of 12% and for doctors 22%. Where the pay is governed by the free market (locum rates) doctors can expect a 2-3x higher hourly rate, same for nurses.
So from one perspective, pretty bad yes.
very generous holidays,
Is 27 days per year a lot of holiday? My private sector friends seem to get more.
For example, Tesco offers very similar
https://cdn.ourtesco.com/2016/05/Holiday-v2-May-2016.pdf
very generous maternity
8 weeks full pay and 18 weeks half pay. Again, Tesco seem to do 6 weeks 90% and 14 weeks half, so not so different? And with the greatest of respect, Tesco employees haven't done a 3 year degree to get to where they are.
Also remember the various compulsory costs of working for the NHS. Nursing council fees, examination fees if you want to progress, very rigid rotas with shift-work. And doctors have way more than that e.g. mandatory exams etc.
I don't think NHS pay is that bad in all honesty - certainly tales of food banks etc are an exception - but to claim there are lots of perks is patently false. The headline wage is an overestimate versus private companies who offer perks etc.
Original post by Seamus123
One of my daughters is a Senor Ward Sister on the Cardiac Ward at our local hospital. There is a shortage of nurses and, as a result, she has to carry a bleeper 24/7 and be on call. She is not paid for 24/7 on call.
She also does some Agency work. She still struggles and if it wasn't for family, she would be using a Food Bank. She is fed up with the NHS and is thinking of going into private work where she will be appreciated and can choose her hours and have better pay. She always wanted to be a nurse from when she was a little girl. She is sadly disillusioned.
She also does some Agency work. She still struggles and if it wasn't for family, she would be using a Food Bank. She is fed up with the NHS and is thinking of going into private work where she will be appreciated and can choose her hours and have better pay. She always wanted to be a nurse from when she was a little girl. She is sadly disillusioned.
a senior ward sister is band 7 I believe and thats 31-41k salary range outside of london, if someone can't live off that comfortably then they're doing something massively wrong as that is a good amount above the national average wage
Original post by nexttime
More likely band 6.
Depends what responsibilities she has - have you seen how much out of hours childcare costs? If she's a single mother working regular nights i can fully believe that's the case.
Depends what responsibilities she has - have you seen how much out of hours childcare costs? If she's a single mother working regular nights i can fully believe that's the case.
I know single parents with children on a lower wage than that work nights that still manage.
I asked my flatmate (and had a check online) and it is mainly a band 7 position that are specifically senior ward sisters (from what I read it is junior sisters that are band 6). Anyway my point is more that the poster was implying that nurses are poorly paid when in reality they arent, they are paid well above national average wage and no matter what way you spin it if you cant live of £30k+ you are doing something very wrong finance wise
Until recently, nurses graduated without student debt and can start at Band 5 which can be around 26K in london which is a pretty good start. I am a science postgrad with two degrees in 40K debt and can just about land band 4 roles which ask for way too much experience. I’ve been a HCA so I’ve worked with nurses and yes they do a lot, but alot of things are done by HCAs too which they don’t have to do anymore. I think nursing is a pretty good career in terms of salary, there’s progression into band 6/7 and even 8 as matrons which is 50K probably. Yeah you have to put up with alot of crap but you’re starting above national average. Newly qualified Drs spend 5/6 years at Uni and start at the same pay if not slightly lower....
The current starting salary of £22K would be more like £25k now if it hadn't have been for the conservatives austerity cap on public sector pay.
There is no incentive to enter nurses now that students are made to pay tuition fees for working unpaid for 3 years before they qualify.
There is no incentive to enter nurses now that students are made to pay tuition fees for working unpaid for 3 years before they qualify.
Original post by Smile88egc
The current starting salary of £22K would be more like £25k now if it hadn't have been for the conservatives austerity cap on public sector pay.
There is no incentive to enter nurses now that students are made to pay tuition fees for working unpaid for 3 years before they qualify.
There is no incentive to enter nurses now that students are made to pay tuition fees for working unpaid for 3 years before they qualify.
Most people have to pay tuition fees for 3 years before they work/qualify? But not everyone gets to start at a fairly decent salary tbh.
The point is that nursing students do thousands of hours of work providing care in the NHS that isn't always useful for their learning, they are used as part of the staff when they are on placements, do 13 hour day shifts, night shifts and are not paid a thing for it. Nursing is not your average degree and it is not comparable to an English student with 15 contact hours a week. It is more akin to an apprenticeship which is usually paid.
The nursing salary is not reflective of the intensity of work or the responsibility for patients lives that it entails.
40,000 nursing vacancies speak for themselves. It wouldn't be that way if the job paid well for what it involves.
The nursing salary is not reflective of the intensity of work or the responsibility for patients lives that it entails.
40,000 nursing vacancies speak for themselves. It wouldn't be that way if the job paid well for what it involves.
Original post by Smile88egc
The point is that nursing students do thousands of hours of work providing care in the NHS that isn't always useful for their learning, they are used as part of the staff when they are on placements, do 13 hour day shifts, night shifts and are not paid a thing for it. Nursing is not your average degree and it is not comparable to an English student with 15 contact hours a week. It is more akin to an apprenticeship which is usually paid.
The nursing salary is not reflective of the intensity of work or the responsibility for patients lives that it entails.
40,000 nursing vacancies speak for themselves. It wouldn't be that way if the job paid well for what it involves.
The nursing salary is not reflective of the intensity of work or the responsibility for patients lives that it entails.
40,000 nursing vacancies speak for themselves. It wouldn't be that way if the job paid well for what it involves.
I understand that, but the course is 50% placements. And I understand how tough nurses have it, I’ve been working alongside them for years now. I still think its a decent salary to start/progress from I guess.
Original post by Smile88egc
The point is that nursing students do thousands of hours of work providing care in the NHS that isn't always useful for their learning, they are used as part of the staff when they are on placements, do 13 hour day shifts, night shifts and are not paid a thing for it. Nursing is not your average degree and it is not comparable to an English student with 15 contact hours a week. It is more akin to an apprenticeship which is usually paid.
The nursing salary is not reflective of the intensity of work or the responsibility for patients lives that it entails.
40,000 nursing vacancies speak for themselves. It wouldn't be that way if the job paid well for what it involves.
The nursing salary is not reflective of the intensity of work or the responsibility for patients lives that it entails.
40,000 nursing vacancies speak for themselves. It wouldn't be that way if the job paid well for what it involves.
The nursing students might do that work for free (as do medical students) BUT you pretty much are guaranteed a job in nursing after graduating as the percentage of people who go into nursing (a career directly related to their degree) after a nursing degree is very high (86% and some of the people that didnt will have chosen not too), there are very very few subjects are uni that can claim that so imo all that extra free placement work you do is a trade off for pretty much having a guaranteed relevant grad job after you finish so you cant complain too much about the extra work
The national average wage is 27k and you hit that at low band 6 so it is fairly easy for you to earn a good amount above the national average wage as you move up to band 6 and above so the pay isnt that bad, so what about the responsibility? its not like its a surprise that you have lots of responsibility, you should know that before even starting a nursing degree let alone a nursing job
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Jheinexx
I want to go Into because I’ve always wanted to become it. That or a counsellor. But I also want money to buy nice clothes, a car, pay my bills and buy gifts for others. And everyone’s is saying that there are nurses who who have 2 other jobs. Like could it really be that bad that you need two other jobs to provide for your family? I want to earn 60-70k one day. Can I do that by being a nurse practitioner? Again I want to do become those because I’ve met nurses and been in their environment and I see myself doing it. But I don’t want to be struggling with money.
Not happening unless you move to the US.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Jheinexx
I want to go Into because I’ve always wanted to become it. That or a counsellor. But I also want money to buy nice clothes, a car, pay my bills and buy gifts for others. And everyone’s is saying that there are nurses who who have 2 other jobs. Like could it really be that bad that you need two other jobs to provide for your family? I want to earn 60-70k one day. Can I do that by being a nurse practitioner? Again I want to do become those because I’ve met nurses and been in their environment and I see myself doing it. But I don’t want to be struggling with money.
Extremely difficult to get that as a nurse. in the NHS they will make u work long hours for that £30k and as you rise through the pay bands which are set its even very difficult to get near the £40k mark, and the work to get even their is a lot of hours. Beyond that it's either private sector or senior management that will get you that but that is extremely difficult to get near that sort of money that you asked
Considering the amount of responsibility which nurses have, the unsocial hours, pressure & stress of the job then yes they are poorly paid. The pay is one aspect which you can question but also worth considering are the conditions which nurses work in. I've often seen nurses looking after 10-12 patients, the demands this puts on the nurse are immense, they are completely stretched trying to meet the needs of all those patients and relatives, keep on top of paperwork & documentation and ensure that each and every one of those patients receives adequate care, as a result they can often skip breaks. How about being the nurse in charge of the ward, with your own case load of patients to look after and if that is not enough also have to burden of trying to find staff for the night shift. Poorly paid, yes but also draining, demanding, disheartening and frustrating. It's not surprising that approximately 33,000 nurses left the profession last year with almost 25% of those being young nurses less than 30 years of age. Of 1,957 vacancies advertised between April and June last year in the Thames Valley region, the NHS managed to fill 5 places.
Rail fares increased by more then 3% this year, they also increased by almost 4% in 2013, we don't see the same increase in nurses salaries however! The NHS would fall apart without nurses, they are the glue which holds the system together and keeps it running. The latest figures on retention of nurses sums up the situation.
Rail fares increased by more then 3% this year, they also increased by almost 4% in 2013, we don't see the same increase in nurses salaries however! The NHS would fall apart without nurses, they are the glue which holds the system together and keeps it running. The latest figures on retention of nurses sums up the situation.
I've been qualified all of a few months, I'm already looking for jobs outside the nhs. the pay is dreadful and if I work overtime, I don't even see that as it's taken off me in tax. so often not worth it.
I know people in London that work in warehouses that earn far more than I do, taking off the extra they earn for living in london. it's appalling the amount of responsibility on your head and the extra hours I often work / have to stay behind/ go in on a day off to ensure paperwork is done and I get nothing for that apart from time owed which is very difficult to take.
And where I work I risk broken bones, ligaments, abuse every day. for what? band 5 pay.
now don't get me wrong I love my job. but the financial pressure just adds to the anxiety and stress that isn't needed in a job such as nursing.
a social worker is promoted to band 6 within a year. a nurse may be a band 5 for 10 years before they can be promoted after searching for a job and attending the interview and often having to leave their existing place of work.
I know people in London that work in warehouses that earn far more than I do, taking off the extra they earn for living in london. it's appalling the amount of responsibility on your head and the extra hours I often work / have to stay behind/ go in on a day off to ensure paperwork is done and I get nothing for that apart from time owed which is very difficult to take.
And where I work I risk broken bones, ligaments, abuse every day. for what? band 5 pay.
now don't get me wrong I love my job. but the financial pressure just adds to the anxiety and stress that isn't needed in a job such as nursing.
a social worker is promoted to band 6 within a year. a nurse may be a band 5 for 10 years before they can be promoted after searching for a job and attending the interview and often having to leave their existing place of work.
Original post by madmadmax321
a senior ward sister is band 7 I believe and thats 31-41k salary range outside of london, if someone can't live off that comfortably then they're doing something massively wrong as that is a good amount above the national average wage
Ward sisters are on band 6, with the more senior ones at the higher ends of the pay points depending on years worked.
Band 7 would be a ward manager.
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