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German Far Right Member converts to Islam

http://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2018/01/politician-converts-islam-quits-afd-party-180124124119851.html

A strange headline that a leading member of the AfD in Brandenburg, Germany, has converted to Islam. The AfD (Alternative fur Deutschland) is a far right German party which has sometimes been branded as 'Islamophobic', but the party denies this. What are your thoughts?

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If he was already a Christian I suppose it could make some sense. Muslims tend to hold that Christians are already Muslims and that they believe in the same god. The Quran is basically just an 'update patch' of God's word, if you like. So in theory somebody trying to convert him wouldn't have as much to do compared to a Muslim trying to convert an atheist or agnostic.

That said, he must've had quite the change of heart.
Maybe it is a cunning move to get the mainstream media to condemn Islam.

Maybe Trump will catch on, and start promoting the Burka. You'd have AntiFa burning down mosques in no time.
(edited 6 years ago)
But more seriously, he was a member of the AfD since 2015. The AfD used to be an anti-euro, anti-bailout party, led largely by academics and economists, and only turned anti-migrant because, well, no other parties were, and it had become a protest party.

> Wagner is an active member of the German-Russian community and the vice-chair of the regional Russian-German committee. He has also acted as a translator for refugees from Chechnya

IIRC, Chechnyans are largely muslims. Seems like he's been fairly friendly to Islam for a while, so he might well have joined the AfD on an anti-euro stance. What is odd is how he stayed a member despite its increasing islamophobia...

Maybe he hoped for a change of leadership - the AfD has been pretty unstable recently, maybe he had an ally who he hoped would lead - and only recently gave up hope of that happening?
The AfD is often described as a "white supremacist" party.

So you have to ask yourself what would it be about Islam that attracts a former member?

It is unlikely to be the white bit, is it?
Original post by generallee
The AfD is often described as a "white supremacist" party.

So you have to ask yourself what would it be about Islam that attracts a former member?

It is unlikely to be the white bit, is it?


There are many reasons to criticise Islam, but this isn't it. Islam is very accepting of all races. There is no trace of a racial supremacy about Islam, only one of faith.

If you say there is a problem with Islam because he used to be part of the AfD, then surely the fact that he used to be a member of Merkel's party before he joined the AfD indicates a problem with her party too? Is Merkel a supremacist?
Reply 6
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QE2
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Why is this a surprise? Islam is a far-right ideology.
Original post by FriendlyPenguin
There are many reasons to criticise Islam, but this isn't it. Islam is very accepting of all races. There is no trace of a racial supremacy about Islam, only one of faith.

If you say there is a problem with Islam because he used to be part of the AfD, then surely the fact that he used to be a member of Merkel's party before he joined the AfD indicates a problem with her party too? Is Merkel a supremacist?


I can't tell if you are being obtuse, or simply don't understand the point made..

In case it is the latter I'll spell it our for you.

Islam is a supremacist belief system. It avowedly divides mankind into two categories. The believers, chosen by God, and the infidels, damned by God, whom the divinity allows to be dominated by believers. In fact encourages to be. Through battle, and then once defeated, through subordinate, "dhimmi" status.

This individual is likely to be attracted to the supremacism inherent in Islam. Why would it be surprising?
Original post by generallee
I can't tell if you are being obtuse, or simply don't understand the point made..

In case it is the latter I'll spell it our for you.

Islam is a supremacist belief system. It avowedly divides mankind into two categories. The believers, chosen by God, and the infidels, damned by God, whom the divinity allows to be dominated by believers. In fact encourages to be. Through battle, and then once defeated, through subordinate, "dhimmi" status.

This individual is likely to be attracted to the supremacism inherent in Islam. Why would it be surprising?


All ideologies believe themselves to be the Truth, and all others to be Wrong. All religions which believe in a Heaven for the True Believers also believe in a Hell for the Wrongdoers.

A racial supremacy is very different to an ideological totalitarianism. It is based in genetics, rather than beliefs. You can't change your race, but you can change your beliefs. A racial supremacist is taking it upon themselves to play God through eugenics, to enact some social Darwinism, while someone waging Jihad is fighting for something purer and more abstract.

Your argument is that any ideology that categorises people into good and bad categories is isomorphic to white supremacy, which is nonsense. Take Marxism. The oppressed proletariat vs the opressing bourgeoisie. Is that also supremacist?
(edited 6 years ago)
Maybe he just came to the realisation that there is more to life and the universe than meets the eye. He opened his heart to other possibilities and found Islam to be the truth.
Original post by FriendlyPenguin
All ideologies believe themselves to be the Truth, and all others to be Wrong. All religions which believe in a Heaven for the True Believers also believe in a Hell for the Wrongdoers.

Whataboutery.

We were discussing what attracted this former white supremacist to the supremacist ideology of Islam.

Original post by FriendlyPenguin

someone waging Jihad is fighting for something purer and more abstract.


Are you for real?
Original post by generallee
Whataboutery.

We were discussing what attracted this former white supremacist to the supremacist ideology of Islam.


Reverse strawman fallacy or something, along with assumption fallacy or whatever. You were trying to portray Islam as a supremacist ideology, and you are now stating it as though it is a fact.

Are you for real?


Well, yeah. Someone waging holy war sees themselves as a servant of pure holiness - while a racial supremacist is someone who has a more materialist, reductionist view of the world, and acts on the belief that they have to stop the wrong genes spreading. The former is an inalienable product of ancient human psychology, while the latter is a superiority complex.
Only on TSR you will find kids defending Jihad
Original post by Chaz254
Only on TSR you will find kids defending Jihad


> X is bad, but Y is worse and not comparable to X
> OMG how dar u defend X you evil person!!!11

If I equate the holocaust to cyberbullying, and someone rightly points out the flaw in doing so, are they defending cyberbullying?
Original post by FriendlyPenguin
Reverse strawman fallacy or something, along with assumption fallacy or whatever. You were trying to portray Islam as a supremacist ideology, and you are now stating it as though it is a fact.

It is a fact.

Why do think the Middle East (the crucible of Christianity) is now an almost Christian free zone? The belief system was spread by the sword, by conquest. Military supremacy.

The belief system explicitly seeks to eventually conquer the entire world.

Do you deny this?
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Original post by Ninja Squirrel
Maybe he just came to the realisation that there is more to life and the universe than meets the eye. He opened his heart to other possibilities and found Islam to be the truth.
He was already a Christian, so clearly already believed in god. Perhaps he just changed to an ideology that better suited his ideals? After all, Christianity is almost hippy socialism compared to Islam's totalitarian supremacism.
Original post by generallee
It is a fact.

Why do think the Middle East (the crucible of Christianity) is now an almost Christian free zone? The belief system was spread by the sword, by conquest. Military supremacy.

The belief system explicitly seeks to eventually conquer the entire world.

Do you deny this?


Why is Europe (the crucible of paganism) an almost pagan-free zone? Christianity is, as you say, a Middle Eastern religion. The belief system didn't spread solely by peace either.

And what happened even to slightly dissimilar Christian sects? Why so few Catholics in England until recently? Why so few Protestants in Poland?

Why are there more Christians in Africa than Muslims? The Christian nations forced their religion on more people than the Arab nations did.
Original post by FriendlyPenguin
Why is Europe (the crucible of paganism) an almost pagan-free zone? Christianity is, as you say, a Middle Eastern religion. The belief system didn't spread solely by peace either.



And what happened even to slightly dissimilar Christian sects? Why so few Catholics in England until recently? Why so few Protestants in Poland?

Why are there more Christians in Africa than Muslims? The Christian nations forced their religion on more people than the Arab nations did.


More whataboutery. You are fond of that, aren't you?

Christianity spread by the sword too, but that doesn't have any relevance whatsoever, to the topic we are debating. Which is whether or not Islam is a supremacist ideology.

So I'll ask you again. Why are there almost no Christians in the Middle East? Why is Istanbul, which used to be 100% Orthodox Christian, and one of the largest cities in the world, now 99.9% Muslim? Where did they all go?

Any bright ideas, son, or will I have to tell you?
Original post by generallee
More whataboutery. You are fond of that, aren't you?

Christianity spread by the sword too, but that doesn't have any relevance whatsoever, to the topic we are debating. Which is whether or not Islam is a supremacist ideology.

So I'll ask you again. Why are there almost no Christians in the Middle East? Why is Istanbul, which used to be 100% Orthodox Christian, and one of the largest cities in the world, now 99.9% Muslim? Where did they all go?

Any bright ideas, son, or will I have to tell you?


You were trying to paint Islam as equivalent to racist supremacy, the evidence being that this guy converted.

But if Christianity is the same, then that is completely irrelevant, since the guy in question used to be a Christian.

So I'll ask you again. Why are there almost no Pagans in Europe? Why is London, which used to be 100% Pagan, and one of the largest cities in the world, now less than 1% pagan? Where did they all go?

Any bright ideas, son, or will I have to tell you?
(edited 6 years ago)
Islam originates in Arabia 7c. This is where we begin.

This is a list of areas that have been under Muslim control, clearly it is not extensive:
Granada (Spain), Morocco, Tunis, Algiers, Libya, Egypt, Eritrea, Palestine, Afghanistan, India (Mughals), Indonesia, every country around the Dead Sea with the exception of Ethiopia (e.g Somalia, Eritrea), Bosnia, Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, almost the entirety of the Balkans were subdued by the Ottomans, Central Asia was entirely subdued by the Mongols. Persia, Iraq.

Most of those take overs took a few hundred years.

Now I believe some of this territory was acquired through brute force (particularly the Conquest of Constantinople) but why did the populations remain Islamic?

Because I believe Islam was better than other religions at providing a buffer against the poverty of their times, notice Christians and Jews did not convert a lot, this is because they already had a buffer if you will.

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