Is the mathematics BSc at Keele any good for postgraduate study?

username2842002

I'm looking to apply to Keele University for the 1st year undergraduate maths.

Looking into the modules involved, I'm a bit concerned.

See this link for the modules. You need to scroll down a little

https://www.keele.ac.uk/ugcourses/mathematics/

My problem is that it doesn't seem to include some of the modules that you would do at a lot of other universities or the modules are pushed back. For example, linear algebra is done in the third year and it's an optional module whereas at other unis it's a 1st/2nd year module and it's compulsory.

If I wanted to do postgrad study would you recommend the mathematics BSc at Keele or should go elsewhere?

I'm considering Keele because my grades won't be good enough for some place like Warwick (I was sick in the last few years which have been affecting my results).

Thank you all.

Reply 1

marinade

Original post by Galatic

My problem is that it doesn't seem to include some of the modules that you would do at a lot of other universities or the modules are pushed back. For example, linear algebra is done in the third year and it's an optional module whereas at other unis it's a 1st/2nd year module and it's compulsory.

Yep I agree. If you take the module names on an as is basis (may not be a good idea) then pretty much all the third year modules are 1st or 2nd year modules, except maybe Fluid Mechanics, Metric spaces and topology and PDEs which might be 3rd year modules at other unis. All the rest look like 1st and sometimes 2nd year modules.

Reply 2

username2842002

Original post by marinade

So, would you say that it's not a good idea to go not to go to Keele for a maths degree and just go somewhere else?

Thank you for your reply.

Reply 3

marinade

Original post by Galatic

So, would you say that it's not a good idea to go not to go to Keele for a maths degree and just go somewhere else?

Thank you for your reply.

Keele's a nice university. It depends what you are interested in. In defence to the Keele Maths course there are some modules like medical statistics, codes and cryptography and mathematical biology that other undergraduate courses would not do and you would have to do them postgraduate (pretty common actually). Also how people name modules varies.

I've had this myself where my degree did a tiny bit less stats and a lot less mathematical finance than some trendier modern courses. I've had a lot of dull as dishwater conversations from alpha male types in plum city of london and finance jobs who find it ridiculous other courses are different and will start to take the piss out of other people's courses. Then you tell then you did a shedload of mathematical physics AND you've done a lot more numerical analysis than them (even with their professional qualifications in firms). Ah right they say, where did you go again I didn't catch the name of the uni...? Ah....

You didn't tell me what kind of postgraduate study you wanted to do. If you want to do an MSc in straight maths it'd probably be all right. If you want to do an MSc in medical statistics or something Keele would be great. If you want to do a DPhil or PhD in maths then I'd have a think about giving it a miss.

Reply 4

username2842002

Original post by marinade

You didn't tell me what kind of postgraduate study you wanted to do. If you want to do an MSc in straight maths it'd probably be all right. If you want to do an MSc in medical statistics or something Keele would be great. If you want to do a DPhil or Ph.D. in maths then I'd have a think about giving it a miss.

I'm not so sure about what kind of qualification I want/need. I'm ultimately looking to go into research for number theory and that's something I've definitely set my heart on. I just keep going back to it.

If I do end up not wanting to go into research anymore then I think I’ll probably go into some kind of finance field like accounting or maybe even teaching. Possibly engineering too, but I’m sure that would be one of the last things I do because I hate using computers to model things.

I also wanted to ask that if I go to Keele and get a 1st and then I go to do an MSc at somewhere really good like Manchester, Warwick or maybe even Imperial (if that's even possible with a degree at Keele) then how likely could I get on a very good MPhil programme?

Thank you very much again and sorry if this is such a long-winded question. It's just that if I go to Keele then it could determine what I can and cannot do for the rest of my life.

Best wishes, marinade.

Reply 5

marinade

If you want to do Number theory, then I wouldn't go to Keele. That bit is pretty simple. They just aren't a number theory research uni or have much on the undergraduate. Find one that is. For the other non-number theory work ideas you have, that'd probably be fine and then doing an MSc in financial mathematics (very common these days).

I don't mean this in a bad way, but a practical way, so we all make choices on the best instincts/information you have, if you go to Keele and do next to no Number theory and then sign up for an MSc in mathematics and do more and discover you hate it, that's a bit of a waste of time to put it mildly.

If you got a 1st at Keele, you'd be able to get on an MSc at a Sutton Trust or Russell Group university I'd have thought. Keele doesn't offer an MMath so you'd likely have to do an MSc anyway. In actual fact the MSc outranks the MMath anyway. I can't really offer advice on the MSc side of things as I'm very sceptical of the difference between MScs/MMath 4th year and BSc 3rd year modules. A lot of universities have 'M' level where 3rd year module options are packaged and quite literally taught at the same time as MSc students and they get loadsamoney for it. In an ideal world the 3rd year/4th year/MSc modules should be taught separately with beefier resources and supervision for the latter two. It happens in many other university subjects too where you just package a few 3rd year modules and tag on a few bits and hey presto you have created an MSc/MA out of thin air.

Reply 6

username2842002

Original post by marinade

Which unis would you recommend for number theory and which ones for an MSc in financial mathematics?

Thank you again.

Reply 7

marinade

Original post by Galatic

Which unis would you recommend for number theory and which ones for an MSc in financial mathematics?

Thank you again.

The ones I was thinking of were mostly Sutton Trust universities (some people now seem to call this the sutton trust 13). If you don't have the grades for those, just scout around for other unis other than Keele and compare modules, see if it's a bit more to your tastes than Keele. I'm sure there must be others with more number theory.

MSc in financial mathematics, I have no idea. I have absolutely no interest in such things, the idea of working in the city of London is absolutely abhorrent to me. All I know about that is what people on the course I did often went on to do or work in and a lot of people I've met since.

Although you say you are interested in number theory, so there's the time element, I'm just thinking in terms of 3 or 4 years. I don't think it's a case of rest of your life effects quite yet. I'm just saying having done a Maths degree some people find new areas they are interested in and others discover they dislike things (nothing wrong with that). That can be a well placed MSc comes in (as I said if you get a 1st at Keele I don't see why you couldn't get on an MSc at a Sutton Trust uni).

Reply 8

username2842002

Original post by marinade

Do unis (especially the Sutton Trust ones) care about your GCSEs and A-levels if you got a first?

Thanks again for helping me.

Reply 9

marinade

Original post by Galatic

Do unis (especially the Sutton Trust ones) care about your GCSEs and A-levels if you got a first?

Thanks again for helping me.

No.

I doubt very much doubt they care in the slightest what you got for GCSE or A-level once you're past undergrad. I don't think it'd be even on the application for the MSc (maybe I'm wrong)! GCSE grades do seem to be a 'thing' for teaching and nursing though.

Not to kick off world war 3 on here, but if someone has 5 A*-Cs at GCSE in English, Maths and Science, pretty much no one in society cares a jot what people got for GCSE (it's just something that teachers and parents tell people and I know reality shouldn't be like that). A-levels employers don't care about either I'm afraid. Once you have a degree it's totally irrelevant. All people care about is name (of university), number (classification) and subject. For many jobs there is a very weird 'parity' in the UK between degrees and all many employers care about is 'number' (degree classification). For academia, name, number, subject matter.

I did once hear of a case where an employer had supposedly identical candidates so did a 'countback' of what they got at A-level and GCSE. That's just comical.

I have something in common with you, I was ill for a substantial amount of time and it really dragged my GCSE grades down. I did get excellent A-levels and went to an elite university.