Brexit is an idiotic mistake - calendar week 5 summary

There is no price not worth paying to be free of the EU.

Thats easy for you to say when you're not the one getting laid off when the economy goes tits up.

The same arguments were used by Eurocultists for monetary union. If Britain didn't join the single currency, we'd be isolated and in abject poverty. It was a nonsensical argument and has been not only proven untrue, but quite the reverse. There are countries trapped in poverty by the Euro.

The whole EU religion is based on the idea that life outside the EU is some kind of nuclear wasteland, and that not being in the EU is catastrophic. We know this to be nonsense as there are plenty of countries who are not in the EU and get along just fine.

Also, before the EU - Britain was fine. British people travelled to Europe, worked in Europe and studied in Europe. Europeans travelled to Britain, studied in Britain and worked in Britain. For the whole of our time in the EU the overwhelming majority of students coming to the UK has been from the far east and not from the EU - ergo there is no reason to believe this would be affected.

Very few British students study in Europe other than on Erasmus. The US is by far and away the most popular destination for UK students, followed by Australia.

The whole idea of the EU being central to the survival of any given nation is a myth, peddled by the EU and its minions, when it's obvious by the existence of prosperous non-EU countries that it is entirely possible.

I was more referring to the Brexit ministers desire for a hard Brexit which would result in mass jobs losses if done..

We don't know that. Like I said, all the same things were said about monetary union by the same people. They all said that not being in the Euro would be catastrophic for Britain. It wasn't.

Let me ask you this - do you think Greece, Cyprus and Portugal should leave the EU?

You're arguing something completely different from the point i'm making...
It is an undisputable fact that if we end up with a hard Brexit and the tariffs that involves it will cost a lot of people a lot of jobs - no one can seriously deny this, especially given that the EU is by far our largest market.

I'm not entirely sure why you're asking me this?Should they leave the EU? I wouldnt say so. Should they leave the Euro? Yes.

It's not undeniable. Nobody has done it before. We don't know that it will cost jobs. We don't know that it will have any impact at all. All we have is a huge number of rabidly pro-EU scare stories.

There's no evidence that it is possible to leave the single currency without leaving the EU. The EU is funny like that - how they tell everyone who is a member exactly what they can and cannot do.

These countries are in a never ending cycle of poverty. How much worse could life outside the EU be?

in the near term almost everyone is in agreement [including the government] this will cost jobs.

Any divorce comes with pain, that's a given. No-one, not even BrExiteers were under the impression that breaking away from a totalitarian establishment would be easy or painless.

Nevertheless it is the right thing to do.

There are always casualties in any major change, such is life. If you turn out to be one of them, I sympathise, but get with the bigger picture because being a free nation is more important than any person's job.

If tariffs come back in [which they will under a hard brexit] it will cost jobs - this isnt a complex issue it is basic economics. Take for instance farmers who if they try and export to the EU will face tarrifs of up to 80pc.
I'm not saying different jobs might not be created further down the line if new markets are exploited but in the near term almost everyone is in agreement [including the government] this will cost jobs.
As opposed to blind optimism based on wishful thinking by the Brexstremists? With all due respect but there is not a shred of evidence to say this will be pleasant in the near term. Have you not noticed all the people beating the drum hardest for Brexit are the ones with nothing to loose? That fossil Mogg and his trusty sidekick johnson are both repulsively rich in their own right.

Why are we debating the situation in these med countries might I ask? I fail to see the relevance to the UK?

I feel the people who lose their jobs would somewhat disagree with that sentiment not to mention have something rather uncharitable to say with your faux-sympathies.

This is a reason to be leaving the EU. We don't want their protectionism. This is why I think it's all a bluff. The UK is an enormous market for the EU and Germany, France, Czech Republic etc have a lot more to think about and are a lot more accountable than people like Barnier. The Germans won't want crazy tariffs to send cars to the UK. They don't want us buying Japanese.

The point is that the whole basis of the EU being a panacea is based on the idea that you are better in the EU than out of it. These countries are in the EU and facing ruin. If it's not true that countries are better off generally in the EU, that's a start and we can look to the future from there.

And that's fine, it's just short-sighted knee-jerk reaction to changes in their personal life. There are bigger problems to think about, problems about our basic freedoms and fundamental values.

For example how would you balance a few people's jobs with say the loss of our right to free speech?

Why don't we? it's EU protectionism that has kept our limp **** steel industry just above water - without it would have been killed off years ago.
I feel you're over valuing the importance of the UK. Granted it is a sacrifice they dont want to make but from Berlins perspective its more important to keep the EU united than to give the British a sweetheart deal they don't deserve.

Yes but thats not exactly solely because of the EU is it? Thats a rather reductionist view to take as best. If they hadnt engaged in systematic fraud and lies there wouldnt be such a problem. At any rate I see your point but to solely blame the EU for their woes is wrong.

pray tell what basic freedoms and fundamental values you've lost because of the EU?

If the UK is not that important, why are they so desperate for us to not leave, and so desperate to try and punish us for doing so?

The UK is important. It's one of the most important countries in the world - certainly in Europe. It's one of the wealthiest countries in the world - has a GDP greater than all of OPEC put together. They need our money, but hate us for just about everything else. Why do we need that kind of toxic politics and why should we surrender our national interest to the EU?

The point isn't what caused Greek meltdown - and absolutely there is more than enough blame to go around there - but the fact that their membership of the EU renders them incapable of doing anything about it. Greece has ceased to be a nation state in any real sense. This is my primary objection to the EU. That is subsumes political power for itself and has no aim other than continual enlargement in both geography and political power. This is absolutely obvious.

It's more the freedoms will ultimately be lost if we were to stay in. Britain has some temporary concessions against certain EU directives. For example, we don't (yet) have the Euro but make no mistake, the EU Treaties, to which we are signed up mandate that we must accept the Euro. The only question therefore is long would the EU permit us to maintain our Sterling before they enforce the Euro on us?

More worryingly though, and to properly answer your question, there is the fundamental issue of the EU's desire to implement their own justice values which wholly contravene Britain's most hallowed Common Law principles.

I am talking of course about "Habeus Corpus", our right to be "Innocent until proven guilty". Every UK citizen expects and knows that they can not be arrested and detained for any significant length of time without due cause and some form of evidence. They also know that they must be given a fair trial.

It's no secret that the totalitarian EU wants to bring in "Corpus Juris" which is completely the other way around. This allows them to seize and arrest citizens without a shred of evidence and to detain them for months or even years. It's a dystopian nightmare scenario and whilst
some people have obstructed its implementation thus far, it's clear that the EU is already heavily engaged in this totalitarian methodology.
I will post here the same info I posted for someone else on another thread.

This stuff completely opposes Britain's fundamental principles of fairness and freedom and justice. The end of free speech pretty much comes as part of the package with such measures.

So, thanks, but I'm entirely happy to be leaving the EU cesspit and encroaching totalitarian regime.

I didnt say it wasnt important, I said you're over stating its importance.
How are they trying to punish us exactly?
This is all starting to sound like you're taking it overly personally and you're implying that Britain is somehow in the right here? The EU might be being cocks in this but Britain is being far worse - I dont recall the Germans referring to our evil past unlike several of our politicians calling them Nazis.

Do i need to point out that one of the biggest drivers for EU enlargement was Britain... Who do you think pushed so hard for turkey to try and join?
I get your objections to the EU, even if i disagree with them, but this continued fibbing about the EU being some kind of dictatorship whose raison d'etre is to crush dissent is at best fatuous and wrong.