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Schools Minister says more exams is the solution to Mental Health

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Original post by CoolCavy
you already get that from doing mocks in exam conditions


Sorry, but my point was that the pressure of exams needs to become more familiar. Mocks don't present such a pressure.

The counter-point is that if students are already doing internal exams all the time, there is no negative effect of replacing them with external exams. At worst, the suggestion made by the Minister is useless. But importantly, useless rather than harmful to students.
Original post by Notorious_B.I.G.
Sorry, but my point was that the pressure of exams needs to become more familiar. Mocks don't present such a pressure.

The counter-point is that if students are already doing internal exams all the time, there is no negative effect of replacing them with external exams. At worst, the suggestion made by the Minister is useless. But importantly, useless rather than harmful to students.


Why is more exams the answer?
Original post by Notorious_B.I.G.
Sorry, but my point was that the pressure of exams needs to become more familiar. Mocks don't present such a pressure.

The counter-point is that if students are already doing internal exams all the time, there is no negative effect of replacing them with external exams. At worst, the suggestion made by the Minister is useless. But importantly, useless rather than harmful to students.


I suppose that depends on the school really, at my school they had end of year mocks for years 7,8, 9 and 10 then real exams at the end for all the above years as well as easter and christmas mocks for those years. All those mocks were taken really seriously and even year 7s treat it as life and death which is why i think adding exams earlier wouldnt make anyone less stressed.
I guess so but the point of mocks is that you can learn to do exams and you often cant learn stuff without making mistakes. If they were external exams then the pupil would be learning how to do exams whilst sitting an exam that counted which isnt really fair. It's not the same thing but its like throwing a soldier into a warzone without training exercises first.
Original post by Tiger Rag
Why is more exams the answer?


I said in my first post in the thread.

I recall for my undergrad I was near-catatonic with nerves for my first year exams. As the years went on, I was wholly more comfortable and relaxed. I think if at an earlier age I was exposed to more exams, rather than soft mocks, I would have been a lot more relaxed. But that is not the whole cure, as I mentioned in my first post.
It would be nice if these 'ministers' tried talking to some pupils rather than making up a load of **** like this! I had 29 exams in 2 months at the end of year 11, how can that be good for any ones mental heath especially if we are constantly told by everyone that grades are the most important thing in life. This country's education system is too exam orientated.
[Citation needed]
Original post by CoolCavy
I suppose that depends on the school really, at my school they had end of year mocks for years 7,8, 9 and 10 then real exams at the end for all the above years as well as easter and christmas mocks for those years. All those mocks were taken really seriously and even year 7s treat it as life and death which is why i think adding exams earlier wouldnt make anyone less stressed.


Well, that wasn't our experience of them when I was at school. There was no exam pressure; just one day instead of coming to history, you will go to the dining hall. That in itself was useful at getting familiar with exam conditions, the timing of questions, and all the rest of it. But again, no one was worried or anxious about the end result. That came at the end-of-year exam, and everyone became much more tense and disorientated.

I guess so but the point of mocks is that you can learn to do exams and you often cant learn stuff without making mistakes. If they were external exams then the pupil would be learning how to do exams whilst sitting an exam that counted which isnt really fair. It's not the same thing but its like throwing a soldier into a warzone without training exercises first.


You could have mocks for external exams.

By the way, I am saying "external exams" but that is not really the Minister's suggestion. His point seems to be that there should be more exams -- it could be more mocks, or more real exams, internal or external. I think more of both would be useful, but learning to cope with pressure could be helpful to many students.
Original post by Notorious_B.I.G.
Well, that wasn't our experience of them when I was at school. There was no exam pressure; just one day instead of coming to history, you will go to the dining hall. That in itself was useful at getting familiar with exam conditions, the timing of questions, and all the rest of it. But again, no one was worried or anxious about the end result. That came at the end-of-year exam, and everyone became much more tense and disorientated.



You could have mocks for external exams.

By the way, I am saying "external exams" but that is not really the Minister's suggestion. His point seems to be that there should be more exams -- it could be more mocks, or more real exams, internal or external. I think more of both would be useful, but learning to cope with pressure could be helpful to many students.


yeh that's why i said depends on the school :tongue:
my school was very high pressure and high stress which is why i have a differing opinion, i saw the impact that that had on people's mental health around me and experienced it first hand because of the wall to wall mocks and end of unit tests and constant pressure for good grades
I also think that there is an issue of time with having mocks for more external exams as i said in my first post. I think the move from modular was a good thing as you are actually learning stuff for the most part and not just learning something and retaining it for a couple months for an exam then forgetting the entire thing.
(edited 6 years ago)
Reply 28
Avatar for S.G.
S.G.
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I see his point and agree with it to a reasonable extent.

The Year 7-9 curriculum is crap, and it’s often a shock to the system when you suddenly do to do exams during GCSEs etc. I feel it’s added stress when you’re doing exams that matter but it’s your first real experience. That probably does incite panic in some people.

A transitional period with some exams at the end of the years during KS3, not like 30 odd, but at least in English maths and science can help I feel.
(edited 6 years ago)
His proposal seems to be suggesting just adding an extra one per subject every year. I can't really see what that does. My school more or less did that anyway. We got a school "exam week" where all subjects would give some form of test regardless of year group just to see how everybody was doing. Of course, because they didn't actually count for anything what happened was I did 0 work for all of them and still ended up getting stressed out come A level time, despite being used to how exams worked.

The way to make that not happen in the same way would be to make things you do at age 12 affect your future career and uni options, but that would only make stress far far worse.

TL;DR: I think I've already been through what his system entails and it did not help.

Original post by CoolCavy
Does he not comprehend that pupils already have far more exams than external exams if you include mocks that my school had an obession with and made us do loads of them in exam conditions. If you added more exams in where would the 'practise' exams be situated, or are you just gonna add more exams until its wall to wall exams with no actual learning time, bearing in mind that doing mocks takes up about a weeks worth of time as you have to revise for the mock (usually get like 1 revision lesson and less homework cos of revision) then do the actual mock, then the teacher has to mark it, then you have to have another lesson going through it.


With the way just about every government minister speaks about exams, I'm fairly sure they don't know that mocks exist.
I like the idea of more exams. Get rid of that coursework crap and make school life exam based. Kids need to toughen up or life just gonna spit them out. They need to be taught the pressure of reality.
Original post by Guru Jason
I like the idea of more exams. Get rid of that coursework crap and make school life exam based. Kids need to toughen up or life just gonna spit them out. They need to be taught the pressure of reality.


How many jobs involve doing no assessments all year and having your performance based on a few hours in an exam hall?

I don't think you have much clue about what "reality" is
Original post by PQ
How many jobs involve doing no assessments all year and having your performance based on a few hours in an exam hall?

I don't think you have much clue about what "reality" is


I've done coursework and exams all the way to degree level and have been in work for the last 4 years as an estimator. The reality is exactly how I say it. High pressure work in a limited timeframe. My work is similar to exams more than any coursework I've done. Try not to assume anything next time.
Original post by Guru Jason
I've done coursework and exams all the way to degree level and have been in work for the last 4 years as an estimator. The reality is exactly how I say it. High pressure work in a limited timeframe. My work is similar to exams more than any coursework I've done. Try not to assume anything next time.


Your work is similar to exams? You don't have access to research materials or other people? That doesn't sound like a normal job - it must be tough sitting in silence all day and wishing you could just use the internet occasionally :moon:

Or are you talking crap and your job is closer to coursework with a short deadline?
in year 5 i seemed to have an exam every single week while half the class was doing something fun like cooking oh how I feared Wednesday afternoon's.
Original post by PQ
Your work is similar to exams? You don't have access to research materials or other people? That doesn't sound like a normal job - it must be tough sitting in silence all day and wishing you could just use the internet occasionally :moon:

Or are you talking crap and your job is closer to coursework with a short deadline?


It's actually a lot like uni exams. We don't get accss to internet, only managers and higher do. We do get to talk but it usually the day involved builders asking me to quantify prices for there sites so me going back and forth from my prices matrix to the floor plans and compiling a lump sum quotes. Its not the most interesting job but I'm good, I'm quick and it pays well enough. I don' want to do this forever but it is quite high pressure.
Politicians need to make a name for themselves.

Being an unpopular bullying b*****d is a way to get to the top.

This is the Genghis Khan school of leadership.

Perhaps his idea of the school mental-health lead is a euphemism for suicide watch.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Guru Jason
It's actually a lot like uni exams. We don't get accss to internet, only managers and higher do. We do get to talk but it usually the day involved builders asking me to quantify prices for there sites so me going back and forth from my prices matrix to the floor plans and compiling a lump sum quotes. Its not the most interesting job but I'm good, I'm quick and it pays well enough. I don' want to do this forever but it is quite high pressure.


Estimating is doing sums and looking up tables.

A bright year 7 pupil can be taught what to do. lol.
Original post by bones-mccoy
Changing it so that students only have one set of exams in May/June was a mistake, definitely.

I am always so amazed how out-of-touch the people in these high-flying roles are, like they're not in the real world.


And the way in which exams are fundamentally structured is a mistake - especially when they're supposed to get you prepared for a working life.
Like, I've just gone from A levels to temporary employment in my gap year before university, and not once when I've been learning stuff has my manager/supervisor gone and taken my notes away when I've needed them.

The idea that we're supposed to know everything off by heart and recite it in the space of 1-2 1/2 hours is beyond comprehension. We're surrounded by access points for information, so even if we do need to know something we can quickly research it. and learn new skills in the same way (e.g - you want to learn how to tie a tie? YouTube it. Which US figures are on their coins and notes? There's a Wikipedia page somewhere.)

And it's not like the exams are an adequate way of testing intelligence anyway. One bad day in the exam after months of hard work can make it all redundant and destroy future plans if you're not careful. You can be working at A/A* level for 2 years, and then 1 day that leads to a C in that paper can mean the difference in Tertiary education and the feeling of idiocy etc. etc.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by uberteknik
Estimating is doing sums and looking up tables.

A bright year 7 pupil can be taught what to do. lol.


I'm obviously simplifying it for the sake of quick typing. No a year 7 could not do what I do. I don't think a year 7 knows enough about tax or company law to do what I do lol

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