Healthcare isn't a right.

I am not saying that, nor is @CountBrandenburg.
Let's put it in other terms. An MRI machine is part of healthcare. It costs money. It is not a right, it is a commodity.
How about apples. An apple is a commodity, it costs money, is bought and sold etc.

I'm not born with a right to use an MRI machine, just like I am not born with the right to buy an apple.


Pretty much this, except the fact that anything that costs money and is bought and sold is a commodity, so healthcare isn't a right, it is a commodity, as said before.

So what? How do you think people should get access to healthcare? You seem to mention money a lot so i assume you think health should be paid for?

Well, to get it out of the way, emergency healthcare will be free. As for the rest of healthcare,
Well, insurance companies.
You see, profit drives companies.
Let's have 3 insurance companies, 1,2 and 3.
1, says to each customer, pay
£5000.
2, says £3000.
3, says £2000.
Now, Company 2 will appeal to middle class, 1 to upper classes, and 3 to the Lower Classes.
They will all get the same treatment in the end, it's just that each company will do something different.
1 might add some free perks in, that aren't really necessary, but people might want.
3 might say, oh, we'll pay you if you refer a friend.
Free Markets will work, just like with all commodities. For example, It could cost a few hundred to make a sandwich, by raising the animal/growing the plant etc. But you can buy one for a few quid in your local shop. Competition leads to greater variety.
If the insurance companies wanted more profit, they would need to retain customers and so they would need customer satisfaction; good healthcare experiences.
As sad as it might sound, everything in the world is one way or another driven by profit. All great things have come from desire for profits; cars, technology etc. You can buy a cheap car or an expensive car. They will both go from A to B.
Just a longer ramble about Healthcare being a commodity.

So what you are suggesting is a healthcare system similar to the NHS. Don’t you think the extra money provides premium treatments to upper/middle classes? Do you not see how you just created a divide in healthcare based on ability to pay? You are making healthcare appear as a business and as soon as you do that are you really prioritising patient care? Do you see where im coming from, healthcare is supposed to put people before money, yes i agree with your thoughts on emergency medicine but i think it should branch to all specialties and the UK is a living proof that a free healthcare system works.

So, you think the UK healthcare system works?
Hmm, let's see.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/10/nhs-waiting-lists-longest-decade/
Across the first six months of 2017, an average of 369,007 patients had been waiting longer than 18 weeks to start treatment after being referred by their GP.
Oh, so the NHS is ignoring the 18 weeks maximum waiting time.
But, you might just say that is due to mismanagement.
How about this?
People get their treatment, and they go home, with a bad experience. The NHS worked. But not well, so it didn't really work.
Also, https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jul/18/uk-cancer-survival-rates-lag-behind-those-of-other-european-countries-study
NHS is working perfectly.
No, it is a cash strapped idealistic system that will never work effectively. Just like socialism.

Well, to get it out of the way, emergency healthcare will be free. As for the rest of healthcare,
Well, insurance companies.

because taxation is theft.

That is why the US system is so broken and inhumane.

If you provide only only emergency care for free, but not preventitive care, you get to pay more when the a condition becomes serious. The suffering that is inflicted by not having free care before conditions are serious, or even life threatening, is inhumane.

Then there's the whole issue of vacination, which is desirable for all of society.

Not really. Healthcare is paid for through taxes. We pay for other people's healthcare. We are forced to actually. Money is taken involuntarily from us, to benefit 'everyone'.

I live in the Netherlands, healthcare here private but it is a legal requirement so nobody goes without cover because it's cheaper to just pay for it than pay the fine for not having any. We have a quarter of your population so paying for it gives us great care, that doesn't mean that it being free in the UK is the problem. Mismanagement is

The NHS isn’t sustainable if it gets:
- cuts in funding
- lowered staff morale as their working hours increase
- lack of education of the public
- increasing demand
- elderly population spending more time being sick
- competition with the private health sector
- an incompetent government (the NHS should be a separate body)

Can you please at least make a balanced argument. Yes the NHS is not flawless and it is becoming more strained but it has worked for over 50 years serving people based on clinical need. You can’t deny the care and affect the NHS has had on our society.

Plz discuss. I think it isn't. You aren't inherently born with a right to go and get an MRI scan.

Plz don't look at the US, it is a disaster. When it comes to health, it is a horrible mix of government intervention and private healthcare.
What about Switzerland?
Private healthcare, compulsory, albeit private. Far better than NHS.
Netherlands?
Private, and so much better than UK.
I'm assuming you are talking about the NHS, when it comes to healthcare. Universal? Maybe.
But, other people are paying for you to get better, when you may not need it.
Healthcare isn't a right. It is a commodity.

Please do not use Switzerland as an example of 'private' healthcare. Switzerland has an obligatory health care system, where premiums are more or less fixed by the Federal Health Agency (BAG, Bundesamt für Gesundheit). Private insurers have very little lee way in raising (or lowering for that matter) them. They try to compete in different areas such as type of service offered. This obligatory part is barely profit making in general. They then offer further care which is essentially private health care. Same way you can have private insurance in the UK beyond NHS. And mind you, the rich doctors in the UK are doctors working for private patients.

Now, the NHS is an administrative nightmare and that could be fixed, except on the other hand that would also mean a lot of people going jobless. Might want to think about that, too. But in general to say "oh look, nationalized healthcare sucks cuz muh look at my two examples of countries with 'private' healthcare". Well I can point to the US for an example of private healthcare that is absolutely horrendous.

x

I propose to put healthcare in the free market. America is not a free market and nor is switzerland. Healthcare is a commodity and should be treated as such in a free market.

Plz discuss. I think it isn't. You aren't inherently born with a right to go and get an MRI scan.

I am not saying that, nor is @CountBrandenburg.
Let's put it in other terms. An MRI machine is part of healthcare. It costs money. It is not a right, it is a commodity.
How about apples. An apple is a commodity, it costs money, is bought and sold etc.

I'm not born with a right to use an MRI machine, just like I am not born with the right to buy an apple.

Pretty much this, except the fact that anything that costs money and is bought and sold is a commodity, so healthcare isn't a right, it is a commodity, as said before.

Not really. Healthcare is paid for through taxes. We pay for other people's healthcare. We are forced to actually. Money is taken involuntarily from us, to benefit 'everyone'. That is a definition for both taxation and socialism. Anyway, If you use that sentence, it sounds like it is theft, because taxation is theft. Saying that you WILL do something if YOU want to, that violates someone else's rights isn't right, agreed? You are violating our rights by stealing money, thus, by regression, healthcare isn't a right, rather 'free healthcare' is a violation of our rights, rather than a right in itself.