Reports of a shooting in a Florida school

There can be no serious dispute that the wide availability of guns in America has led to a much higher rate of gun homicide. Construing the Second Amendment to mean people must be able to buy semi-automatic rifles and semi-auto pistols without licensure literally means dead children. Refusing to introduce proper background checks, limits on numbers of firearms, closing the gunshow loophole, literally means dead children.

It's nauseating that there are American right-wingers who will consciously decide that they would prefer some children die (and thousands of adults) so that they can maintain their almost completely unrestricted right to buy and own guns.

Of course, I guess many of them may not be consciously deciding that; they are so biased, and so willing to believe whatever crap Fox News, Breitbart, Infowars and the NRA pour down their gullet, that they genuinely believe that more guns makes people safer.

This proclaimed need to have guns so that they can violently rise up against a future tyrannical government is total idiocy. It's not guns that prevent tyranny, it's centuries of political norms and conventions, of the rule of law, of respect for political plurality and civil rights, these centuries of accretions of rights and democratic norms, that prevent tyranny. Ironically, many of these extremist right-wingers are right now setting fire to the rule of law, to centuries of political norms and conventions, in defence of the Orange Fuhrer and because they will happily destroy democracy as long as it "triggers liberals"

Well, as long as we all send thoughts and prayers, it'll be fine.

This is based on sheer conjecture of how you imagine people would react. In a situation of life and death, the fight response kicks in. Similar to how a green cop faced with an armed suspect has the awareness to check their surroundings, make sure their partners are not caught in the cross-fire. Now you could say the cop has gun training; but why is it unimaginable that a hypothetical designated protector would not have extensive training.

The sheer panic you talk about is more akin to a flight response.

”. At the end of the day, this is an extremely sad and horrific event.

Can you be a grown up and desist with the ad hominem attacks? Thanks.



I never said they would be ineffective, or I would never have suggested their efficacy at saving lives. I said an ineffective result is rather unlikely to be the exacerbating kind you describe.



This is based on sheer conjecture of how you imagine people would react. In a situation of life and death, the fight response kicks in. Similar to how a green cop faced with an armed suspect has the awareness to check their surroundings, make sure their partners are not caught in the cross-fire. Now you could say the cop has gun training; but why is it unimaginable that a hypothetical designated protector would not have extensive training.

The sheer panic you talk about is more akin to a flight response.



Your entire position relies on the idea that a person could not be trained to carry a firearm and be responsible when doing so. Even though when these situations come to an end, you'd be relying on a police officer who has been trained to carry a firearm ending the situation.

Extremely sad news. In the UK, we're lucky to be living in this great country where we do not have to live in fear of being shot everywhere we go. Every country has its problems and it is sad to hear of the constant shootings in the US especially when young people with a whole life ahead of them have their lives cut short like this. Just shows that we shouldn’t take license for granted, even if we live in a very safe country like the UK. Any of us could die tomorrow. I pray that God helps the families of those who died and gives them comfort at this difficult time and I pray that God will give America’s leaders the strength to stand up against the NRA and find ways to prevent such tragedies in the future.

I notice quite often that when there is a mass shooting in the US, there’s a lot of compassion and condolences from Americans on social media but from Brits it tends to be “Americans are a bunch of stupid gun-toting psychos”, “fix your gun problem America”, “just another day in the US who cares”. At the end of the day, this is an extremely sad and horrific event. We shouldn’t use it merely as a platform for expressing our dislike for American gun laws while failing to stand in solidarity with our great ally. Obviously America is in mourning, especially since these people were very young, and we should be horrified and saddened at this incredible tragedy. It’s frustrating that there seems to be a lack of compassion and respect for America and Americans at times like this.

a significant proportion of the population want to keep them.

A majority of the US population support introducing at least one form of gun control. In spite of this however, US politicians are highly unlikely to ever consider gun control legislation, due to the strength of the NRA lobby.

It doesnt matter. Ideas of control differ wildly. There are simply too many guns in circulation now and there isnt the political will or support to really go for it. It must be really strange attending school thinking that it is a ppossibility there will be a mass shooting. I can only think of three such events in the UK and they all resulted in public consensus and new laws.

The UK has a very different legal and political culture, though. Even if American politicians wanted to introduce strict European-style gun control, it is by no means certain that they would be able to - the Supreme Court would likely strike any law which curtails the second amendment down, in the US a two-hundred-year-old piece of paper reigns supreme. And with another originalist on the bench, that doesn't look likely to change anytime soon.

Right and how do the cops distinguish between the good guy with a gun and the bad guy with the gun? What will happen is that they'll both end up dead because the cops won't know who to shoot.Also if good guys with guns works then why hasn't it worked before?

You say it's based on conjecture but your argument is based on conjecture and an overinflated view of your own abilities to react. So, let's be quite clear about this - "good guy with a gun" is a naive fool who will panic, not check their surroundings properly, will not be prepared and will be a hazard, or ineffective at best. The armed civilian does not stop active shootings, American history shows this conclusively.