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Is having an 'all black' party racist?

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Plot twist: the dress code was "all black"
Original post by Aariez
Yes, it's racist, but it's also understandable. If you're a minority in a culture/nation, you'll never know what it feels like to be one of the majority. An "all black" party in a predominantly white country allows the party-goers a glimpse of the other side. It gives them a sense of power they are denied 99% of the time.

It would be incredible if race no longer mattered to anyone, but the reality is that we are very judgemental creatures. We segregate on race, religion, wealth, social status, dress code, gender, sexual orientation, etc., etc.

At the end of the day, minority racist events like this are not the moral equivalent of the same racist events from a majority culture/race.


Sure, it might be understandable. But you do black people (or whatever “oppressed” minority group it may be) no favours by turning a blind eye to this behavious or thinking it in any way acceptable. To do that is to say you are holding black people to a lower moral standard than you would white people. This does them ABSOLUTELY no favours whatsoever, you are robbing them of their moral agency in doing this, you are perpetuating the idea that black people are lesser in the most fundamental way.
Reply 62
Avatar for gerk
gerk
5
Original post by 0lut0
Soo...are afro-Caribbean communities in universities racist because they only allow black people to join them? If they host a party which only invites black people because it's an acs party it would be considered racist?


I'm not so sure about yours, but at my previous University, the ACS would allow people of all races, cultures and ethnicity to join. It promotes inclusion and the spread of different cultures and goes a long way to break down the racial barriers some impose upon themselves.

So yes, I do believe an 'all black' party is racist, by the definition of the word racism, in that it is prejudice or discrimination against another party due to their race. Excluding those of a different race is discrimination, and quite honestly, a great way to promote continual disparity and segregation between races.

In fact, the notion of races are, in my belief, not necessary any longer. Yes, be proud of your culture, your nationality, whatever you wish; but distinctions based upon skin colour, no matter whether these distinctions are coming from those that are white or those that are black, are outdated and need to be reviewed.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by limetang
...What you’re saying is...


No, what I said is what I'm saying, not your 'interpretation' of what I said. I don't rate the ad hom either.
If the party was specifically for black people then yes.

If it just happened to be attended by only black people, then no.
Original post by unknown_usr
Some of my black friends recently had a party - a party which they said and were blatant about being 'all-black'. I couldn't help but think if that was the other way round [i'm white] it would be horrifically racist? Am I the only one thinking this?


Well yea it’s the epitome of racism
Original post by Axiomasher
No, what I said is what I'm saying, not your 'interpretation' of what I said. I don't rate the ad hom either.


What ad hom? I never once personally attacked you, only your argument. I may have said certain things about your viewpoint but again, nothing about you.

Also, if you support not holding black people to the same moral standard as you would white people (which, if you say black only events are okay but white only events aren’t, you are) then yes, that is what you’re saying. Just because you don’t want to acknowledge the implications of what you’re saying doesn’t mean those implications aren’t there.

Which is to say, there’s a subtle but important difference between putting words in people’s mouth and pointing out the implications of what someone is saying.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by limetang
What ad hom?....


You could have said you strongly disagreed with my post but you deliberately chose to identify it as '********' (or whatever). Whether or not that is an ad hom in the technical sense might be debatable but it only served to take attention away from whatever else you wanted to say. If you want to constructively engage in debate then I would advise you to avoid such a technique, it's likely to result in your frustration.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Axiomasher
You could have said you strongly disagreed with my post but you deliberately chose to identify it as '********' (or whatever). Whether or not that is an ad hom in the technical sense might be debatable but it only served to take attention away from whatever else you wanted to say. If you want to constructively engage in debate then I would advise you to avoid such a technique, it's likely to result in your frustration.


Whether or not it is an ad hominem IS an important distinction. An ad hominem if a fallacy because it attempts to discredit an argument based on WHO is making it rather than the content of the argument. You can say what I did was rude and in poor judgement, but it's not a fallacy.

However, "I don't like the way you said that" is not an argument against the content of what I said. Would you like to present an argument against that?
Original post by limetang
Whether or not it is an ad hominem IS an important distinction..


Well, your decision to describe my comment as '********' came across as an attempt to insult. If you're going to disagree with someone, or challenge them, then that's what you should do, not simply insult. The insult based approach tends to weaken any point you were trying to make because discussion ends up being about the insult. You could just apologise.
Yes it's racist stupid people
Original post by Axiomasher
In an ideal world it would be racist but it's not an ideal world. Historically black people have had to deal with all kinds of prejudice, institutional and otherwise, so forming a group to defend themselves makes sense. Superficially it looks like a double standard but a willingness to recognise that some things have important historical contexts, can go a long way.


It is racist. The proof is in your answer. It makes no sense. You are right when you say that historically blacks have had to deal with quite a bit of racism but you use that historical example to defend an entirely racist group of blacks who know as much about being persecuted for their race, as their grandparents were, as I know about about being a cowboy because my grandfather was one.
So, unless blacks are being persecuted in the U.K. they have no reason to form groups to,"defend themselves", so everyone who attended that racist gathering is a racist and should be called out as such.
Original post by Aariez
Yes, it's racist, but it's also understandable. If you're a minority in a culture/nation, you'll never know what it feels like to be one of the majority. An "all black" party in a predominantly white country allows the party-goers a glimpse of the other side. It gives them a sense of power they are denied 99% of the time.

It would be incredible if race no longer mattered to anyone, but the reality is that we are very judgemental creatures. We segregate on race, religion, wealth, social status, dress code, gender, sexual orientation, etc., etc.

At the end of the day, minority racist events like this are not the moral equivalent of the same racist events from a majority culture/race.


profileing is completely understandable but it is indeed racist so why isn't it OK??
A couple of years ago a group of students in an American University tried to set up a white students group. I think this came about because they realised they were the only racial group that didn't have one.
All hell broke loose and if I recall correctly there even talk of expelling them if they pushed it.
What the outcome was I don't know.
Reply 74
Avatar for tbeyan
tbeyan
16
Original post by del1rious
Yep. From any other race this is seen as empowering. White people aren’t allowed to do such things because we are still paying the price and being blamed for actions and decisions our ancestors took many years ago, regardless of whether we hold the same beliefs or not.

For ones whom complain so much about white privilege, they don’t half like to make the most of their own


not at all. Black people have a special connection between each other. We all experience racism everyday. We all have the same hardship. And white people always disagree and say we don't experience racism etc etc, that right there is why theres no kind of relativism between blacks and whites of that kind. So when a group of people all relate, and have the same history, same banter,; it's really fun and empowering.
Original post by Axiomasher
That's a fair attempt but it's not quite the same thing. An Irish person isn't so easily made the victim of prejudice by appearance alone, for example,because they are predominantly 'white', Also, prejudice against the Irish in England has historically had a strongly religious bias (i.e. much of the prejudice had an anti-Catholic slant even though there were, and are, plenty of non-Catholic Irish). I assume you're unfamiliar with the widespread phenomenon of Irish clubs which emerged across England across the 19th and 20th centuries, easily seen as centres of self-defence and mutual association.


this is a fantastic explanation, thank you for this
Original post by Axiomasher
Well, your decision to describe my comment as '********' came across as an attempt to insult. If you're going to disagree with someone, or challenge them, then that's what you should do, not simply insult. The insult based approach tends to weaken any point you were trying to make because discussion ends up being about the insult. You could just apologise.


So that’s a no then on you arguing against my point?
Original post by tbeyan
not at all. Black people have a special connection between each other. We all experience racism everyday. We all have the same hardship. And white people always disagree and say we don't experience racism etc etc, that right there is why theres no kind of relativism between blacks and whites of that kind. So when a group of people all relate, and have the same history, same banter,; it's really fun and empowering.


Do you have any evidence to support your claim that all
Black people suffer racism every day?
Original post by tbeyan
not at all. Black people have a special connection between each other. We all experience racism everyday. We all have the same hardship. And white people always disagree and say we don't experience racism etc etc, that right there is why theres no kind of relativism between blacks and whites of that kind. So when a group of people all relate, and have the same history, same banter,; it's really fun and empowering.


Lol black people are all from the same backgrounds now? Since when?

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Reply 79
Avatar for Dheorl
Dheorl
17
Original post by tbeyan
not at all. Black people have a special connection between each other. We all experience racism everyday. We all have the same hardship. And white people always disagree and say we don't experience racism etc etc, that right there is why theres no kind of relativism between blacks and whites of that kind. So when a group of people all relate, and have the same history, same banter,; it's really fun and empowering.


So you're saying a black person from South Africa has the same history/banter (whatever you mean by that) as one from Mali and should be able to share this imaginary connection by segregating others? :rolleyes:

Why shouldn't I be able to host an all white party so I can share my common history with someone from Ukraine? :rofl:

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