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Original post by Doonesbury
Not if they have to pay much larger scholarships (because fees are higher) and for 70% of places...
Good thought.
But I'd think there'd still be enough profit to give free rides, even if the fees are higher. Not to the extent of Harvard or likewise, but still a notable number. 70% probably not. Alternatively, they could start charging EU students the same as overseas students to get more cash. I'm pretty confident fees for all new EI students will go up after leaving the EU.
It's conjecture whether it'd be better value for the poor or not. I mean they don't have maintenance grants anymore (in England) and they have have to get into an elite uni to get noteworthy bursaries.
They don't give free rides in America for medicine do they? I feel that'd be unrealistic here. Though the Scottish unis are giving free rides (with Govt help of course).
It just feels somewhat appropriate when over 40% of Ox's intake go to private schools, a significant number of which charge thousands upon thousands per term. I don't think it's an argument whether the major base of applicants can afford it, rather how it affects the poorer applicants.
I guess Harvard's slightly better at 37% but it's arbitrary to think that's down to its fee structure without empirical evidence. But then again, a third to two fifths of them are legacy students.
Original post by Kyber Ninja
They don't give free rides in America for medicine do they?
Medicine is postgrad in the US.
Original post by Doonesbury
Medicine is postgrad in the US.
I'm aware, but is there any funding for a full ride, even from public universities?
Original post by Kyber Ninja
I'm aware, but is there any funding for a full ride, even from public universities?
No idea...
Original post by Kyber Ninja
If they double their tuition fees they will have enough cash
But what about middle class kids whose parents refuse to support them? They won't get anything because of their parents earnings.
Original post by rickyrossman
But what about middle class kids whose parents refuse to support them? They won't get anything because of their parents earnings.
That's a problem now and they just end up working. Have quite a few friends like this, seems like it's a lot of people
Original post by Kyber Ninja
That's a problem now and they just end up working. Have quite a few friends like this, seems like it's a lot of people
Yea it can suck working and studying. Especially if you're doing something like medicine. But do you think privatisation would help? Even the most capitalist country in the world, the US, doesn't have entirely privatised education. US students who go to a state college pay an 'in-state' fee of like $14,000 which is roughly the same we pay. If we let british universities charge £18,000/year I imagine a large proportion will consider education in europe instead.
Original post by rickyrossman
Yea it can suck working and studying. Especially if you're doing something like medicine. But do you think privatisation would help? Even the most capitalist country in the world, the US, doesn't have entirely privatised education. US students who go to a state college pay an 'in-state' fee of like $14,000 which is roughly the same we pay. If we let british universities charge £18,000/year I imagine a large proportion will consider education in europe instead.
The rector of Imperial wanted Oxford, Cambridge, LSE and UCL to form a UK Ivy League to charge private fees. I guess his argument also rested on every other institution charging the same.
We already know how every uni thinks they're entitled to charge the same fees as Oxbridge, so they'll probably raise fees too.
Tbh, in america, there's less uni snobbery, since the content taugt is more uniform, so attending a state uni is often not a bad thing. I wouldn't mind personally, I just try and get into the best place I can, financially and academically.
this reform would solve some problems and make new ones. Though what the Rector really cared for was prestige and funds for Imperial, for which this move would've added. Imagine all the media attention and extra $ when there's an official subset in the already "elite" Russell Group.
Original post by Kyber Ninja
Tbh, in america, ... the content taugt is more uniform,
Is it? (Genuine question, I have no idea...)
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Original post by Doonesbury
Numerous academics at top universities have said the content is identical, with similar reading lists. What differs is the grading, i.e. 3.7 GPA counts for a fair more than a 3.7 GPA at X community college. All this being said on Quora.
There are some standout modules i.e. Math 55 at Harvard, but everything else is fairly uniform.
Frankly, in that system it has to be, Law, Medicine, Pharmacy, Dentistry, Veterinary Medicine are grad courses and they need to have good parity at UG to give people a fair chance. A lot of the unis also have the same exact module with the same name. If you google "Calculus I/II/III" you'll see lots of different students from different unis discussing it because it's identical across unis.
In all honesty, im not sure how different the courses are here; I've really only heard of Cambridge Maths being "different". The course page states it as the "most rigourous" too. Everything else just seems like more intense at Oxbridge due to term dates rather than content. Obviously grading is another problem. Bath hands out a lot more firsts for most subjects relative to Oxbridge, so that naturally seems odd. QAA better get on it.
Original post by Kyber Ninja
If they double their tuition fees they will have enough cash
If they doubled the current UG tuition fee, they'd just about cover costs. An UG degree costs £16-18k.
https://www.cam.ac.uk/notices/news/the-cost-of-undergraduate-education-at-cambridge-university
Original post by threeportdrift
If they doubled the current UG tuition fee, they'd just about cover costs. An UG degree costs £16-18k.
https://www.cam.ac.uk/notices/news/the-cost-of-undergraduate-education-at-cambridge-university
https://www.cam.ac.uk/notices/news/the-cost-of-undergraduate-education-at-cambridge-university
If they are privatised, they will charge a market rate, they will compete with the US Ivies and charge a similar amount.
Original post by threeportdrift
If they doubled the current UG tuition fee, they'd just about cover costs. An UG degree costs £16-18k.
https://www.cam.ac.uk/notices/news/the-cost-of-undergraduate-education-at-cambridge-university
https://www.cam.ac.uk/notices/news/the-cost-of-undergraduate-education-at-cambridge-university
Yup, it's now £18.5k (2015/16 data)
https://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/reporter/2017-18/weekly/6481/section1.shtml
Original post by Maker
If they are privatised, they will charge a market rate, they will compete with the US Ivies and charge a similar amount.
The international cost is probably nearer the market rate.
i.e. £27k-£37k (excluding Medicine, but including College tuition fees of approx £8k)
But they wouldn't be able to offer anything like the level of financial aid available to HYPSM
Original post by Doonesbury
Yup, it's now £18.5k (2015/16 data)
https://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/reporter/2017-18/weekly/6481/section1.shtml
The international cost is probably nearer the market rate.
i.e. £27k-£37k (excluding Medicine, but including College tuition fees of approx £8k)
But they wouldn't be able to offer anything like the level of financial aid available to HYPSM
https://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/reporter/2017-18/weekly/6481/section1.shtml
The international cost is probably nearer the market rate.
i.e. £27k-£37k (excluding Medicine, but including College tuition fees of approx £8k)
But they wouldn't be able to offer anything like the level of financial aid available to HYPSM
The so called top 5 would want to be at the same level as Harvard, Yale etc and price themselves at the same level.
They don;t have the money to offer the same financial aid as the US universities that have billions in their reserves and a lot of income from bribes also known as donations to let thickos study there.
Original post by Maker
The so called top 5 would want to be at the same level as Harvard, Yale etc and price themselves at the same level.
They don;t have the money to offer the same financial aid as the US universities that have billions in their reserves and a lot of income from bribes also known as donations to let thickos study there.
They don;t have the money to offer the same financial aid as the US universities that have billions in their reserves and a lot of income from bribes also known as donations to let thickos study there.
Yeah, American alums have a culture of being loyal to their uni and constantly donate money for their kids. 30-40% of students at places like Harvard and Yale are legacy. A significant minority of them don't even meet Cambridge's SAT cutoff; a university that doesn't have quotas (think about that for a second). I'd estimate about 35% would miss and wouldn't even get interview ed
Its worth mentioning though that even though they'd like to charge at that rate, its not so much better than somewhere like Warwick or St Andrews. They'd still need to compete with UK unis because there will be plenty of students you won't go there because of the fees. Consequently, if it happened, Id reckon they charge around 12k. Thats still about of extra money when you consider every undergrad/master collectively.
Original post by Kyber Ninja
Consequently, if it happened, Id reckon they charge around 12k.
So you believe they would be happy to be privatised and make a £6.5k loss on every student?
Original post by Good bloke
So you believe they would be happy to be privatised and make a £6.5k loss on every student?
A change in SFE policy would allow loans to private institutions..
I also am unaware on how much profit they're making per student currently, if any, with govt loans. @Doonesbury?
tbh, my only concern is that Oxbridge, Imperial and UCL (the main research powerhouses), are getting paler in comparison to US unis in terms of research. Teaching is fine and dandy, but you can only go so far without major financial backing.
Original post by Kyber Ninja
A change in SFE policy would allow loans to private institutions..
I also am unaware on how much profit they're making per student currently, if any, with govt loans. @Doonesbury?
I also am unaware on how much profit they're making per student currently, if any, with govt loans. @Doonesbury?
Doonesbury has already told us that a course costs the universities £18,500 annually on average. There is no profit.
Charging £12,000 annually per head is a recipe for catastrophe.
Original post by Maker
The so called top 5 would want to be at the same level as Harvard, Yale etc and price themselves at the same level.
They don;t have the money to offer the same financial aid as the US universities that have billions in their reserves and a lot of income from bribes also known as donations to let thickos study there.
They don;t have the money to offer the same financial aid as the US universities that have billions in their reserves and a lot of income from bribes also known as donations to let thickos study there.
The market has already determined their level - ie. the international fee.
Without checking that seems about a third less than the cost of HYPSM ?
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