The Student Room Group

"Let's put an end to gun violence by handing out more guns"

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Original post by D3LLI5
We don’t need them to survive but they’re the only real effective defence


Against what?
Original post by IDOZ
I got the name wrong, look on the website I linked


I'm not really sure what you're trying to show here? Some states are safer than others, but it doesn't show that they're safer than they would be if they had strict gun control laws?
Original post by IDOZ
I know that Florida is one of them


I think you mean that Florida is marginally less unsafe than some others. It is far more dangerous than Britain. Safe it isn't.
Here's an interesting take on the idea, which reflects what actually happened at the latest mass killing:

https://www.charlottefive.com/arming-teachers/
Original post by Good bloke
Here's an interesting take on the idea, which reflects what actually happened at the latest mass killing:

https://www.charlottefive.com/arming-teachers/
Unless you have experience with firearms I can't imagine any teacher would really want to be responsible for fending off an armed lunatic. But in saying that if I was a teacher and somebody like this attacked my school I would prefer to have access to a gun rather than access to no gun.
Original post by Drewski
Against what?


Tyranny
Original post by D3LLI5
Tyranny


You're deluded.
Original post by Drewski
You're deluded.


Yup. In 235 years there has been no tyranny in the USA (or Britain for that matter). What he really means is he reserves the right to bring down the lawful government if it does things he doesn't like and wants easy access to guns to make it easier.
Original post by Drewski
The irony is that the governments most likely to be tyrannical are the very ones supported by those who worship the second amendment.

And the notion that the political system in the US is remotely comparable to those in Turkey or Venezuela is laughable.

My first instinct would be to attack. But I've been trained how to by the military.
Any normal teacher's first instinct would be to protect their children and help them escape. And that's not going to depend on whether they have a gun.


Venezuela is socialist and turkey is a theocratic Islamic state, neither of which freedom loving Americans like.

Considering we now have a situation where people are being censored and even jailed for having inconvenient and not ‘politically correct’ opinions, the notion that there is a potential threat of tyranny isn’t too ludicrous.

How is a teacher supposed to defend the kids without a gun? Covering one or two kids as a body shield is hardly defending the them
Original post by Good bloke
Yup. In 235 years there has been no tyranny in the USA (or Britain for that matter). What he really means is he reserves the right to bring down the lawful government if it does things he doesn't like and wants easy access to guns to make it easier.


Human history stretches back a lot longer than 235 years
Original post by D3LLI5
Human history stretches back a lot longer than 235 years


Not to the US it doesn't, which is the purpose of this thread. You just keep derailing it because the facts don't fit your agenda.
The problem is you can't realistically get rid of guns in America, and you can't reliably keep them out of the hands of lunatics. Even if you put strong background checks in place, which I'm in favour of, there's going to be an enormous secondary black market just arising out of the sheer number of guns on the ground.

So, unfortunately, something has to be done. Personally I think armed guards should be considered, but putting guns in teachers' hands is not fundamentally illogical, as seems to be the general response to this.
Original post by Drewski
Not to the US it doesn't, which is the purpose of this thread. You just keep derailing it because the facts don't fit your agenda.


I think you’ll find most Americans acknowledge that history lasts a lot longer than 235 years.
Original post by TimmonaPortella
The problem is you can't realistically get rid of guns in America, and you can't reliably keep them out of the hands of lunatics. Even if you put strong background checks in place, which I'm in favour of, there's going to be an enormous secondary black market just arising out of the sheer number of guns on the ground.

So, unfortunately, something has to be done. Personally I think armed guards should be considered, but putting guns in teachers' hands is not fundamentally illogical, as seems to be the general response to this.


But we should listen to people who've actually handled such weapons before in combat situations. A poster on here who was in the military, and several other military figures, have described how difficult using such weapons while protecting yourself is, in the best of circumstances. And that's fully, military trained individuals.

Imagine asking a far less trained teacher to do so, while being shot at. There's also the strong argument that the teachers should be focusing on keeping the kids safe, not taking the gunman out like a hero in a movie.


This is a really good piece, worthy of a read:

https://www.charlottefive.com/arming-teachers/


The key bit is this:

'And now we are expecting teachers, even with training, to perfectly handle this situation. I say perfectly because anything less could mean even more tragedy and death. This isn’t a movie where bullets always miss the hero. These teachers aren’t action stars. These are average people, who more likely than not, have never come close to experiencing anything like this.

Few people actually run towards gunfire. Most search for cover. Some can’t function. Fight or flight. Adrenaline floods your body. Time doesn’t exist. Your heart beats outside of your chest. Fine motor skills stop working. People urinate and defecate themselves. Good luck holding steady aim at a moving target. Even the simplest of tasks, such as reloading can become difficult. Your hands shake for hours afterward. It’s chaotic on a level that is beyond comprehension until you experience it'
(edited 6 years ago)
Because it only being the nutters with the guns has worked sooooo well thus far...
Original post by D3LLI5
Human history stretches back a lot longer than 235 years


Really? You do surpise me.

More sensibly, how many USA governments have been tyrannical?
Solution: Ban buying guns like nearly every other country

Now get Quacking on that job Donald!
Original post by Good bloke
Really? You do surpise me.

More sensibly, how many USA governments have been tyrannical?


Not the US government per se, but have you ever read the declaration of independence?
Original post by Drewski
Not to the US it doesn't, which is the purpose of this thread. You just keep derailing it because the facts don't fit your agenda.


If you genuinely believe that the US governement has no history of tyranny, you're frankly not worth the time to have a discussion with.
Original post by Drewski
Not to the US it doesn't, which is the purpose of this thread. You just keep derailing it because the facts don't fit your agenda.


Well the second amendment, like much of the bill of rights, has its origins in the English Bill of Rights 1689, was that more or less than 235 years ago again?

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