Even being Pro-Trump didn't lose my as many friends as being Pro-Brexit did

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What's wrong with this?

Sure, polarization is bad. But you just have to show people the respect and listen, don't silence and abuse. But you don't have to be their friend.

Would you be friends with someone who thought it's ok to beat animals? Surely not. Now next think bout the next not quite as bad opinion and if you still want to be friends with them. If voting Brexit is sufficiently bad in people's eyes...mind you, this isn't just a political issue either, the entire debate was underlined with philosophical and moral issues.

Reply 21

Napp

Original post by yudothis

In fairness that is all Brexiteers do...

Reply 22

howitoughttobe

Original post by Fullofsurprises

you have to ignore all facts and place your trust in a completely unreasoned pile of poo. Viola! You are thus reborn as a Trumpista and science-denier.

Brexit voters are supposedly the ignorant ones but posts like this show that Remain voters clearly can be too.

Reply 23

yudothis

Original post by Napp

In fairness that is all Brexiteers do...

In fairness that is all that the regressive left does, too...

I have started following more right leaning people/media. I follow this woman on twitter who I'd have called a nutjob not a year ago because of her pro-god anti-abortion pro-gun ideas, but certain other issues i wholly agree with her.

Reply 24

Trinculo

The EU has transcended politics and become religion. There's no other explanation for the weird epiphany that millions of people seem to have undergone a couple of years ago from being completely indifferent about the EU, to the EU becoming central to the human condition and leaving the EU is somehow an existential crisis.

Reply 25

Napp

Original post by yudothis

What exactly is this regressive left? I've only ever heard it mentioned by a terrorist that nawaz fellow..
But any way why are the regressive left insulting themselves over brexit?

Might one ask who this woman is? It's not Hopkins is it?

Reply 26

yudothis

Original post by Napp

It's the left that applies authoritarian measures in the name of "progress". Think no-platforming, labeling others who don't agree as -ist and -phobic. Did I say over Brexit? I didn't mean Brexit specifically, apologies if the wording was poor. I meant the trans issue. It's trans activists against mostly women's rights activists (I shan't use feminist because 3rd wave or libfems are polar opposites to 2nd wave or radfems so really it's a term with sadly ambiguous meaning these days) who are, generalizing here, typically left. Hence also the hashtag #labourlosingwomen. One woman tweeted recently "I never had Tories send me rape and death threats". Which is what a very vocal part of this nonsense movement does.

She is American, that's about as much I know. I don't really want to name her handle as I want to keep my Twitter as anon as possible.

Reply 27

Trinculo

Original post by Rinsed

Especially when you consider what the EU has actually done. For all its claims to be one of the wonders of the world, it hasn't exactly presided over a European economic golden age...

I get that the EU blows its own trumpet. Of course I do - any organisation is always going to say it's great.

What I don't get is why so many people have become almost overnight religious zealots for the EU. This idea that there is no life outside the EU, and that there is nothing but economic and social catastrophe. On any intelligent scale, this is nonsense - else (and unfortunately to paraphrase Boris Johnson) it would assume that everything outside the EU is some kind of Mad Max apocalyptic world.

Reply 28

Trinculo

Original post by Rinsed

I think it all flows from the remain campaign. Like you, I get that they wanted to win, but when they realised the polls were closer than they expected they would be they just got increasingly, desperately bonkers. Brexit will cause WW3, everyone will be £4,300 worse off, blah blah. And yet, if you voted remain, you bought into that campaign. Ynou are now invested, and the human psyche dislikes being proven wrong very, very much.

One issue is that Remainers are in a lose/lose situation. If Brexit is a success they’re out of the the EU and they’ve been proven wrong. If Brexit goes badly then they’re living in a country that’s doing badly- but I get the idea that’s what many of them want.

Leavers on the other hand get to be out of the EU and might accept economic pain as an acceptable cost if it goes bad.

Reply 29

ChaoticButterfly

Original post by Trinculo

Well that's becuase we are now leaving it. It would be stupid to waste time thinking to much about the EU if you supported staying in it for conservative reasons. Leaving was the leap into the unknown. Staying was carrying on as normal.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 30

Trinculo

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

That is one way of looking at it.

On the other hand, you could also take the view that our 25 year flirtation with this European project as an abberation, given the centuries of history that European countries have as separate entities. The EU isn't even a speck of dust on that history, and possibly in years to come will be looked on as a failed oddity.

Nobody looks back on Belgium or Luxemborg as being parts of the Napoleon's France, or harks back to what could have been. Same with the GroBdeutchland. So surely the normal state of affairs is Britain having nothing to do with this weird project, and the mad leap into the unknown was 1992.

Reply 31

ChaoticButterfly

Original post by Trinculo

Well yeah. But we are tlaking about poeple who voted Remain in the referendum. I was very much wearing a conservative hat when i voted to remain. I'm not one of these radical Remaniacs that keep propping up all over the place. I;m not annoyed that the Leavers, who spent thier poltcial life campaigning for this, haven't got the faintest clue what to actually do. The left of the 1970s actually had full detailed plans on what they wanted to do once they left.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 32

Trinculo

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

I would assume that most people who voted Remain did so on the basis of an assumption of economic advantage. There are also a significant number who I believe are in some way in favour of a greater European state over the individual nation states.

Reply 33

Kenneth56

Original post by Trapz99

Brexit will fundamentally change our lives forever so obviously many people are going to be upset over their friend voting for Brexit if they feel that Brexit is going to have a negative effect on them and lower their quality of life.

Why will Brexit fundamentally change our lives?

Reply 34

Trapz99

Original post by Kenneth56

Why will Brexit fundamentally change our lives?

Leaving the EU means that Britain's economic and political ties to its biggest trading partner (the EU) will be significantly changed forever. Thousands of jobs are on the line, especially in industries like financial services, our universities could lose funding from the EU, farmers could lose their subsidies. Brexit is the most significant decision Britain has made in our lifetime (under 20s) and it will clearly have huge consequences. Both Remainers and Brexiteers agree that this is a monumental decision that will have a huge impact on our future.

Reply 35

Napp

Original post by Trinculo

In fairness only a fool would vote to make themselves worse off and for no tangible benefit...
You're forgetting also that some people view Brexit as a method to turn Britain into some ghastly little America. I for one would much prefer to be associated with a civilized Europe than that barbarous state.

Reply 36

Trinculo

Original post by Napp

Arguably there's no benefit to staying in the EU. It seems clear that they're on a Federalist course and that nothing is going to stop them. They've already wrecked a handful of countries who have seemingly no way out. How will Greece, Cyprus and Portugal ever recover? They have no means to do so. They are slowly and surely taking control of nation states with no responsibility, representation or consequence. This can't be an acceptable state of affairs for anyone.

As for the United States, it's not perfect, and at times far from perfect. The US, however has never tried to tell Britain who it can let in, what interest rates to set, or overuled British courts. The US has been generally friendly to Britain, something that cannot be said for many of the states of Europe, or indeed the EU itself.

Reply 37

hannah00

Its not a TRUE STORY - the author is LYING

by now you should be aware, websites fake articles and incidents to generate clicks

Reply 38

hannah00

Original post by Napp

rather be in a blue state in america, than poland, hungary or romania ie demographic future of europe.

Reply 39

Napp

Original post by Trinculo

I think the benefit is no probably economic carnage.
I would argue that personally i dont see much of an issue with that - I'd trust Brussells over Westminster any day of the week. They might have soppy bleeding heart liberals, as some put it, we have a deeply authoritarian moron whose raison detre seems to be to spy on people.
I'm not sure Portugal and especially Greece are the best examples - believe its best summed up with you reap what you sow. Leaving that aside what about the dozens of countries who've benefited? Eastern Europe, Northern and Western Europe have all done pretty well. To say we havent benefited immeasurably from it is simply a lie.

As for the United States, it's not perfect, and at times far from perfect. The US, however has never tried to tell Britain who it can let in, what interest rates to set, or overuled British courts. The US has been generally friendly to Britain, something that cannot be said for many of the states of Europe, or indeed the EU itself.

They've abducted British citizens, told us what to do and when [or else] and the courts more often than not work for the Americans - how many people have we been given by them compared to our government positively throwing our citizens at their dubious courts?
To say the EU has been hostile to Britain, would seem to me, to be a serious corruption of the truth. and as I said America has a long history of not being friendly to Britain remember our empire, suez, WWII debts, the falklands [granted we got a small measure of help but hardly anything worthy of note], theyre actively trying to screw us economically [as said by several members of both administrations]. To think that the US values us for anything other than our UN vote, as a gateway market to Europe or for anything that doesnt indirectly benefit them would seem to me to be deeply questionable.
Also who in Europe is actively hostile to us? We generally speaking get along with near all of them very well.

Not to mention the national dishonor of being a vassal state for them.