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Turning down a prestigious uni for a lower-ranking one?

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Reply 40
Avatar for Doones
Doones
21
Original post by howitoughttobe
No not just engineers. They actually work at universities.


So they don't work in industry... great insight.

Posted from TSR Mobile
If you ever struggle in finding a job etc, you may psychologically regret not going to the better university... not saying this will occur, but i feel like one should take the highest and most challenging offer. Your paying a large amount of money, in a world of alot of graduates... prestige matters.
Original post by howitoughttobe
Evidence?


See my first post here. Also I would agree that "what uni you went to" does not matter in technology or engineering. How would you explain how engineers like Carlos Slim or William F. Baker became so successful without going to more "prestigious" universities?

Furthermore, if you want more academic evidence, 2 studies by Dale & Kruger (1999, 2011) found that students who went to highly selective universities ("prestigious") ended up making the same amount of of money when compared to students who were offered places at "prestigious" universities but went to less selective universities instead. In other words, it didn't matter where the students went to university, they ended up being just as successful.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w17159

There are a very small handful of exceptional universities worldwide, but for 99% of students where you went to university doesn't matter anywhere near as much as university marketing departments would have you think. People that believe you will be better because you attended this or that university aren't basing that on any strong evidence (because there isn't any). It's usually more to do with buying in to marketing hyperbole and a misplaced sense of elitism. Or just plain snobbishness.
Original post by howitoughttobe
No not just engineers. They actually work at universities. Like top positions. I think they would know what makes an engineer more employable let's be honest.


But they have motive to favour top unis if they work at one. Have you asked them why they believe university prestige is so important? That would be a more beneficial question to discuss with them.
People have already given you some good advice but I just wanted to say, don't assume that the RG uni will have more academically inclined students - yes they may be 'smarter' based on their A Levels but they may be just as immature as any other group of people. I thought same as you before I picked my university and I've actually been shocked at the amount of laziness, immaturity and time wasting people on my course have shown - and this is me talking about a highly competitive course that is not at all easy to get into.
Original post by hysterria
I understand what you mean! I think I might fit in better with the student body at Edinburgh, the students there seemed more openminded and international, although you'll probably find all sorts of students at all unis so maybe I shouldn't worry about this too much.


Edinburgh does have a reputation for being a very, it's kind of hard to describe exactly, but liberal and active student body. Lots of guest lectures, lots of protesting whenever a new Starbucks opens (#Costalivesmatter), a very busy campus.

That's not to say that Aberdeen is quiet but it is very far away from the larger Scottish cities so attracting musicians, a prominent guest etc. is quite difficult.
Original post by Mesopotamian.
People have already given you some good advice but I just wanted to say, don't assume that the RG uni will have more academically inclined students - yes they may be 'smarter' based on their A Levels but they may be just as immature as any other group of people. I thought same as you before I picked my university and I've actually been shocked at the amount of laziness, immaturity and time wasting people on my course have shown - and this is me talking about a highly competitive course that is not at all easy to get into.


is it year one?..... lol telling first years it doesnt count at induction sets the tone... RG or not humans are rarely motivated when told by people in charge this doesnt significantly matter...
Original post by Realitysreflexx
is it year one?..... lol telling first years it doesnt count at induction sets the tone... RG or not humans are rarely motivated when told by people in charge this doesnt significantly matter...


It is indeed year one, but funnily enough, on my course we do have several assignments and all final exams counting towards the degree.
Original post by Mesopotamian.
It is indeed year one, but funnily enough, on my course we do have several assignments and all final exams counting towards the degree.


10 percent? lol thats most ive heard of, watch year 2 your classmates will approach things very differently or fail lol.

im year one too, the lack of effort is apparent but not that bad at my uni, i just dont even take account of said individuals some who will hopefully drop out past year one.
Original post by hysterria
Hi TSR,

I have an offer from a very prestigious RG uni, top 10 in the UK. Obviously I should be happy about having the opportunity to go to such a great uni, but I'm seriously considering turning it down in favour of a much less prestigious university (about 30 places lower in the league tables).

I've visited both unis and preferred the less prestigious one, because it's more of a campus uni, all a bit more small-scale, and the staff were much more friendly. It seemed to be a place that suits me better, and I also prefer the course content. It's also quite highly regarded for my course, hmore so than the RG uni. However, I do think that the people at the RG uni will be more academically inclined and since I'm quite academical myself, maybe it'll be easier for me to make friends there. And I've just read so much about attending a good uni really helping in further study/employment, so maybe it'd just be plain stupid to turn the RG uni down.

I'm really unsure of what to do, advice would be more than welcome :smile:


I didn't have quite the problem you do when I was choosing my uni, but I found that writing down +'s and -'s in a table to weigh them up helped me work out which I might enjoy more. It can be down to as much detail as you like. If that alone doesn't help, try awarding each +ve and each -ve item a number of points depending on their importance to you, for example 1-3, where 1 is unimportant, and 3 is very important. Then add/subtract depending on +ve or -ve, giving you a measure of enjoyment of each... hopefully? It's definitely not accurate, but it might help you to see what is and isn't most important to you.
Original post by howitoughttobe
Anecdotal evidence of one company doesn't really mean anything I'm afraid.


Suit yourself.

BAe Systems, Astrium, Airbus Industries, Lockheed Martin, Thales, Aerospatiale, MBDA, Raytheon, Boeing, SAAB, MBB, Finmeccanica, Hughes Aircraft Corporation, MoD, USDoD, ADM..........I think the point is made.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Doonesbury
So they don't work in industry... great insight.

Posted from TSR Mobile


You think that the director of studies at one of the top universities for engineering doesn't know what employers look for? And he has worked in industry you know.
Original post by uberteknik
High achievers are highly self motivated. If you need others to motivate you, I'm sorry to break it, but you ain't a high achiever.

The higher up the ladder you get, the lonelier it gets. That is a lesson you have yet to learn.


it is not a lesson i have yet to learn because I've graduated from St Andrews :smile:

and I am a high achiever. i didn't need others to motivate me, but it did have some impact along the way to help me become a...high achiever. it's also nice to mix with people who share your academic interests; at lower universities you are more likely to find people who aren't 'interested' in their subject but just want a degree.
Reply 53
Avatar for Doones
Doones
21
Original post by howitoughttobe
You think that the director of studies at one of the top universities for engineering doesn't know what employers look for? And he has worked in industry you know.


Which university?
Original post by Realitysreflexx
10 percent? lol thats most ive heard of, watch year 2 your classmates will approach things very differently or fail lol.

im year one too, the lack of effort is apparent but not that bad at my uni, i just dont even take account of said individuals some who will hopefully drop out past year one.


To be fair I'm not actually sure how much each year counts - we weren't told the exact percentages and the information isn't in the handbooks :s-smilie: But just the thought of anything counting sends me into stress zone.
And yeah I'm pretty much the same, I just study and do my own thing which is probably why I'm such a loner :rofl:
Original post by jestersnow
I made this post before, so I will share it again as it might help:

Dr Vikki Bolivier debunked the RG "elite" myth in 2015. She did a comprehensive study in to the various factors that make a university "elite" and found only Oxford and Cambridge could objectively be considered "elite". They formed the 1st Tier of UK Universities.

A 2nd Tier was made up using the remaining RG universities, but also included:

Aberdeen
Bath
Dundee
East Anglia
Goldsmiths
Heriott-Watt
Keele
Kent
Lancaster
Leicester
Loughbourgh
Reading
Royal Holloway
St. Andrews
SOAS
Strathclyde
Surrey
Sussex

Her research concluded that there was no evidence to suggest that (Oxbridge aside) Russell group universities were "Elite", and they were on a par with other pre-92 universities. She also suggested that the RG "Elite" status was a case of successful marketing and not based on any credible evidence.

http://dro.dur.ac.uk/14978/

Anecdotally, you will find many people (including me) who attended both RG and non-RG universities who will tell you they had a much better experience and gained a better education at the non-RG university. It really depends on the course, not so much what group a university does or doesn't belong to. Do not believe the marketing. Look at each course and the teaching on each course and decide based on that.


Yes, but OP is not comparing the Russell Groups with all non-Russell Groups. OP is looking at Edinburgh against Aberdeen, which the research does not address.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like the non-prestigious uni is better for your course than the RG uni. I suppose graduating from a RG uni is helpful in some aspects, but I wouldn't attend a RG uni just for the sake of it being a RG if there are non-RG unis higher on the league table for my specific course. That's just my opinion but I'm sure others agree.

I'm not saying I wouldn't go to a RG uni. I'm just saying I wouldn't steer clear of a non-RG uni because it lacks that label (unlike *some* students). By the sounds of it, you'd be much happier at the non-prestigious uni so I'd say go for it. And have fun at uni! :h:
Original post by jestersnow
See my first post here. Also I would agree that "what uni you went to" does not matter in technology or engineering. How would you explain how engineers like Carlos Slim or William F. Baker became so successful without going to more "prestigious" universities?

Furthermore, if you want more academic evidence, 2 studies by Dale & Kruger (1999, 2011) found that students who went to highly selective universities ("prestigious") ended up making the same amount of of money when compared to students who were offered places at "prestigious" universities but went to less selective universities instead. In other words, it didn't matter where the students went to university, they ended up being just as successful.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w17159

There are a very small handful of exceptional universities worldwide, but for 99% of students where you went to university doesn't matter anywhere near as much as university marketing departments would have you think. People that believe you will be better because you attended this or that university aren't basing that on any strong evidence (because there isn't any). It's usually more to do with buying in to marketing hyperbole and a misplaced sense of elitism. Or just plain snobbishness.


There are exceptions to every rule. Two people being successful doesn't prove anything. Plus one of them studied engineering and then made their success in business so if anything that only supports my point.

Those studies are from America and since the system is very different there, it doesn't necessarily apply to the UK.

University definitely makes a difference. A first from a Russell group is worth much more than a first from an ex-poly. Think about it logically. For example, some universities accept students with AAA and some accept students with BBC. The number of firsts etc. from each university doesn't vary so unless you honestly believe that the ones who accept BBC somehow magic their students to the same level as the ones who accept AAA, then the degree is clearly worth more from the one that accepts AAA.
Original post by Omar717
But they have motive to favour top unis if they work at one. Have you asked them why they believe university prestige is so important? That would be a more beneficial question to discuss with them.


Obviously they do but this was a private conversation had with them. They're my family, they want what's best for me. They're hardly going to lie to me. University prestige is important because better universities have a better calibre of students, their professors are better, their research is better and a first from them is better.
Original post by Doonesbury
Which university?


University of Manchester

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