The Student Room Group

Scroll to see replies

Original post by That Bearded Man
But that will put you at a disadvantage compared with other uni graduates. It is grossly unfair that people in my degree who needed to use an outdated coding system are disadvantaged against people from other unis who used the up to date program. "Transferable" skills are bull, that degree program automatically differentiates me as a lesser candidate because I've never used the programs required for Job A


Which coding system?

Posted from TSR Mobile
“Despite being awarded a First Class degree she attempted to disrupt her own graduation ceremony in 2013 as part of her dispute with the university, an action which would have damaged the experience for many other graduating students. The student was asked to leave the stage and sat in a room adjacent to it. She was free to leave at any time and got up and left, of her own accord, once the ceremony was over"

I bet she was admired by her peers and lecturers.
Original post by Phillip Banks
“Despite being awarded a First Class degree she attempted to disrupt her own graduation ceremony in 2013 as part of her dispute with the university, an action which would have damaged the experience for many other graduating students. The student was asked to leave the stage and sat in a room adjacent to it. She was free to leave at any time and got up and left, of her own accord, once the ceremony was over"

I bet she was admired by her peers and lecturers.


I should imagine they were all thinking 'thank heavens that's the last we'll be hearing from that weirdo... 5 years later...
Original post by Wired_1800
I think this will continue as students begin to realise that they have wasted their money, time and effort studying not-so-great courses at not-so-great institutions.

I have received flak for saying this on here and in real life, but young people need to wake up and start treating universities and courses like they treat us (customers). I honestly do not know what magic the woman expected the University at rank 72 to do for her. Educate her and send her to Goldman Sachs?

Nick Timothy was right, many kids are getting a rotten deal with uni.

https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/tuition-fees-are-pointless-ponzi-scheme-says-pms-former-top-aide-nick-timothy

https://www.google.com/amp/m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_599534aae4b06ef724d65175/amp


I concur. I too, have been excoriated for saying that, and for saying that a technical degree would be required for a job in that field [i.e. a degree in engineering in order to get a job as an electrical engineer].

From my perspective (across the pond), many of the so-called "degree" programs appear to be what would be qualified as a 'certificate' program here. I would feel that something like "hotel management" or "music appreciation" would be in that area. Before i started my bachelors degree program, i interviewed 5 or 6 practicing professionals in each of 5 different career paths - including medicine, law, and engineering. I asked (among other things), how much did they make, what would they do differently in their educational career (if they had it to do over), where did they see themselves in 5 yrs, 10 yrs, and what other options had they considered in their education.

I settled on engineering, and later went on to get a masters in electrical engineering from an accredited uni here. I got my bachelors in 1969, so i've been in business for a while. I think i made a good choice, having lived in 14 countries over my career. Now i just consult a little on the side to keep my hand in. Cheers.
Original post by Rabbit2
I concur. I too, have been excoriated for saying that, and for saying that a technical degree would be required for a job in that field [i.e. a degree in engineering in order to get a job as an electrical engineer].

From my perspective (across the pond), many of the so-called "degree" programs appear to be what would be qualified as a 'certificate' program here. I would feel that something like "hotel management" or "music appreciation" would be in that area. Before i started my bachelors degree program, i interviewed 5 or 6 practicing professionals in each of 5 different career paths - including medicine, law, and engineering. I asked (among other things), how much did they make, what would they do differently in their educational career (if they had it to do over), where did they see themselves in 5 yrs, 10 yrs, and what other options had they considered in their education.

I settled on engineering, and later went on to get a masters in electrical engineering from an accredited uni here. I got my bachelors in 1969, so i've been in business for a while. I think i made a good choice, having lived in 14 countries over my career. Now i just consult a little on the side to keep my hand in. Cheers.


I agree.

Although it has been mentioned before, i think there needs to be a radical re-think of tertiary education in this country.

If a student pays £9,000 for his non-STEM degree with 4 contact hours a week, while another pays the same for her STEM course with 25-30 contact hours, then there may be a problem. This is when the post-graduation prospects are completely different.

Also, I think there needs to be a new tiered system for universities. With this new system, students would realistically know where they sit in the grand scheme and what their prospects may be like. Then universities can charge fees according to their tier. Universities would move up and down the tiers, as annual independent performance reviews are done.
Original post by Wired_1800
I agree.

Although it has been mentioned before, i think there needs to be a radical re-think of tertiary education in this country.

If a student pays £9,000 for his non-STEM degree with 4 contact hours a week, while another pays the same for her STEM course with 25-30 contact hours, then there may be a problem. This is when the post-graduation prospects are completely different.

Also, I think there needs to be a new tiered system for universities. With this new system, students would realistically know where they sit in the grand scheme and what their prospects may be like. Then universities can charge fees according to their tier. Universities would move up and down the tiers, as annual independent performance reviews are done.


How do contact hours affect graduate prospects?

And contact hours are generally below 25 for STEMs too.

Attachment not found


Maths is about 15. Not hugely different to Law, about 13.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Doonesbury
How do contact hours affect graduate prospects?

How many contacts hours do steM (i.e. Maths) students have?


I think the average for Maths is about 16 hours for lectures. When you add Seminars and Supervisions, it can be up to about 20 hours per week.

I should just point out that this is average and it can be fewer or more hours.

For some other STEM courses like Engineering or Medicine, it can exceed 25 hours per week.
I think that if we're going to go down the road of publishing much more detailed and revealing stats on what graduate destinations as has been discussed previously in this thread (which I don't think is a bad idea, especially given the amount students are now expected to pay for their courses), students must also be advised that, in the vast majority of cases, securing employment after graduation isn't just about studying a certain course (at a certain institution). I think part of the reason why this case has arisen is that someone seems to have been under the impression that a degree equals a job; most employers are looking for a lot more than just a degree, though.
Original post by Wired_1800
I think the average for Maths is about 16 hours for lectures. When you add Seminars and Supervisions, it can be up to about 20 hours per week.

I should just point out that this is average and it can be fewer or more hours.

For some other STEM courses like Engineering or Medicine, it can exceed 25 hours per week.


See my edit with attached chart. And seminars/supervisions/tutorials are all included in the contact hours.

Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Doonesbury
See my edit with attached chart. And seminars/supervisions/tutorials are all included in the contact hours.

Posted from TSR Mobile


Can you provide a link to the evidence? The attached link does not work.
Original post by Wired_1800
Can you provide a link to the evidence? The attached link does not work.


You can't see the chart?

http://www.hepi.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/1.Higher_Educational_Report.pdf
Page 6.

And, again, how do contact hours affect graduate prospects?

Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Doonesbury
You can't see the chart?

http://www.hepi.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/1.Higher_Educational_Report.pdf
Page 6.

And, again, how do contact hours affect graduate prospects?

Posted from TSR Mobile


Yes, which? argues that average lecture hours for maths is 16.

Contact hours help the student to learn the material from staff. For example, medicine has many hours because they need sufficient time to learn from the relevant persons.

I think that more contact may lead to better understanding of the material which would lead to better performance. With better performance would lead to better prospects i.e. chance to attend top graduate programmes or employment.
Original post by J-SP
If contact hours are what determined course fees, we will be screwed when it comes to trying to recruit nurses.


I meant university performance determined course fees or a range of fees. Isn’t it crazy that a top and globally-renowned university charges the same as a low performing one?

I am not knowledgeable on nursing programmes, but i assume the current contact hours are sufficient.
Original post by Wired_1800
I agree.

Although it has been mentioned before, i think there needs to be a radical re-think of tertiary education in this country.

If a student pays £9,000 for his non-STEM degree with 4 contact hours a week, while another pays the same for her STEM course with 25-30 contact hours, then there may be a problem. This is when the post-graduation prospects are completely different.

Also, I think there needs to be a new tiered system for universities. With this new system, students would realistically know where they sit in the grand scheme and what their prospects may be like. Then universities can charge fees according to their tier. Universities would move up and down the tiers, as annual independent performance reviews are done.

That tiered system already exists. The TEF ratings are based on metrics that are adjusted for demographics/subjects of students to show the impact universities have. 1/3 of those metrics are based on employment data.
Original post by PQ
That tiered system already exists. The TEF ratings are based on metrics that are adjusted for demographics/subjects of students to show the impact universities have. 1/3 of those metrics are based on employment data.


It does not determine university fees. Many students at 18/19 probably don’t know anything about TEF, so a low performance may not influence their decision on where to study.
Original post by Wired_1800
Yes, which? argues that average lecture hours for maths is 16.

Contact hours help the student to learn the material from staff. For example, medicine has many hours because they need sufficient time to learn from the relevant persons.

I think that more contact may lead to better understanding of the material which would lead to better performance. With better performance would lead to better prospects i.e. chance to attend top graduate programmes or employment.


16, 15... Not 25, which is the more important point.

And yet there's no correlation between contact hours and graduate prospects.

Do you do any data analysis in your masters?

Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Doonesbury
16, 15... Not 25, which is the more important point.

And yet there's no correlation between contact hours and graduate prospects.

Do you do any data analysis in your masters?

Posted from TSR Mobile


The point was the difference in contact hours. Yes, there is no evidence to demonstrate a correlation.

I don't do a masters but an engineering undergrad. So, yes.
Original post by J-SP
That isn’t what your posts banging on about contact hours suggest.

But anyway, on your new point....

That’s what the TEF ranking was going to do, although has been put on the back burner as the Conservatives don’t want to be seen to be increasing tuition fees.

Based on university wide TEF, Anglia Ruskin would be able to charge more than LSE.


What? You misinterpreted what i wrote and then claimed that was my point.

The contact hours comment was just a point to differentiate STEM to non-STEM. The key point was a University performance based fee system.

If TEF is the highest independent review of a university’s performance, then i think it can be used as a metric to charge the range of fees.
Original post by J-SP
I didn’t misinterpret anything.

If anything is used, it will be TEF. But universities have too many other pressures on them at the moment to suggest that the government are not going to implement to range of fees aligned to TEF rankings. As and when TEF becomes established and the turmoil in universities calms down, then the policy could be brought forward again. Will be interesting to see how the OfS will influence this.


That is fair. We have to see what will happen in the future. At the moment, lecturers are worried about their pensions.
Original post by Wired_1800
It does not determine university fees. Many students at 18/19 probably don’t know anything about TEF, so a low performance may not influence their decision on where to study.

It was supposed to until Theresa May called a snap election and got scared away from allowing fees to rise with inflation.

It was also supposed to be used to determine which universities could sponsor visas for international students. Then LSE got a bronze and they got scared.

Latest