Church and tithing
Poll
The Church and Tithing (please read thread first)
I am beginning to explore the spiritual side of life and have become a member of a Church.
Obviously I understand that the religious groups have their own culture, just in the same way that any other group has; university students, professionals in any sector, and so on.
One thing I've been introduced to quite early on though is the idea of tithing - that is giving 10% of your salary to the Church.
Now let's be fair, any organisation be it a charity, individual person, or business needs money to continue operating.
Also I know it's fair to contribute to the Church if I am part of it.
All of this being said, the message seems to be to give to the Church rather than spend the money or effort doing good in God's name.
What do you people make of this, and of being introduced to tithing so early on? Am I reading too much into it, are the Church 'testing' my intentions by seeing if I'm willing to give, or are they basically being money grabbing?
Obviously I understand that the religious groups have their own culture, just in the same way that any other group has; university students, professionals in any sector, and so on.
One thing I've been introduced to quite early on though is the idea of tithing - that is giving 10% of your salary to the Church.
Now let's be fair, any organisation be it a charity, individual person, or business needs money to continue operating.
Also I know it's fair to contribute to the Church if I am part of it.
All of this being said, the message seems to be to give to the Church rather than spend the money or effort doing good in God's name.
What do you people make of this, and of being introduced to tithing so early on? Am I reading too much into it, are the Church 'testing' my intentions by seeing if I'm willing to give, or are they basically being money grabbing?
(edited 6 years ago)
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Seems like a scam to me, I dont believe in any god things but if the church runs on gods will make the god pay for it not the slaves who probably will never have as much money as a church makes a week.
Original post by mathperson
I am beginning to explore the spiritual side of life and have become a member of a Church.
Obviously I understand that the religious groups have their own culture, just in the same way that any other group has; university students, professionals in any sector, and so on.
One thing I've been introduced to quite early on though is the idea of tithing - that is giving 10% of your salary to the Church.
Now let's be fair, any organisation be it a charity, individual person, or business needs money to continue operating.
Also I know it's fair to contribute to the Church if I am part of it.
All of this being said, the message seems to be to give to the Church rather than spend the money or effort doing good in God's name.
What do you people make of this, and of being introduced to tithing so early on? Am I reading too much into it, are the Church 'testing' my intentions by seeing if I'm willing to give, or are they basically being money grabbing?
Obviously I understand that the religious groups have their own culture, just in the same way that any other group has; university students, professionals in any sector, and so on.
One thing I've been introduced to quite early on though is the idea of tithing - that is giving 10% of your salary to the Church.
Now let's be fair, any organisation be it a charity, individual person, or business needs money to continue operating.
Also I know it's fair to contribute to the Church if I am part of it.
All of this being said, the message seems to be to give to the Church rather than spend the money or effort doing good in God's name.
What do you people make of this, and of being introduced to tithing so early on? Am I reading too much into it, are the Church 'testing' my intentions by seeing if I'm willing to give, or are they basically being money grabbing?
Not every church asks for 10% [tithe mean a tenth] as other charitable donations are also part of giving. Some say after tax not of your full salary.
Is this a mainstream church?
Original post by RandomName12311
Seems like a scam to me, I dont believe in any god things but if the church runs on gods will make the god pay for it not the slaves who probably will never have as much money as a church makes a week.
I know where you're coming from, but with all due respect this isn't about whether or not you believe in God.
I'm asking about your views on giving money to the Church, being made to feel like this is something that you 'should' do, or if tithing is in fact an act of using your money and energy to do good in the name of your beliefs.
Original post by Muttley79
Not every church asks for 10% [tithe mean a tenth] as other charitable donations are also part of giving. Some say after tax not of your full salary.
Is this a mainstream church?
Is this a mainstream church?
Yes mainstream Church mate.
Original post by mathperson
Yes mainstream Church mate.
Look at the accounts which should be published annually. Is this C of E because that is not common if so?
What church is it?
In Ancient times- tithe meant 10% and you had to give that but that was old testament law and now we live under grace and it's not a requirement anymore. Personally I think if you can, and you're a genuine Christian and member of the church you should give. We are all called to be generous including with our money. Do what you can afford and what you can happily give. I don't believe in giving because you feel forced or you do it because you think God will be angry if you don't, both are false. You should give joyfully, whether that's pennies or £1000s.
I personally give monthly, it's nowhere near 10% because I genuinely can't afford that but I give what I can because I want to serve others with my money.
In Ancient times- tithe meant 10% and you had to give that but that was old testament law and now we live under grace and it's not a requirement anymore. Personally I think if you can, and you're a genuine Christian and member of the church you should give. We are all called to be generous including with our money. Do what you can afford and what you can happily give. I don't believe in giving because you feel forced or you do it because you think God will be angry if you don't, both are false. You should give joyfully, whether that's pennies or £1000s.
I personally give monthly, it's nowhere near 10% because I genuinely can't afford that but I give what I can because I want to serve others with my money.
Original post by Muttley79
Look at the accounts which should be published annually. Is this C of E because that is not common if so?
No not CofE.
To be clear I have no issue with contributing, and in a Church community it shouldn't just be people who have been there for 10+ years that keep the plae going as this will lead to a feeling of 'them and us'.
That said, for somebody who is exploring this side of life to be being encouraged to give 10% of their salary to the Church, as much as I love the people I come into contact with I must admit in all honesty this has my alarm bells ringing.
Whether they're doing it as some kind of strange internal 'test', or whatever, I don't know.
Original post by mathperson
No not CofE.
To be clear I have no issue with contributing, and in a Church community it shouldn't just be people who have been there for 10+ years that keep the plae going as this will lead to a feeling of 'them and us'.
That said, for somebody who is exploring this side of life to be being encouraged to give 10% of their salary to the Church, as much as I love the people I come into contact with I must admit in all honesty this has my alarm bells ringing.
Whether they're doing it as some kind of strange internal 'test', or whatever, I don't know.
To be clear I have no issue with contributing, and in a Church community it shouldn't just be people who have been there for 10+ years that keep the plae going as this will lead to a feeling of 'them and us'.
That said, for somebody who is exploring this side of life to be being encouraged to give 10% of their salary to the Church, as much as I love the people I come into contact with I must admit in all honesty this has my alarm bells ringing.
Whether they're doing it as some kind of strange internal 'test', or whatever, I don't know.
What denomination is this then?
Original post by mathperson
I am beginning to explore the spiritual side of life and have become a member of a Church.
Obviously I understand that the religious groups have their own culture, just in the same way that any other group has; university students, professionals in any sector, and so on.
One thing I've been introduced to quite early on though is the idea of tithing - that is giving 10% of your salary to the Church.
Now let's be fair, any organisation be it a charity, individual person, or business needs money to continue operating.
Also I know it's fair to contribute to the Church if I am part of it.
All of this being said, the message seems to be to give to the Church rather than spend the money or effort doing good in God's name.
What do you people make of this, and of being introduced to tithing so early on? Am I reading too much into it, are the Church 'testing' my intentions by seeing if I'm willing to give, or are they basically being money grabbing?
Obviously I understand that the religious groups have their own culture, just in the same way that any other group has; university students, professionals in any sector, and so on.
One thing I've been introduced to quite early on though is the idea of tithing - that is giving 10% of your salary to the Church.
Now let's be fair, any organisation be it a charity, individual person, or business needs money to continue operating.
Also I know it's fair to contribute to the Church if I am part of it.
All of this being said, the message seems to be to give to the Church rather than spend the money or effort doing good in God's name.
What do you people make of this, and of being introduced to tithing so early on? Am I reading too much into it, are the Church 'testing' my intentions by seeing if I'm willing to give, or are they basically being money grabbing?
Every church I've ever gone to has always spoken about giving back to Gods work, ie the church. I've learnt over the years that it is wisest to give to the church you belong to, to support them financially and let them use the money appropriately as and where needed. For example the church I go to runs homeless shelters twice a night. At these shelters they need to feed people and also pay to run the church throughout the night with electricity, gas water etc. If we don't provide funds to help with this type of work the church does who else will do it? The whole idea of tithing is based on the biblical principle of giving God back the best of the crop.
As well as tithing there are offerings which are additional monies you can give to whoever you like, such as particular charities you support or a local person you know is in difficulty etc. It is over and above your tithe.
But God wants you to give with a cheerful heart and only give what you can afford. Obviously God doesn't want you to get in debt. Some people can only give a few pounds each month and that's ok.
If you hold onto your money there won't be room for God to refill the pot so to speak, so you'll always just get by.
Giving is an act of faith too.
At the end of the day money is a meaningless necessity
.This is a good little link on the subject too....
https://billygraham.org.uk/answer/does-a-christian-have-to-tithe/
(edited 6 years ago)
if you say no, it will be looked down upon wont it. sounds very suspect to me to ask you so directly wihtout giving much option to say no, seems they like to have a tight grip on people. and aside from the money, do you realise you are supposed to love god more than your own family?? dont know why youre getting into this.
Original post by Racoon
Every church I've ever gone to has always spoken about giving back to Gods work, ie the church. I've learnt over the years that it is wisest to give to the church you belong to, to support them financially and let them use the money appropriately as and where needed. For example the church I go to runs homeless shelters twice a night. At these shelters they need to feed people and also pay to run the church throughout the night with electricity, gas water etc. If we don't provide funds to help with this type of work the church does who else will do it? The whole idea of tithing is based on the biblical principle of giving God back the best of the crop.
As well as tithing there are offerings which are additional monies you can give to whoever you like, such as particular charities you support or a local person you know is in difficulty etc. It is over and above your tithe.
But God wants you to give with a cheerful heart and only give what you can afford. Obviously God doesn't want you to get in debt. Some people can only give a few pounds each month and that's ok.
If you hold onto your money there won't be room for God to refill the pot so to speak, so you'll always just get by.
Giving is an act of faith too.
At the end of the day money is a meaningless necessity.
This is a good little link on the subject too....
https://billygraham.org.uk/answer/does-a-christian-have-to-tithe/
As well as tithing there are offerings which are additional monies you can give to whoever you like, such as particular charities you support or a local person you know is in difficulty etc. It is over and above your tithe.
But God wants you to give with a cheerful heart and only give what you can afford. Obviously God doesn't want you to get in debt. Some people can only give a few pounds each month and that's ok.
If you hold onto your money there won't be room for God to refill the pot so to speak, so you'll always just get by.
Giving is an act of faith too.
At the end of the day money is a meaningless necessity
.This is a good little link on the subject too....
https://billygraham.org.uk/answer/does-a-christian-have-to-tithe/
Hi,
Thanks for your post.
I know all this, I'm just asking about the forward approach
Original post by petalsunrise
if you say no, it will be looked down upon wont it. sounds very suspect to me to ask you so directly wihtout giving much option to say no, seems they like to have a tight grip on people. and aside from the money, do you realise you are supposed to love god more than your own family?? dont know why youre getting into this.
This is the thing, quite frankly it does make you wonder.
I've noticed there are little quirks about how people in religious circles talk that, quite frankly, subtly push you to essentially manipulate your actions.
What's said: "It's good to give to Church"
What's really meant: "It's bad to not give to Church"
I'm no shrinking violet, and I'll say things as they are.
No I don't mind contributing to any community I'm a part of, but no other club/society/community I belong to asks for a proportion of the gross amount of my salary.
Do I understand why they do this? Yes.
But frankly I think the reason they present (faith, God, doing good) is to a certain degree a front for "we want your money".
Don't agree? Then why do Churches associate tithing with giving money to the Church, and not by using the money to do good, be it through the Church or not? The Church wants my money to pass through their hands.
I do love going to Church.
I love the people, and I am enjoying exploring that side to life.
Really I am.
But I do wonder.
With regards to loving God more than your family, to be honest I think you're beginning to make out that these people are cultish. Realistically they're not, but I do question this money thing.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by mathperson
Hi,
Thanks for your post.
I know all this, I'm just asking about the forward approach
Thanks for your post.
I know all this, I'm just asking about the forward approach
God loves a cheerful giver
Came back on here to follow up this post.
Bit of background that perhaps I didn't give in the original post.
I wasn't raised a Christian, or any other religion.
I was an atheist my entire life, not a shouty one, but I didn't believe in anything and thought that all religions are illogical, etc.
At university I joined the atheist society.
Looking back this was a mistake because atheist societies claim to be against bad done in the name of religion and being covered up by the benefits that religious association affords. Realistically, they'll argue the toss with anybody on the street that claims to be of any religion, even though they're not themselves causing any problems.
I'm telling you this so that you know the extent to which I was removed from religion.
Now I've started going to Church, to be quite honest Im finding that I'm essentially being manipulated to give money.
As I said above, I know that any organisation needs money to survive if there are costs to be met; be it a charity, government organisation, or business.
But a Church is a group of people regardless of the building, and I've found that from an early stage of my attendance at the Church I've been spoken to about giving 10% of my gross income.
At this point, I just want to advise those waiting to wade into the conversation to provide me with basic information such as "tithe means 10%" that it is both unnecessary and doesn't relate to advice I'm asking for.
On one hand, I know it isn't right just for members who have been there for 30+ years to fund the place for everybody else.
On the other, I literally being made to feel it's a case of "we've accepted you into our building, now we want your money".
And lets be frank about this, all religious organisation are not short of money despite what they claim.
More generally, it's probably worth saying at this stage that I run my own business and doing well from it.
When people have found this out, they seem to be inviting me to do particular things that involve parting with some of my money.
1. Would the Church have been so pushy with giving if I didn't run my own business/or if they didn't know I did?
2. I've been invited to join freemasonry (not by somebody at the Church). I dont know much about this organisation but from what I've been told by the bloke who invited me, realistically I've ben left thinking "what's the point".
Would I have been invited if I didn't run my own business?
Money money money.
It's all people seem to want or be interested in.
Bit of background that perhaps I didn't give in the original post.
I wasn't raised a Christian, or any other religion.
I was an atheist my entire life, not a shouty one, but I didn't believe in anything and thought that all religions are illogical, etc.
At university I joined the atheist society.
Looking back this was a mistake because atheist societies claim to be against bad done in the name of religion and being covered up by the benefits that religious association affords. Realistically, they'll argue the toss with anybody on the street that claims to be of any religion, even though they're not themselves causing any problems.
I'm telling you this so that you know the extent to which I was removed from religion.
Now I've started going to Church, to be quite honest Im finding that I'm essentially being manipulated to give money.
As I said above, I know that any organisation needs money to survive if there are costs to be met; be it a charity, government organisation, or business.
But a Church is a group of people regardless of the building, and I've found that from an early stage of my attendance at the Church I've been spoken to about giving 10% of my gross income.
At this point, I just want to advise those waiting to wade into the conversation to provide me with basic information such as "tithe means 10%" that it is both unnecessary and doesn't relate to advice I'm asking for.
On one hand, I know it isn't right just for members who have been there for 30+ years to fund the place for everybody else.
On the other, I literally being made to feel it's a case of "we've accepted you into our building, now we want your money".
And lets be frank about this, all religious organisation are not short of money despite what they claim.
More generally, it's probably worth saying at this stage that I run my own business and doing well from it.
When people have found this out, they seem to be inviting me to do particular things that involve parting with some of my money.
1. Would the Church have been so pushy with giving if I didn't run my own business/or if they didn't know I did?
2. I've been invited to join freemasonry (not by somebody at the Church). I dont know much about this organisation but from what I've been told by the bloke who invited me, realistically I've ben left thinking "what's the point".
Would I have been invited if I didn't run my own business?
Money money money.
It's all people seem to want or be interested in.
Should have included in my last post:
As a christian, I'm not being pushed away from god by all of this.
But I am being pushed away from the church.
I'm not the sort of person that is easy to manipulate or does what other people say.
God isn't interested in money.
In fact the idea of giving 10% of your income to church isn't even a godly value.
It was mentioned in the bible towards the endof the story of the coat of many colours.
Long story short: a wise man advised a phaeroh to plan better for the future.
One of the ways in which he did this was to tell farmers to give 10% of their crop, in order that in the good times when harvests were plentiful food could be stored away for bad times.
In the best way possible, I feel that this simple story isn't just being used to show people that we need to plan ahead, but is literally being used by the church I'm at as a way of putting some kind of religious spin on "we want your money".
All this stuff about "god loves a cheerful giver".
Nonsense.
Any christian that thinks that god wants or even needs money is delusional.
My understanding is that god wants a relationship with you, not the contents of your current account.
I'm really starting to get fed up with the money talk at the church, and I will probably end up leaving and worshiping in private should it continue.
As a christian, I'm not being pushed away from god by all of this.
But I am being pushed away from the church.
I'm not the sort of person that is easy to manipulate or does what other people say.
God isn't interested in money.
In fact the idea of giving 10% of your income to church isn't even a godly value.
It was mentioned in the bible towards the endof the story of the coat of many colours.
Long story short: a wise man advised a phaeroh to plan better for the future.
One of the ways in which he did this was to tell farmers to give 10% of their crop, in order that in the good times when harvests were plentiful food could be stored away for bad times.
In the best way possible, I feel that this simple story isn't just being used to show people that we need to plan ahead, but is literally being used by the church I'm at as a way of putting some kind of religious spin on "we want your money".
All this stuff about "god loves a cheerful giver".
Nonsense.
Any christian that thinks that god wants or even needs money is delusional.
My understanding is that god wants a relationship with you, not the contents of your current account.
I'm really starting to get fed up with the money talk at the church, and I will probably end up leaving and worshiping in private should it continue.
Original post by mathperson
All of this being said, the message seems to be to give to the Church rather than spend the money or effort doing good in God's name.
Yep, a good spot on your part. Think that through.
Original post by mathperson
What do you people make of this, and of being introduced to tithing so early on? Am I reading too much into it, are the Church 'testing' my intentions by seeing if I'm willing to give, or are they basically being money grabbing?
What do you people make of this, and of being introduced to tithing so early on? Am I reading too much into it, are the Church 'testing' my intentions by seeing if I'm willing to give, or are they basically being money grabbing?
Tithing is frankly a scam. The "Church" like any other organisation is a "for profit" business. Just take a look at the utterly immense wealth of the catholic church and papacy. Just don't go there imo.
When I was younger and still duped by the whole religious "thing" I was in a "House" church which similarly asked people to tithe. There came a point when 2 long standing members of the church asked the elders if they could see the accounting books. This was a fair request because the church claimed to have an "open book" policy. They were refused this simple request and on pushing further realised that all was not fair and honest and that the elders didn't want people seeing where the money was going.
Those members, along with many other members, including myself, left the house church at that point.
Even if some part of you accepts that it is right to contribute to your church, ask yourself this question. What really is a fair contribution??
If your vicar/minister needs a salary same as everyone else, then if people are giving 10% of a salary then you only need 10 people to have then generated a full salary for that vicar. Yet the congregation probably runs into 100s of people in many churches so where is all the rest going?
There is absolutely no need to give 10%. Maybe 1% or 0.5% if you're resigned to tithe.
Overall I would question very strongly the entire religion and belief system when if come down to being an organisation that operates to collect money.
I've since come to realise that the entire thing is an extremely clever and potent psychological mind manipulation system which uses tried and tested and frankly very old psychological techniques. But regardless of that, it is clear that the Bible talks about people going out to do God's work in faith, which means having faith that your needs will be provided for. Asking your congregation to all cough up 10% is NOT having faith, that is simply a business operating under the guise of a church.
In the Bible (afaik) Jesus NEVER asked anyone for payment. He gave his words and wisdom freely, he gave his ministry freely, he gave his healing freely and he asked others to do as he did. The USA in particular has a massive multi-billion dollar industry geared around fake religion. They use psychological tricks to get people to cough up money and credit card details. They use guilt trips, they fake events, fake illnesses and all manner of things to get people to pay. They are frauds.
TRUTH is always simple, beautiful and FREE.
Anything that doesn't meet those criteria is false.
Churches effectively groom their flock in behavioural traits. People need to see that.
Why do you need that church at all? You can meet with other believers at ANY TIME and in ANY PLACE. You can worship your God anywhere. You don't need that church building to do it, you don't need fancy seats, or pews or benches. You don't need fancy candelabras and silver crosses on altars and all that razzamatazz.
Do you think Jesus would be interested in any of that if he came back today?
Nope, you wouldn't find him in any church, he would be out and about looking for the poor and those in need, the sick and infirm. In fact he would probably tear down the churches as he did the temples and money lenders in the past.
Your money, which you have worked hard for, is yours. Use it in the ways that feel right to you. If YOU see someone in need, then use your money to help (if money is what is needed). Clothe them, feed them, shelter them. Do not give your money to fraudulent organisations and NEVER EVER allow them to pressure you to do so or to let them use psychological tricks on you to make you cough up. Just walk away.
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