I ain't buying any of this 'International Womens Day' / female self promotion

Those real feminist intellectuals that we were reffering to on page one are starting to show up now and they are totally "rebuking" the arguments in this thread with those main weapons of feminism, insults and mockery.



"Here is a mantra, short one, that I give you. You imprint it on your heart and let every breath of yours give expression to it. The mantra is "do or die"." Mahatma Ghandi.

Sir, you have only resorted to mockery and abuse in this thread as your main arguments against me....as in your replies to my comments have been nothing but personal insults with no counterargument to speak of. How else do you expect me to take them but personally?

Mockery and vitriol cannot be justified under any circumstance and in any thread. They are always destructive and wrong no matter where you imploy them and whom you employ them against. If you think someone is stupid you expose and refute their stupidity with logic not with mockery and insults. Mockery and vitriol say more about you and what you stand for than they do about me and what I stand for.

"Mockery and ridicule rest on a false opinion and indicate an imperfection in he who mocks and ridicules.” Baruch Spinoza.

If you don't mind me joining in on this discussion, I decided to read up on the earlier mentioned mammogram argument, since I was interested in potential reasoning behind it. From what I've read, multiple surveys asked women, most of whom had had a mammogram, how they would feel around a male mammographer. Over 40% said they'd feel uncomfortable, and over 20% said they'd outright refuse without a chaperone present at all times. Based on this, and with the knowledge that women are the primary consumer of mammograms, doesn't it make sense to cater to their needs?

When you mention that, "There are no such restrictions on women in any area of radiology. As in women can work in all areas of radiology including those that involve the scanning of male sex organs without any restrictions...but men can't." You need to consider that, for one, companies will employ whoever is most profitable and most benefits their clients

and two, there's a lot more context and nuance surrounding these issues.

I also looked through some data from the UK GOV website about the NHS Breast Screening Programme. As you're probably aware, there's a very high demand for radiographers at the moment, specifically ones dealing with mammography. Since, based on these surveys, it is evident that women prefer female mammographers, it is perfectly rational to push more females in the direction of mammography.

I think what a lot of people on this discussion are missing is that the key point of intersectional feminism is everyone should be treated equally regardless of gender, race or sexuality. The aim of feminism (or at least the feminism I support) is not to advance women by disadvantaging men, but rather to ensure that from a young age, people of all backgrounds, ethnicities and genders are given equal opportunity from the get-go. Yes, you will always get some people who will use that ethos to their own advantage, or who slack off and then blame discrimination for being unable to progress in their careers, and that is wrong, but it's also a small minority of women who do that. It's unfair to tarnish all women with the same brush. It's also very important to understand there are varying degrees of privilege; for example, as a white female, I am 'privileged' in that I don't come from an ethnic minority, but I'm disadvantaged because I'm female, just as a black male would be disadvantaged due to his ethnicity but less so because he is a man. To say we don't need feminism is wrong. If we didn't need there would already be far more diversity in managerial positions. However, as it stands, there are more men named John running big companies than all women in the same position put together. Women aren't inherently lazy or worse at their jobs - that's a ridiculous assumption - women are just less likely to be promoted, most likely due to subconscious sexism.

It's also been mentioned on this thread that there are more pressing cases of discrimination than sexism, and to a certain extent, I agree. Racism, homophobia, transphobia nd xenophobia, to name just a few, are unfortunately widespread in today's society. But I would argue that intersectional feminism actually covers a lot of these bases. Even male suicide, which was mentioned, fit under this umbrella to a certain extent. One of the biggest pressures on men in out society is this 'toxic hyper masculinity' which is itself a result of internalised misogyny. Women are often (even subconsciously) viewed as weak. This means a lot of 'weak' behaviours are associated with women; crying, being afraid, asking for help, etc. And therefore these behaviours are seen as 'unmanly', leading to a lot of men, who are in need of support, feeling unable to seek it out, sometimes purely because they feel displaying these behaviours makes them 'weak'. By attempting to prevent internalised sexism in out society, feminism is actually beneficial for many men who find themself in these circumstances.

So in answer to the original question, no, you're not the only one who feels that way. Whilst that's your opinion and by law you're entitled to it, please look further into feminism, particularly intersectional feminism, before tarnishing us all with the same brush, or extrapolating from what you've seen online. It is usually the loudest, most aggressive 'feminists' that make the news, but a lot of these have a misandristic outlook, and aren't necessarily the ones that need to be heard. More often than not they do a poor job of representing a movement that in reality is about pressing for equality for all, regardless of gender, race, religion, class or sexuality.

A little rant as I've grown tired of this self promotion, self pitying mantra that young women are putting out on their social media.

In all my experience of University and working at an investment bank - when the class ended it was only boys who queued up to speak to the lecturer, it was mostly boys who asked questions in class, it was mostly boys who hadthe courage to lead socieites on their own. At work, 75% of the people sat at their desk at 7.30am when I arrived were men. In meetings, it was mostly men who spoke up. When 5pm came, it was mostly women who would shoot off. etc etc I could go on and on. These are all truths I saw with my own two eyes.

I honestly just don't get it. I want to stress that I think women are EVERY bit as capable as men. Yet in line with my previous paragraph, I absolutely don't think you deserve equal pay just by virtue of being a woman. I absolutely don't think that you are discriminated in the workplace when compared to men. My reasons for that are in the above paragraph. For every 1x woman, you have maybe 10x men in most situations related to work (and even sport). That's the thing, it all comes down to ratios.

A girl on Linkedin put a self promotion message up saying that during an internship at an investment bank she was told by a male intern that she was fillinf a quota, and that women are as capable as men etc etc. I'm sorry but, you generally are filling a quota. If we did it on probabilities, there are greater numbers of men out there in your shoes. That's not to say she's not as capable, but she is filling a quota. That's why there are women only breakfasts, women trading games, women only events, woman scholarships. I know of women who got into investment banks for the wrong reasons also (I'll let you work it out) - taking advantage of who they are basically - I suppose that is alright also? All of this and then you are discriminated against in the workforce? Really?

I've just grown tired of the attitude of modern day women. It's always me, me me, poor me and my discriminated life. You would think they were born with no arms and no legs - I find their self pitying incredible. My brother is autistic and he works at ASDA - that's where my sympathy and support goes.

Females have every bit of opportunity and power as men. Many say well society teaches us this and that and that we are not good enough. We need greater inclusion etc etc.. Tough! Do these woman ever stop to puase and think about the male suicide rate in this country and what society has done to these men to make them do that? Do they ever pause and think about something that doesn't relate to themselves, that carried far more importance? It's just not enough to justify the constant poor me attitude, I can't do anything because of men.

Another silly Linkedin post today by someone at McKinsey talking about a lecture given to men to not be scared of women in STEM degrees! They make it sound like men look up to women and think they are the Lionel Messi's in the workforce. I'd loveto have been there and asked her why less females apply for these roles! (hence less of them in the workforce). But of course, she probably would have said that they feel as though society has taught them this and that etc. Again, not good enough. I'd prefer some honesty like a lady on Linkedin who recently said questions what women are doing for each other? That they always expect from men.

I'm sorry but I just don't feel any sympathy towards women, just by virtue of being a woman. I find it insulting actually. There's much worse discrimination out there. It's funny that many women complain about being discriminated against, but are equally happy to use their body andposition to abuse their power and work their way into positions. Have you ever thought of the men who have been discriminated against in thos situations? I feel sorry for people who deserve sympathy, support and encouragement, like my brother. I think these are the people we should be supporting and encouraging.

Am I the only on with these thoughts?

Facts don't care what your gender is. The facts are: women aren't paid less than men for the same job, women get more charity and help from society despite being better off than men in most ways (health, lifespan, homelessness, murder rate, education, etc.), and women get away with far more wrongdoing. Women get like half the jail time for the same crimes, for crying out loud. And now with all these gender quotas and diversity commitments, it's not exactly women who need to worry about being discriminated against in industry.

Women in Western society have it pretty darn good right now.

There again with that silly word. The fact of the matter is that people differ on a number of spectra in terms of their raw ability and also their wherewithal to make use of it. What does calling it "privilege" add? Who is doing the "privileging" here? Nature? "Society"? Is it some form of original sin for which one owes penance? Or just a fact of life that people differ, that they therefore have differing ability to fulfill the demands of others and therefore differing ability to succeed in life. Let's throw in that said working class man has a great, supportive community, whereas the middle class medical student struggles to make friends. Still "privileged"?


Luckily, there is this thing called the scientific method, which allows us to study things that aren't us.

I'm still not seeing how it's "privilege" as opposed to simply being differences in individuals. It's a well studied phenomenon that individuals who lack the ability to maintain their parents' wealth, or indeed create wealth, will lose it. The reason I object to the language of "privilege" is because it fosters this illusion that any success enjoyed by such an individual is therefore unearned and somehow not due to them. If we really want to go down that route, pretty much every trait, including propensity towards putting effort into things, is heritable. So at that point we're simply left with the fact that nature does not work in "equals" but that traits are passed down on bell curve distributions, simply because of how natural selection works, and this is across a huge spectrum of traits, not the cute cardboard cut out "intersectional" version taught in universities. Therefore... what?



They don't seem "biased" to me but to be speaking from experience. If you want to say this is not generalisable, that's where broader studies come in. I mean if you want to go to studies, the fate of feminist claims is even bleaker insofar as the West is concerned. Personally I am in agreement with the OP, that much of what goes on in venues like LinkedIn, or large corporates, regarding "inclusivity", is narcissistic ******y.