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count dankula gets £800 fine

so count danukula otherwise known as nazi pug guy for those that don't know, has been given an £800 fine at his sentence.

I was watching this case with interest as it means a lot for free speech and is likely prosecution i could get I recently found out that potentially in the future I could get 15 years in prison so this scares me quite a bit.

all in all i think an £800 fine was a good result compared to what he could have got. but still think this seems rather concerning.

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The guy was either a neo-Nazi or an absolute idiot, either way he deserved to get some punishment for his hate-video. The dog might need denazification therapy too.
Original post by Axiomasher
The guy was either a neo-Nazi or an absolute idiot, either way he deserved to get some punishment for his hate-video.


I know you're joking, but even if you are an absolute idiot, the state should not be able to imprison or fine you for it.

The dog might need denazification therapy too.


LOL. That would make a great follow-up video!
Original post by chazwomaq
I know you're joking, but even if you are an absolute idiot, the state should not be able to imprison or fine you for it...


Where people say things in the public domain which are very easily recognisable as grossly offensive or threatening to a vulnerable group, as in this case, there should be accountability. If he had only had the dog responding to the Nazi phrases once or twice he might have got away with it but he went on and on and on with phrases like 'Gas the Jews' (which was pointed out in the sentencing). An environment of outright 'free speech' where anyone could say anything to anyone else at any time without consequence would make for a horrible society to live in.
Original post by Luke7456
so count danukula otherwise known as nazi pug guy for those that don't know, has been given an £800 fine at his sentence.

I was watching this case with interest as it means a lot for free speech and is likely prosecution i could get I recently found out that potentially in the future I could get 15 years in prison so this scares me quite a bit.

all in all i think an £800 fine was a good result compared to what he could have got. but still think this seems rather concerning.


Any punishment was too much and he isn’t the only case there is a few more I know of.
appropriate punishment
So comedians can’t make offensive jokes anymore, that’ll be the end of several careers
Reply 7
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Luke7456
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Original post by paul514
Any punishment was too much and he isn’t the only case there is a few more I know of.


actually i fully agree with you here. Any punishment is to much i believe in free speech. what I meant is I was expecting the guy to get a prison sentence so he came out of this better then i expected.

he had already been convicted so a sentence was assured.

ultimately dankula has not lost here, his channel has gained significant popularity over this issue when before it had hardly any subscribers. he will likely set up a patreon and have a career as a commentator on youtube sponsored by patreons if he has not already set this up. the court costs and fine he will pay will likely be significantly less then the earnings boost this will give him over the coming years.

the major concern is the legal precedent this sets and how it will affect our freedom as a society going forward.
This is only ever going to work if everyone who now does anything in support of an undesirable group is prosecuted - which won't happen.

Teaching a dog to do a Nazi salute isn't particularly harmful, but the guy has been prosecuted. This is the problem with anything to do with hate speech - there has to be some arbiter of what is or isn't hate, and this seems to be very much up to the whims of shifting political winds. There is much worse done every day with no thought as to it being prosecuted.
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Joe312
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Original post by Axiomasher
An environment of outright 'free speech' where anyone could say anything to anyone else at any time without consequence would make for a horrible society to live in.


Aren't you confusing freedom of speech with freedom to speak to whoever you want? Cause I've not heard anyone advocating the latter.
Original post by Joe312
Aren't you confusing freedom of speech with freedom to speak to whoever you want? Cause I've not heard anyone advocating the latter.


No.
Reply 11
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Joe312
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Original post by Axiomasher
No.


You said a society where anyone could say anything they want to any person at any time would be terrible.

That's not freedom of speech though is it.
Madness really, context can hardly be said to have been taken into account, this wasn't framed in a positive way for Nazism.
Original post by Joe312
You said a society where anyone could say anything they want to any person at any time would be terrible.

That's not freedom of speech though is it.


Eh?
He literally prefaced the video by saying he was doing the training because it was the most disgusting thing he could think of. He also said clearly that it was a joke.

Bad taste? Sure. Did it offend anyone? No. I'ts just a stupid video and people have launched a witch-hunt because of it.
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Joe312
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Original post by Axiomasher
Eh?


Ok let me explain a bit more -

The freedom to say whatever you want to anyone at any time... would surely include my having the right to invade someone's house to make them hear what I say. Or shout it from outside their house. Or stalk/harass someone following them around on the street all day shouting my political views at them.

No one advocates that.

As long as free speech is not infringing the safety or privacy of anyone else, the government should have no business interfering.

Explain what would be so wrong with a society which follows that principle.
Original post by Viva Emptiness
Madness really, context can hardly be said to have been taken into account, this wasn't framed in a positive way for Nazism.


Context isn't going to figure strongly where a guy makes a video the premise of which allows him to more or less chant 'Gas the Jews' 23 times. I don't move in such circles but I suspect that neo-Nazis in particular thought it was hilarious.
Original post by Joe312
Ok let me explain a bit more -

The freedom to say whatever you want to anyone at any time... would surely include my having the right to invade someone's house to make them hear what I say. Or shout it from outside their house. Or stalk/harass someone following them around on the street all day shouting my political views at them.

No one advocates that.

As long as free speech is not infringing the safety or privacy of anyone else, the government should have no business interfering.

Explain what would be so wrong with a society which follows that principle.


This is just pedantry though. I'm talking about making public communications which are grossly offensive to vulnerable groups. Given the actual history of Jews under Nazism such 'jokes' about gassing them are easily understood as an attack or threat. Nobody needs the freedom to do that kind of thing.
Original post by Axiomasher
This is just pedantry though. I'm talking about making public communications which are grossly offensive to vulnerable groups. Given the actual history of Jews under Nazism such 'jokes' about gassing them are easily understood as an attack or threat. Nobody needs the freedom to do that kind of thing.


He made it abundantly clear he thinks Nazis are terrible and it was clearly a joke, to suggest it could reasonably be considered threatening is nonsense
Original post by Axiomasher
Context isn't going to figure strongly where a guy makes a video the premise of which allows him to more or less chant 'Gas the Jews' 23 times. I don't move in such circles but I suspect that neo-Nazis in particular thought it was hilarious.


Context is always important. There is a huge difference between a guy making a joke on a webpage that no one is obliged to view, and someone going around literally advocating for jews to be gassed. What is that difference? Context.

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