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UCAS are racially profiling black applicants

Black people are 21 times more likely to be investigated for false or missing information than white people
The Higher Education system in the UK has come under fire again today after new figures reveal structural racism in the application process. An Independent report found that black applicants are 21 times more likely to have their university applications investigated for false or missing information than white students.

Figures show there were 42,580 black applicants, meaning that one in every 102 applications was investigated. During the same period, there were 388,465 white British applicants, meaning just one in every 2,146 applications triggered further

UCAS said it is “extremely concerned” by the figures and has launched an investigation.

Labour has accused the higher education system of “institutional racism” and demands urgent action to stop the “racial profiling” of applicants. This is because this is not the first major concern that UK universities are treating their black students unfairly in recent months. This year, several high profile incidents have exposed an inability (and unwillingness) to tackle abuse on campus.

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The thread title is totally misleading.

Firstly, the issue concerns UCAS not the universities.

Secondly, they haven't been rationally profiling anyone.

What David Lammy has been doing is asking for data that isn't usually broken down by race in pursuit of his agenda of institutional bias in the HE Sector. In this case, he asked for data on UCAS applications flagged for possible fraud or error and it turns out that a far greater percentage of black applicants' data has been flagged.

No-one has profiled for race. No-one knew the issue existed until Lammy's FIA request.

No-one yet knows whether the reasons for this discrepancy stack up. At the moment UCAS doesn't even know why the discrepancy exists.
I hate racism.
Original post by nulli tertius
The thread title is totally misleading.

Firstly, the issue concerns UCAS not the universities.

Secondly, they haven't been rationally profiling anyone.

What David Lammy has been doing is asking for data that isn't usually broken down by race in pursuit of his agenda of institutional bias in the HE Sector. In this case, he asked for data on UCAS applications flagged for possible fraud or error and it turns out that a far greater percentage of black applicants' data has been flagged.

No-one has profiled for race. No-one knew the issue existed until Lammy's FIA request.

No-one yet knows whether the reasons for this discrepancy stack up. At the moment UCAS doesn't even know why the discrepancy exists.


It is not a matter of belief. It is about the facts on the ground--which the author of the article has uncovered through the information under critique. There is clearly a discrepancy here between white and black applicants and the stats prove it. Your answer that the data is not usually broken down by race is not a good defense of the racial bias that has been uncovered. Clearly, UCAS is concerned enough to launch a full scale investigation. Lammy is a good politician and he is talking about what the white MPs don't want to talk about - race.
Original post by nulli tertius
The thread title is totally misleading.



Funny how, if it was a thread based on white people being disrespected by minorities or something because of their race no one would complain about a misleading title.
It seems to be that you think that Britain's universities have never racially profiled a black student.

Let me tell you, a former pupil of my school had the police approach him and ask him what he was doing at his former college in Oxford. Other students were also told to be vigilant yet he had recently graduated and was meeting one of his med friends.
Source: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/02/06/oxford-university-embroiled-race-row-students-told-vigilant/
so?...
Original post by physicseastldn
I hate racism.


Yep, but what can you do post-Brexit Britain is a country I no longer recognise.
Original post by Haviland-Tuf
Yep, but what can you do post-Brexit Britain is a country I no longer recognise.


It's a country I recognise.

Phil Woolas was a Labour Minister who thought that there would be votes in being beastly to Gurkhas. The British public thought otherwise and it cost him his job.

The current Home Secretary and the previous one have spent the last week dealing with the ire of the British public over their handling of the cases of elderly black Brits.

And at the moment they are on course to ill-treat a lot of Europeans living in the UK and if they don't sort it out, they will find the British public are rather sympathetic to Poles as well.
Original post by Haviland-Tuf
It is not a matter of belief. It is about the facts on the ground--which the author of the article has uncovered through the information under critique. There is clearly a discrepancy here between white and black applicants and the stats prove it. Your answer that the data is not usually broken down by race is not a good defense of the racial bias that has been uncovered. Clearly, UCAS is concerned enough to launch a full scale investigation. Lammy is a good politician and he is talking about what the white MPs don't want to talk about - race.


We do not know if there is racial bias and if there is, by whom.

These are UK applicants but if the triggers are prior education in systems with poor integrity, then it isn't very surprising. If Nigerian exam results are regarded as a cause for suspicion, it is perfectly understandable that most students with such results are black.

Computers can be racist. You can have scoring systems where each scoring decision looks reasonable but when looked at together one group is singled out.

Are black candidates getting less help so their mistakes remain uncorrected whilst white candidates are fixed?
Original post by nulli tertius
We do not know if there is racial bias and if there is, by whom.

These are UK applicants but if the triggers are prior education in systems with poor integrity, then it isn't very surprising. If Nigerian exam results are regarded as a cause for suspicion, it is perfectly understandable that most students with such results are black.

Computers can be racist. You can have scoring systems where each scoring decision looks reasonable but when looked at together one group is singled out.

Are black candidates getting less help so their mistakes remain uncorrected whilst white candidates are fixed?


We do know that there is a racial bias the stats prove it. You are right we don't know how it happened or what to fully attribute it to. That doesn't change the fact that there is a racial bias. I feel like you don't know what racism is. You seem very out of touch with everyday people.
Original post by Haviland-Tuf
We do know that there is a racial bias the stats prove it. You are right we don't know how it happened or what to fully attribute it to. That doesn't change the fact that there is a racial bias. I feel like you don't know what racism is. You seem very out of touch with everyday people.


There is a discrepancy. Not all discrepancies are due to a bias. Some biases are justified.

We don't know where we stand here. It seems unlikely that this is a straightforward prejudice by staff members. I wonder if there is a bias in the computer algorithm. If it had been calling for interview or requested grades or scoring personal statements I would much more readily suspect bias. I would love to ask Lammy what put him on to it or was it pinstickers' luck. The numbers are so low that he can't have been approached by a lot of black students/parents moaning about being flagged up.
Original post by Haviland-Tuf
We do know that there is a racial bias the stats prove it.

No, they don't. How do you know that it's not due to, on average, coming from poorer areas / schools, or some other factor that correlates with a particular race? You don't, and have jumped to a conclusion based on your lack of understanding of statistics. Fail.
Original post by nulli tertius
There is a discrepancy. Not all discrepancies are due to a bias. Some biases are justified.

We don't know where we stand here. It seems unlikely that this is a straightforward prejudice by staff members. I wonder if there is a bias in the computer algorithm. If it had been calling for interview or requested grades or scoring personal statements I would much more readily suspect bias. I would love to ask Lammy what put him on to it or was it pinstickers' luck. The numbers are so low that he can't have been approached by a lot of black students/parents moaning about being flagged up.


I wonder if this sort of thing is in any way related (BBC Panorama 'Student Loan Scandal') 13/11/17
The Independent, David Lammy and the Labour party are repugnant racialist agitators, wouldn't trust anything they write or say.
Original post by RogerOxon
No, they don't. How do you know that it's not due to, on average, coming from poorer areas / schools, or some other factor that correlates with a particular race? You don't, and have jumped to a conclusion based on your lack of understanding of statistics. Fail.


It would be interesting to know how many applications are from abroad too.
Why can't people admit that it's pure racism? Is it everyday "there has to be more to it" there isn't. Your excuses are LAME!!!!!
Original post by zhog
It would be interesting to know how many applications are from abroad too.


This is an issue around home students but there may be an international element why particular students were flagged. Look at my Nigerian example above.
Original post by Rainfall
Why can't people admit that it's pure racism? Is it everyday "there has to be more to it" there isn't. Your excuses are LAME!!!!!


Okay, please explain the processes of this racism. Half a million applications, many from overseas, a lot with funny sounding foreign names, are swirling round inside the UCAS computer. Tell me exactly how the Cheltenham branch of the KKK working in UCAS racially discriminates against a few hundred black Britons. What do they actually do?
Until there's more data it's impossible to reach the conclusion that anyone is racially profiling or biased against anyone else.

It's like saying 'because only 5% of Olympic long distance runners are white the IOC is biased against white people'. That's equally nonsense.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by nulli tertius
Okay, please explain the processes of this racism. Half a million applications, many from overseas, a lot with funny sounding foreign names, are swirling round inside the UCAS computer. Tell me exactly how the Cheltenham branch of the KKK working in UCAS racially discriminates against a few hundred black Britons. What do they actually do?


Lmaoo. What does a name have to do with grades or anything? Explain please...

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