Is anyone else furious with Jeremy Corbyn?
I seldom post in this forum but I had to vent. I am absolutely hopping mad that Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour frontbench are choosing not to support the EEA amendment which is being voted on next week, contrary to what the PLP and Labour Party members (not to mention Labour voters) want.
The Jezza faithful have tried to spin this as shrewdness, they say Labour doesn't have the numbers to defeat the government (false), and this is all part of some master plan to destroy the Tories. If they believe that, they'll believe anything. I despair that these people are running the only party that can stop brexit.
The Jezza faithful have tried to spin this as shrewdness, they say Labour doesn't have the numbers to defeat the government (false), and this is all part of some master plan to destroy the Tories. If they believe that, they'll believe anything. I despair that these people are running the only party that can stop brexit.
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Original post by Snufkin
I seldom post in this forum but I had to vent. I am absolutely hopping mad that Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour frontbench are choosing not to support the EEA amendment which is being voted on next week, contrary to what the PLP and Labour Party members (not to mention Labour voters) want.
Source that they've decided this?
As for your question, yup, but what did you expect? Corbyn is a committed Hard Brexiter.
There's a reason in each vote so far he's decided to whip for 'abstain' rather than against. It's the best way to reconcile the fact McDonnell/Corbyn are Hard Brexiters, without having to say they vote in agreement with the Tories. It's pretty sad but no one should be under the illusion that Corbyn cares what the party, or its members, think on this subject.
The thing is, Corbyn has been fine to let it be this way without being a credible opposition because he doesn't want Labour to be 'the remain or soft Brexit' party in any shape.
Original post by MrDystopia
Source that they've decided this?
As for your question, yup, but what did you expect? Corbyn is a committed Hard Brexiter.
There's a reason in each vote so far he's decided to whip for 'abstain' rather than against. It's the best way to reconcile the fact McDonnell/Corbyn are Hard Brexiters, without having to say they vote in agreement with the Tories. It's pretty sad but no one should be under the illusion that Corbyn cares what the party, or its members, think on this subject.
The thing is, Corbyn has been fine to let it be this way without being a credible opposition because he doesn't want Labour to be 'the remain or soft Brexit' party in any shape.
As for your question, yup, but what did you expect? Corbyn is a committed Hard Brexiter.
There's a reason in each vote so far he's decided to whip for 'abstain' rather than against. It's the best way to reconcile the fact McDonnell/Corbyn are Hard Brexiters, without having to say they vote in agreement with the Tories. It's pretty sad but no one should be under the illusion that Corbyn cares what the party, or its members, think on this subject.
The thing is, Corbyn has been fine to let it be this way without being a credible opposition because he doesn't want Labour to be 'the remain or soft Brexit' party in any shape.
I don't suppose we can say for sure that they've decided until the vote actually happens, but every indication is that they have. Keir Starmer made the case for why Labour couldn't support the EEA amendment on the Today programme yesterday, but the tabling of a separate Labour amendment is the real killer blow. Unlike the EEA amendment, the Labour 'full access' (cake and eat it) amendment does not have the backing of Tory rebels and therefore achieves nothing, except to take the wind out of the sails of the EEA amendment, which presumably was their intention.
Indeed, Corbyn is an old school Bennite Eurosceptic - but I thought he would do what was best for his own party and the country. I guess that's too much to ask.
Lol Who?? 😂 😂
Original post by Snufkin
Indeed, Corbyn is an old school Bennite Eurosceptic - but I thought he would do what was best for his own party and the country. I guess that's too much to ask.
Very likely he doesn't agree with you that EU membership or some simulacrum is good for the country. If you disagree you should have voted for Owen Jones. Your anger is unreasonable because Corbyn never claimed to be your man.
Original post by Observatory
Very likely he doesn't agree with you that EU membership or some simulacrum is good for the country. If you disagree you should have voted for Owen Jones. Your anger is unreasonable because Corbyn never claimed to be your man.
We're not talking about EU membership. Even if Corbyn does not think membership of EEA/EFTA is good for the country, his party and base does.
"One firm commitment I make to people who join our Labour Party is that you have a real say, the final say in deciding on the policies of our party... No-one – not me as Leader, not the Shadow Cabinet, not the Parliamentary Labour Party - is going to impose policy" - Jeremy Corbyn, 2015.
So he lied?
@Saoirse:3 I'd be interested in your assessment on this. Am I naive to hope that Corbyn's attitude towards Brexit will turn the membership against him?
Original post by Snufkin
@Saoirse:3 I'd be interested in your assessment on this. Am I naive to hope that Corbyn's attitude towards Brexit will turn the membership against him?
If Corbyn were to actually do something which very visibly pushed through a harder Brexit, I don't think so - for instance, if he was Prime Minister and deliberately allowed us to leave the EEA and/or end free movement. However, I don't think we're at that stage yet. His latest fudge is quite clever in that he's pushing an amendment which sounds very much like the EEA to a) casual followers and b) people who support him fanatically and want him to be right. The difference being that it won't pass, but also that it keeps up the idea that he could negotiate the kind of bespoke deal the Tories have spectacularly failed to. It's obviously the latter he'd fall back on if questioned on it.
I do think it's quite shrewd politics in terms of achieving his two goals - maintaining power in Labour, and securing Brexit. I think it's this that people don't understand. Corbyn is about changing society, not securing power for himself. If Brexit happens, he gets blamed and is replaced, but his structural reforms mean another leftist takes over and gets into government without what he sees as the "chains" of the EU, he's very happy. That's why he's willing to take these risks rather than score some very easy points against the Tories.
Original post by Snufkin
We're not talking about EU membership. Even if Corbyn does not think membership of EEA/EFTA is good for the country, his party and base does.
Membership of the common market is EU membership in all but name.
"One firm commitment I make to people who join our Labour Party is that you have a real say, the final say in deciding on the policies of our party... No-one – not me as Leader, not the Shadow Cabinet, not the Parliamentary Labour Party - is going to impose policy" - Jeremy Corbyn, 2015.
So he lied?
So he lied?
I don't know enough about how Labour is governed to comment. Is it possible for the membership to impose a certain policy, for instance at conference? Even if he did lie on that incredibly broad statement, though, I think it was always unreasonable to assume a leader would have no substantial input into policy.
I don't like the man tbh, lies to the people with a very unrealistic manifesto that was formulated to pray off the poor in order to scrape more votes. Points the finger at the rich and conservatives when it was actually Tony Blair's Labour party that introduced the stealth taxes that actually made income and wealth inequality more ripe than ever in the UK. He thinks that the rich will stay so he can tax them if he were to get elected, the rich will simply just leave and take their money with them. "the magic bank in the sky disappeared 
". Its this hate mongering that the terrorist sympathiser promotes that keeps the political pendulum swinging, the far left lies and messes up and then there is conservative, far right wing, backlash, happening across all of Europe right now. The Swedish general election will be a big wakeup call to the far left politicians such as Corbyn. But perhaps Obi-wan wants to just make a name for himself and then pack his bags and run free in the woods with the anarchists.
". Its this hate mongering that the terrorist sympathiser promotes that keeps the political pendulum swinging, the far left lies and messes up and then there is conservative, far right wing, backlash, happening across all of Europe right now. The Swedish general election will be a big wakeup call to the far left politicians such as Corbyn. But perhaps Obi-wan wants to just make a name for himself and then pack his bags and run free in the woods with the anarchists.
Original post by Snufkin
I am absolutely hopping mad that Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour frontbench are choosing not to support the EEA amendment which is being voted on next week
This does tend to suggest you are somewhat clueless about who and what Comrade Corbyn is. Aside from the fact that he is a complete con man, a duplicitous scoundrel, has a reprehensible history of supporting terrorists, he is quite unquestionably extremely anti-EU.
Therefore it should come as no surprise whatsoever that Jezbollah Corbyn will steer the party towards a BrExit situation as in place he wants to set up a Marxist state.
Worth Looney Labour supporters educating themselves on Corbyn's anti-EU history. Read on:
• Corbyn voted for Britain to leave the European Economic Community (EEC) in the 1975 European referendum.
• Corbyn opposed the creation of the European Union (EU) under the Maastricht Treaty – speaking and voting against it in Parliament in 1993. During the 2016 referendum campaign, Left Leave highlighted repeated speeches he made in Parliament opposing Europe during 1993.
• Corbyn voted against the Lisbon Treaty on more than one occasion in Parliament in 2008.
• In 2010, Corbyn voted against the creation of the European Union’s diplomatic service.
• Corbyn voted for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU in 2011 (breaking the Labour whip to do so).
• In 2011 Corbyn also opposed the creation of the EU’s European Stability Mechanism, which helps members of the Euro in financial difficulties. (This vote is a good example of how Corbyn votes with hardcore Euro-sceptics. Only 26 other MPs joined him in voting against, and in their number are the likes of right-wing Euro-sceptics such as Peter Bone, Douglas Carswell, Bill Cash, Ian Paisley Junior and John Redwood.)
• Corbyn opposed Britain’s participation in the EU’s Banking Authority in 2012.
• 2016 his long-time left-wing ally Tariq Ali said that he was sure that if Corbyn was not Labour leader he would be campaigning for Britain to leave the EU, whilst his brother Piers Corbyn also said that Jeremy Corbyn was privately opposed to Britain’s membership of the European Union.
• Corbyn went on holiday during the 2016 referendum campaign and his office staff consistently undermined the Remain campaign. He refused to attend a key Remain campaign launch and also attacked government ministers for publicising the Remain case, saying they should also have promoted arguments in favour of Leave vote. The Director of the Remain campaign, himself a Labour member and candidate, said, “Rather than making a clear and passionate Labour case for EU membership, Corbyn took a week’s holiday in the middle of the campaign and removed pro-EU lines from his speeches”. During the referendum campaign, Leave.EU highlighted Corbyn’s attacks on Europe made in 1996.
• The day after the European referendum in 2016, Corbyn called for the immediate invocation of Article 50 – the two year notice to leave the EU – much quicker than even Theresa May wanted.
• In December 2016, Corbyn voted in Parliament in favour of the UK leaving the EU and for the process to start no latter than 31 March 2017.
• Corbyn three times voted in February 2017 in favour of the Prime Minister starting the process of leaving the European Union.
• During the 2017 general election, the independent Channel 4 Factcheck service found very little difference between Corbyn and Theresa May over Europe.
• In the summer of 2017, Corbyn opposed Britain remaining in the Single Market. He even sacked from his team Labour MPs who voted in favour of membership of the Single Market.
and so on.
Wake up and smell the coffee imo. Jezzer is a Marxist con man who has a reprehensible history of supporting the IRA and other terrorists.
(edited 5 years ago)
What a nightmare scenario !
Corbyn - Unelectable
The Marxist "Labour" Party - Unfit to govern
Original post by Saoirse:3
If Corbyn were to actually do something which very visibly pushed through a harder Brexit, I don't think so - for instance, if he was Prime Minister and deliberately allowed us to leave the EEA and/or end free movement. However, I don't think we're at that stage yet. His latest fudge is quite clever in that he's pushing an amendment which sounds very much like the EEA to a) casual followers and b) people who support him fanatically and want him to be right. The difference being that it won't pass, but also that it keeps up the idea that he could negotiate the kind of bespoke deal the Tories have spectacularly failed to. It's obviously the latter he'd fall back on if questioned on it.
I do think it's quite shrewd politics in terms of achieving his two goals - maintaining power in Labour, and securing Brexit. I think it's this that people don't understand. Corbyn is about changing society, not securing power for himself. If Brexit happens, he gets blamed and is replaced, but his structural reforms mean another leftist takes over and gets into government without what he sees as the "chains" of the EU, he's very happy. That's why he's willing to take these risks rather than score some very easy points against the Tories.
I do think it's quite shrewd politics in terms of achieving his two goals - maintaining power in Labour, and securing Brexit. I think it's this that people don't understand. Corbyn is about changing society, not securing power for himself. If Brexit happens, he gets blamed and is replaced, but his structural reforms mean another leftist takes over and gets into government without what he sees as the "chains" of the EU, he's very happy. That's why he's willing to take these risks rather than score some very easy points against the Tories.
I don't think it's that clever, he just doesn't like the EU.
No. Although that could be do to with the fact that I am a Conservative.
Regardless, supporting the amendment would alienate the labour voters in the North who voted Brexit (in general) furthermore was this not in the Labour manifesto? Correct me if that assumption is incorrect by all means.
Regardless, supporting the amendment would alienate the labour voters in the North who voted Brexit (in general) furthermore was this not in the Labour manifesto? Correct me if that assumption is incorrect by all means.
I'm bored of Corbyn, bring on Emily Thornberry, Hilary Benn, Yvette Cooper or Chuka Umunna as leader to see how things go.
Original post by Snufkin
Kinda what they said they'd do the whole way along. The Labour manifesto in 2017 specifically rejects an EEA-style arrangement.
Jeremy Corbyn is, after all, pretty solidly Eurosceptic.
Original post by PilgrimOfTruth
This does tend to suggest you are somewhat clueless about who and what Comrade Corbyn is.
Not at all. I've never supported Corbyn, I've always known that he was a Eurosceptic. I'm not surprised at what he's doing, but that does not mean I cannot be furious.
Much of my anger is directed at people who do support him, Labour members who voted remain but won't do anything to stop a hard brexit.
Original post by L i b
Kinda what they said they'd do the whole way along. The Labour manifesto in 2017 specifically rejects an EEA-style arrangement.
I don't think it did. The Labour manifesto was deliberately ambiguous about Brexit, I don't remember reading anything about the EEA in it. It did say Labour would retain the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union, and that is only possible by full membership.
having a brexit policy that is basically a very very slight amendment of the conservative policy - is precisely what stopped a labour collapse in the last election.
Had labour came out in any way favouring remian, they would have been hammered by the working class, and abandoned by all the returning UKIP voters.
Instead they played a masterful game - they wrote a policy that was almost identical to the governments policy, but just worded differently, and using catchy slogans. You heard the tories come on and say 'We want a brexit that works for the economy' and then labour say 'We want a jobs first brexit' etc.
They took brexit off the table. It was barely discussed at all during the 2017 election, which was expected to be completly about it!How many times did we hear that the election would be a second referendum on brexit, it would be the brexit election? Why wasnt it - because by coming out with a brexit manifesto that matched the tories move for move, they made it an election where both major parties were unanimously pro-brexit. it stopped being the brexit-election entirely.
Instead we had an election about the NHS, Inheritance tax, Social policy, Investment, Nationalisation, etc. etc.
It was the best thing labour did.. and they would be wise to do it again.
Because you have to remember that whilst the labour members don't support brexit.. the voters you need to keep you relevant definitely do.
Had labour came out in any way favouring remian, they would have been hammered by the working class, and abandoned by all the returning UKIP voters.
Instead they played a masterful game - they wrote a policy that was almost identical to the governments policy, but just worded differently, and using catchy slogans. You heard the tories come on and say 'We want a brexit that works for the economy' and then labour say 'We want a jobs first brexit' etc.
They took brexit off the table. It was barely discussed at all during the 2017 election, which was expected to be completly about it!How many times did we hear that the election would be a second referendum on brexit, it would be the brexit election? Why wasnt it - because by coming out with a brexit manifesto that matched the tories move for move, they made it an election where both major parties were unanimously pro-brexit. it stopped being the brexit-election entirely.
Instead we had an election about the NHS, Inheritance tax, Social policy, Investment, Nationalisation, etc. etc.
It was the best thing labour did.. and they would be wise to do it again.
Because you have to remember that whilst the labour members don't support brexit.. the voters you need to keep you relevant definitely do.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Snufkin
I seldom post in this forum but I had to vent. I am absolutely hopping mad that Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour frontbench are choosing not to support the EEA amendment which is being voted on next week, contrary to what the PLP and Labour Party members (not to mention Labour voters) want.
The Jezza faithful have tried to spin this as shrewdness, they say Labour doesn't have the numbers to defeat the government (false), and this is all part of some master plan to destroy the Tories. If they believe that, they'll believe anything. I despair that these people are running the only party that can stop brexit.
The Jezza faithful have tried to spin this as shrewdness, they say Labour doesn't have the numbers to defeat the government (false), and this is all part of some master plan to destroy the Tories. If they believe that, they'll believe anything. I despair that these people are running the only party that can stop brexit.
Let me call a spade a spade.
Jeremy Corbyn is a sack of ****.
People go on about him being a man of wavering principle but there is more principle in someone like Enoch Powell then there is in Jeremy Corbyn. The 2017 Labour manifesto stated that Labour backed leaving the European Union, this is on page 24 of the manifesto and it states
"Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first."
Nowhere in this manifesto does it state that Labour would be looking at trapping us under EU rule through the single market or the customs union- we voted to leave the European Union in its entirity in the document David Cameron sent spending an extortinate 9 Million pounds on made this very clear that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market. They jumped on the Brexit bandwagon to win back ex UKIP voters it worked to a certain degree but lets be honest May didn't really campaign and still beat him.
They make no attempt in their 2017 manifesto to limit immigration one of the countries biggest election issues in almost every election- the overwhelming majority of the British public believe that Immigration is too high and many believe it is significantly too high. Its almost as if they oppose the majority of the country and the Labour voters vote for a party who no longer have their interests at heart.
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