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The Post-Messi Draft Final - chiggy vs Cxm / Marshmello's Dad

This poll is closed

Who wins? (Players to be judged at their peaks)

chigyy 50%
Cxm / Marshmello's Dad50%
Total votes: 14
We've made it, finally...

Tactics to follow

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chiggy ......................................................................vs...................................................................... Cxm
61E83DE7-E442-453C-862A-0B6C60461DD0.png vs 59B3FBC1-2982-4628-B581-6EEA75F7785D.png
(edited 5 years ago)
chigyy's Tactics

Spoiler

(edited 5 years ago)
Cxm / MD's Tactics

Spoiler

(edited 5 years ago)
@Marshmello's Dad @chigyy @bj27 @trapking @Zerforax @S.G. @Hazard28 @Malevolent

Poll open for 2 days
I think a massive weakness in Chigyy team is that there's absolutely no variation. His CDM are quite similar, they offer the same thing.

The two wingers/wide AM's both have similar playing styles.

Pogba is played out of position, yes he goes forward a lot but that's because he's a box to box midfielder, sticking him up there doesn't really work. He's probably played AM a dozen times in his career. Edit: Pogba has played CAM a dozen + 1 times (Opta)

Griezmann as the sole striker doesn't offer much either, he needs a big man with him, everyone knows that. There's no aerial threat, the only option Chigyy's forwards have is to play low crosses or try to penetrate the back 5. It's too limited. Needed a better variety of players.
(edited 5 years ago)
Reply 6
Avatar for S.G.
S.G.
22
Like chigyy’s idea of dominating the midfield. Completely worked out Cxm’s 3 there, but will read the thread later when deciding for an accurate judgement.
Reply 7
Avatar for bj27
bj27
21
Interesting.

Personally looking at the overlaps. Will Walker and Salah handle Hazard and Alba on the overlap? Telles and Neymar vs Azpi and Reus too.

Midfields both look good, with Kroos there's more emphasis on keeping the ball and he can release those two on the counter as well, though there is Kante and Fabinho there who will try and protect.

The real question is who is most likely to score. I think the issue is the lack of a box to box midfielder for Chigyys team. I guess 4 people up for the counter will be great if you can reach them though.

Feel like Griezmann will be isolated in the game which may be an issue, although one of his main strengths is being good at getting scrap goals from being isolated all game.
(edited 5 years ago)
Between the two chiggyy is winning the midfield battle, especially when all his forwards are capable of dropping deep and doing some of the dirty work. Can't say the same about players like Neymar and Salah that will be inclined to stay up the pitch naturally. For that reason I can imagine chiggy sitting deep and absorbing the pressure, winning the ball in deep midfield and then breaking with pace.
Original post by Hazard28
Between the two chiggyy is winning the midfield battle, especially when all his forwards are capable of dropping deep and doing some of the dirty work. Can't say the same about players like Neymar and Salah that will be inclined to stay up the pitch naturally. For that reason I can imagine chiggy sitting deep and absorbing the pressure, winning the ball in deep midfield and then breaking with pace.


Defending sure...But scoring. I don't see any way of his team scoring. 0 threat to my defence. All the same players, all will try the same thing. No real striker and we all know how important a world class striker is. So many team just 1 world class striker away from becoming an amazing team. Griezmann wouldn't stay in position, he would constantly swap with Reus and Hazard, making it even less likely to score
Original post by Marshmello's Dad
Defending sure...But scoring. I don't see any way of his team scoring. 0 threat to my defence. All the same players, all will try the same thing. No real striker and we all know how important a world class striker is. So many team just 1 world class striker away from becoming an amazing team. Griezmann wouldn't stay in position, he would constantly swap with Reus and Hazard, making it even less likely to score


Your defence is getting cut apart on the wings as you've chosen two fullbacks who are more attack oriented. Surprised no one called you out on this before, probably because we were all focused on your attack. Chiggyy could just attack down the wings where you're weakest.
Original post by Hazard28
Your defence is getting cut apart on the wings as you've chosen two fullbacks who are more attack oriented. Surprised no one called you out on this before, probably because we were all focused on your attack. Chiggyy could just attack down the wings where you're weakest.


Here
Original post by Marshmello's Dad


I doubt you're going to get into that defensive shape quickly enough when he has that kind of pace on the counter though.
Original post by Hazard28
I doubt you're going to get into that defensive shape quickly enough when he has that kind of pace on the counter though.


3 of my 4 defenders are faster than his wingers and striker...

Kovacic is faster than Pogba too..It would be a 5v4 in a worse case scenario
Original post by Marshmello's Dad
3 of my 4 defenders are faster than his wingers and striker...
?


Who's faster than who?
Reply 15
Avatar for bj27
bj27
21
Doesn't need a world class striker, needs someone who can play the others in.

Watching Griezmann for France and seeing how different he played with Giroud alongside him compared to playing as the lone front man is an issue.

I guess Pogba being close to Griezmann can mitigate that though but him having Kroos in the team kinda swings it in his favour atm especially if Kante is spending a lot of time sitting back. I criticised Cxm's tactics throughout this tournament for not having a guy to work in transition and just expecting the forwards to do the work which doesn't sit right with me, but Kroos and Kovacic are good at that(Kroos used to play this position under Guardiola/Heynckes, Kovacic while not the greatest is still an effective box to box midfielder for the formation)

Pogba also performs best in a 3 where he's given space to operate in that midfield, he was pretty ineffective at attacking midfield for José(who used him there in the same role for some big games in 16/17) and in 15/16. He also works bests in sides that aim to dominate possession of the ball. At Juve Conte was a guy who liked his sides being in possession of the ball which was what got Pogba doing so well under him.

That being said, I can see a Kante+Fabinho midfield doing a lot of defensive work which can free up the front 4, but Kante will need to be part of the transition play like he so often does at a 2 man midfield.
Original post by Hazard28
Who's faster than who?


Telles > Reus
Walker > Hazard
Varane > Everyone on the pitch
Kovacic > Pogba

Also don't forget, in my tactics I said I want him to play through the wings because there's no aerial threat..unless he wants to play low cross into a box with 5 defenders..
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Marshmello's Dad
Telles > Reus
Walker > Hazard
Varane > Everyone on the pitch
Kovacic > Pogba

Also don't forget, in my tactics I said I want him to play through the wings because there's no aerial threat..unless he wants to play low cross into a box with 5 defenders..


Nah cos at most you have 4 players back when you attack, and similarly he can break with 4 on the counter. So even in a 1v1, you have players like Telles and Walker who are more attack minded fullbacks that will need to stop Hazard and Reus. Even if they are as fast (not sure about Telles being quicker than Reus), they don't have the defensive quality to stop their man.
Reply 18
Avatar for bj27
bj27
21
Hazard and Walker are same pace and Hazard has better acceleration over the first 10 yards(Walker could catch up in a sprint if Hazard is on the ball though). But obviously Walker wouldn't get beat for pace unless he is clearly out of position. Walker's been less offensively this season too as a RB/CM hybrid. Telles probably the guy where you could attack as Neymar will do the square root of nothing defensively but will depend if Azpilicueta is given instructions to overlap or get chances to whip in crosses.

Telles and Reus probably same pace. Reus is seriously fast too.

Pogba is faster than Kovacic though. Pogba is ridiculously fast but because he's tall and the tactical genius Mourinho doesn't actually want him to go forward and attack people don't realise.

Original post by Hazard28
Your defence is getting cut apart on the wings as you've chosen two fullbacks who are more attack oriented. Surprised no one called you out on this before, probably because we were all focused on your attack. Chiggyy could just attack down the wings where you're weakest.

I did say I'd use my wingbacks on the last draft but whatever really.

Real Madrid have two offensive fullbacks that are trash at defending, with the left side in particular having no defensive stability whatsoever with Ronaldo there(in that hybrid striker/winger role he been doing) and they've got 3CLs in a row(with 2 of the same midfielders)
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Hazard28
Nah cos at most you have 4 players back when you attack, and similarly he can break with 4 on the counter. So even in a 1v1, you have players like Telles and Walker who are more attack minded fullbacks that will need to stop Hazard and Reus. Even if they are as fast (not sure about Telles being quicker than Reus), they don't have the defensive quality to stop their man.


Casemiro tucks into a back 4 when my players are up front. Varane follows Hazard/Reus, Casemiro marks the striker to cut passing lines, Boateng covers, Walker runs with Hazard. Kovacic follows Pogba's run

All 4 of his counter attacking players would have someone on them. Also pace and counter attack isn't the only way to win games. My team is more balanced, my team can both counter and keep possession. His team doesn't know what possession is. And tbh he's basically playing a 4-2-4, doing an Argentina.

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