Universities Are they Above the Law?
Oxbridge basically make the law, parliament looks like an extended oxbridge graduation party.
Universities Are they Above the Law?
Oxbridge basically make the law, parliament looks like an extended oxbridge graduation party.
Yes.
It's got better in the last 200 years but there's still a way to go. I think a lot of it stems through social class though.
It's got better in the last 200 years but there's still a way to go. I think a lot of it stems through social class though.
I think students of UK institutions need access to a much stronger due process, far greater consumer rights and access to independent lawyers.
There's too much traditionalist weight attached to the ancient perception of universities as academic institutions rather than fee charging service providers.
I didn't know all the details about the Office of The Independent Adjudicator.
Interestingly enough the London University where I'm studying seems to be the exception to the 75% ruling in favour of the university.
Every single student I know about that complained had their complaint upheld and sizable funds awarded to them- which they did not ask for and the university was very reluctant to pay until they received lawyers letters threatening publicity unless payment plus interest was received.
Not surprising- the university is notorious and plays host to a number of unsavorary elements on campus: bullying, weapons violence, racially targeted abuse and sexual assaults.
An undergraduate friend was sexually assaulted during an exam; the supervising staff member and other students in the room helped her and chased the perp out of the room.
She was then threatened with expulsion by the vile head of department if she involved police or ever told anybody.
When she used #metoo on twitter he labelled her a "rape liar", "p*** prostitute" then subjected her to a vicious and violent hate campaign for years.
Now she's too afraid of him to sign up for postgrad or even go to her graduation ceremony.
There's too much traditionalist weight attached to the ancient perception of universities as academic institutions rather than fee charging service providers.
I didn't know all the details about the Office of The Independent Adjudicator.
Interestingly enough the London University where I'm studying seems to be the exception to the 75% ruling in favour of the university.
Every single student I know about that complained had their complaint upheld and sizable funds awarded to them- which they did not ask for and the university was very reluctant to pay until they received lawyers letters threatening publicity unless payment plus interest was received.
Not surprising- the university is notorious and plays host to a number of unsavorary elements on campus: bullying, weapons violence, racially targeted abuse and sexual assaults.
An undergraduate friend was sexually assaulted during an exam; the supervising staff member and other students in the room helped her and chased the perp out of the room.
She was then threatened with expulsion by the vile head of department if she involved police or ever told anybody.
When she used #metoo on twitter he labelled her a "rape liar", "p*** prostitute" then subjected her to a vicious and violent hate campaign for years.
Now she's too afraid of him to sign up for postgrad or even go to her graduation ceremony.
If any student wants to know their consumer rights, the CMA produced an explanatory doc: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/415732/Undergraduate_students_-_your_rights_under_consumer_law.pdf. It is mostly about advertising, promises made therein.
Unis have broad discretion over academic matters, which makes them somewhat special. This needs to be so as there is no one else but a university who is qualified to determine academic matters, especially when you consider that "degree-giving powers" were jealously held historically by the Ancients.
I don't think this makes them a law unto themselves, as we have the OIA since 2004 which are a way to settle matters without costly litigation (which de facto eliminated challenges from students in the courts). This will no doubt still be the case for Consumer Rights Act 2015 claims, as most students are not concerned with compensation but remedying the issue so they can get on with their career.
For criminal matters, they do serve as a de facto police force and court system -- having their own security team and "fine" system. If the matter is serious enough it will go to the police, so I don't think it is a big issue. I agree with them taking on this role, as it means the local police are not overly burdened by drunken students being pests.
Unis have broad discretion over academic matters, which makes them somewhat special. This needs to be so as there is no one else but a university who is qualified to determine academic matters, especially when you consider that "degree-giving powers" were jealously held historically by the Ancients.
I don't think this makes them a law unto themselves, as we have the OIA since 2004 which are a way to settle matters without costly litigation (which de facto eliminated challenges from students in the courts). This will no doubt still be the case for Consumer Rights Act 2015 claims, as most students are not concerned with compensation but remedying the issue so they can get on with their career.
For criminal matters, they do serve as a de facto police force and court system -- having their own security team and "fine" system. If the matter is serious enough it will go to the police, so I don't think it is a big issue. I agree with them taking on this role, as it means the local police are not overly burdened by drunken students being pests.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Realitysreflexx
Oxbridge basically make the law, parliament looks like an extended oxbridge graduation party.
Oxbridge should be protected. It should be for the best of the best in the UK. A* at A Levels and Grade 8/9 at GCSE Level. No pandering to anyone. The real problem is social class, 95% middle class/upper class in this country is white, which just so happens to mean white men and women will dominate as they have been given the best private schooling education. But then the United Kingdom is a majority white country, so then the question of state students and ethnic students quotas come in ?
If they get the same grades as a private school student and it comes to a tiebreak, they should be given priority for admission
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by STw67
Oxbridge should be protected. It should be for the best of the best in the UK. A* at A Levels and Grade 8/9 at GCSE Level. No pandering to anyone. The real problem is social class, 95% middle class/upper class in this country is white, which just so happens to mean white men and women will dominate as they have been given the best private schooling education. But then the United Kingdom is a majority white country, so then the question of state students and ethnic students quotas come in ?
If they get the same grades as a private school student and it comes to a tiebreak, they should be given priority for admission
If they get the same grades as a private school student and it comes to a tiebreak, they should be given priority for admission
I said literally nothing about ethnic diversity or requested it....
All i said was almost all politicians are oxbridge graduates...which puts the universities at a very high standing in the government and makes them basically de facto above the law,
Just as me personally after i graduate would never go after, especially my own university.
Original post by londonmyst
I think students of UK institutions need access to a much stronger due process, far greater consumer rights and access to independent lawyers.
I cannot agree with you more. We need due process. This is hugely lacking at university level. It feels like universities are their own countries and above the law. The system is so very clearly corrupt and bias. If you have a legal issue with a university, the university gets access to the best lawyers, the best expert advice all courtesy of the tax payer. We students on the other hand have to pay for these privileges and what student can afford to pay 260 pounds an hour for a lawyer that they will need for hundreds of hours for 3 to 4 months? You can't afford to do that as a student. This often means letting the university get away with abuse, stealing your work, marginalising you, bullying you, even victimising you because you complained.
Universities have no fear of abusing and exploiting students because they set the rules, they have total control of the investigative process and they know students cannot defend themselves effectively against the mighty machine that is the university and its deep pockets. A machine that is not accountable to anyone for its actions. I'm going to give plagiarism as an example here. Plagiarism and theft of ideas from undergraduates and postgraduates is rampant at research level. I have three friends that are doing their PhDs and masters at different universities. All have suffered from this issue and all without one single exception say that they won't do anything about it because they know they can't do anything about it. The university processes protect those in authority and encourage them to exploit and abuse their students.
I agree with you. We also need access to lawyers free of charge. We need the judicial system to step up and hold these institutions to account for their actions in the form of fines, sanctions and in the case of sexual abuse and discrimination prison sentences.
Original post by londonmyst
There's too much traditionalist weight attached to the ancient perception of universities as academic institutions rather than fee charging service providers.
Yes. Again, I agree with you 100%. Add to this the fact that despite being fee charging service providers they don't feel like that at all. It doesn't feel like you are paying for a service at the university. Most of the time it feels like they are doing you a favour having you there. The environment at university encourages abuse of power. Those who pay the price for this abuse of power are the ones lowest in the hierarchy of the university, which at the moment is students.
Original post by londonmyst
I didn't know all the details about the Office of The Independent Adjudicator.
Interestingly enough the London University where I'm studying seems to be the exception to the 75% ruling in favour of the university.
Every single student I know about that complained had their complaint upheld and sizable funds awarded to them- which they did not ask for and the university was very reluctant to pay until they received lawyers letters threatening publicity unless payment plus interest was received.
Not surprising- the university is notorious and plays host to a number of unsavorary elements on campus: bullying, weapons violence, racially targeted abuse and sexual assaults.
An undergraduate friend was sexually assaulted during an exam; the supervising staff member and other students in the room helped her and chased the perp out of the room.
She was then threatened with expulsion by the vile head of department if she involved police or ever told anybody.
When she used #metoo on twitter he labelled her a "rape liar", "p*** prostitute" then subjected her to a vicious and violent hate campaign for years.
Now she's too afraid of him to sign up for postgrad or even go to her graduation ceremony.
Interestingly enough the London University where I'm studying seems to be the exception to the 75% ruling in favour of the university.
Every single student I know about that complained had their complaint upheld and sizable funds awarded to them- which they did not ask for and the university was very reluctant to pay until they received lawyers letters threatening publicity unless payment plus interest was received.
Not surprising- the university is notorious and plays host to a number of unsavorary elements on campus: bullying, weapons violence, racially targeted abuse and sexual assaults.
An undergraduate friend was sexually assaulted during an exam; the supervising staff member and other students in the room helped her and chased the perp out of the room.
She was then threatened with expulsion by the vile head of department if she involved police or ever told anybody.
When she used #metoo on twitter he labelled her a "rape liar", "p*** prostitute" then subjected her to a vicious and violent hate campaign for years.
Now she's too afraid of him to sign up for postgrad or even go to her graduation ceremony.
If I read this part of your comment before starting university I would have questioned its veracity. Having experienced university now I would not be surprised at all if this story is true. The things that I've seen people get away with at university are just insane. Corruption and abuse of students is pervasive and it can be shocking and the thing that scares me the most about this culture of corruption and abuse is that everyone just seems to kind of accept it and go with the flow.
(edited 5 years ago)
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