This discussion is closed.
xxxxvvvxcc
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 1 year ago
#1
Any doctors on TSR: Do you feel you are valued and appreciated in the NHS? This includes how appreciated you are by other members of staff, patients, everyone!

Would like to know how you feel you are perceived
0
ecolier
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#2
Report 1 year ago
#2
(Original post by xxxxvvvxcc)
Any doctors on TSR: Do you feel you are valued and appreciated in the NHS? This includes how appreciated you are by other members of staff, patients, everyone!

Would like to know how you feel you are perceived
No. Easy answer.

The thing is our pay has gone down by 21% in real terms (BMA figures) over the last 5 years.

We work well with other members of staff, because we are equally mistreated. The NHS really only works because of the goodwill of its staff, who's willing to stay late (volunteer) and do extra legwork out of their work schedule (e.g. me acting as a porter to take patients to scanners). Otherwise there's no way it'd all work.
8
Silentpercp2
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#3
Report 1 year ago
#3
(Original post by xxxxvvvxcc)
Any doctors on TSR: Do you feel you are valued and appreciated in the NHS? This includes how appreciated you are by other members of staff, patients, everyone!

Would like to know how you feel you are perceived
Funny, I was having this conversation with my colleague today(doctor) and he did say at times they do feel undervalued for various reasons.

Though, its obviously dependent from doctor to doctor as everyone's experience is different.
0
Leavemyarcelona
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#4
Report 1 year ago
#4
My other half is a doctor and finds it a bit of a nightmare tbh, she definitely feels undervalued.
0
xxxxvvvxcc
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#5
Report Thread starter 1 year ago
#5
(Original post by ecolier)
No. Easy answer.

The thing is our pay has gone down by 21% in real terms (BMA figures) over the last 5 years.

We work well with other members of staff, because we are equally mistreated. The NHS really only works because of the goodwill of its staff, who's willing to stay late (volunteer) and do extra legwork out of their work schedule (e.g. me acting as a porter to take patients to scanners). Otherwise there's no way it'd all work.
That's a shame because the amount of effort, skill, and time people undertake to become a doctor is immense and all that just ends to your opinions not being heard by the government and you being stretched to your absolute limit, all for the bare minimum of credit.

I was talking to a doctor, who is a radiologist, and he said the managers at his hospital have basically told him to just do the reports or something when he comes everyday (lol no clue what that is, hopefully that makes sense) and this means there's literally no time for anything else, like research, teaching etc.
0
FloralHybrid
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#6
Report 1 year ago
#6
(Original post by ecolier)
No. Easy answer.

The thing is our pay has gone down by 21% in real terms (BMA figures) over the last 5 years.

We work well with other members of staff, because we are equally mistreated. The NHS really only works because of the goodwill of its staff, who's willing to stay late (volunteer) and do extra legwork out of their work schedule (e.g. me acting as a porter to take patients to scanners). Otherwise there's no way it'd all work.
As someone who’s gone through many medical thangs and had much NHS experience - Thank you for what you do and some of the patients you have to put up with!

I think most people should know (or at least need to) that the complaints of the NHS ultimately come down to funding and cost cutting - Not the people within who work tirelessly.
1
federam
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#7
Report 1 year ago
#7
(Original post by ecolier)
No. Easy answer.

The thing is our pay has gone down by 21% in real terms (BMA figures) over the last 5 years.

We work well with other members of staff, because we are equally mistreated. The NHS really only works because of the goodwill of its staff, who's willing to stay late (volunteer) and do extra legwork out of their work schedule (e.g. me acting as a porter to take patients to scanners). Otherwise there's no way it'd all work.
Most people's pay has gone down in real terms
1
xxxxvvvxcc
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#8
Report Thread starter 1 year ago
#8
(Original post by Silentpercp2)
Funny, I was having this conversation with my colleague today(doctor) and he did say at times they do feel undervalued for various reasons.

Though, its obviously dependent from doctor to doctor as everyone's experience is different.
Yeah definitely, I'm sure there is discrepancy as to how someone feels they're valued, but as a whole I'm sure doctors would agree that they could be valued a heck more for what they do.

(In the UK btw, I'm not sure how much doctors are appreciated elsewhere, but I'm sure they are much more )
0
Silentpercp2
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#9
Report 1 year ago
#9
(Original post by ecolier)

So this is a race to the bottom now is it? Tell that to over 50% of FY2 doctors leaving training.
Not only doctors that leave their FY2 training. Do not forget those who work tirelessly behind you in a hospital environment. You lot are in the forefront however its us guys that have to take the back-bearing majority of the time.

We are all at a lost. Not only doctors I am afraid.
0
Silentpercp2
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#10
Report 1 year ago
#10
(Original post by ecolier)
I agree completely. I have very close ties with other trade unions and I did say in my earlier post that we are all mistreated.
I do see it on a daily though how doctors are pushed to their remits. They then give us the majority to work to do as they cannot keep up. :/.
I do sympathies with those that work in the NHS sector. Its not competent at present and I doubt it would ever be anymore unfortunately.
0
xxxxvvvxcc
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#11
Report Thread starter 1 year ago
#11
(Original post by ecolier)
I agree completely. I have very close ties with other trade unions and I did say in my earlier post that we are all mistreated.
How long do you think this will continue? Will there ever be a time when doctors (and medical staff) will ever be appreciated by the NHS and the government?
0
Democracy
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#12
Report 1 year ago
#12
I feel valued by patients, although I think some of them don't really understand how medicine works in the real world, which can sometimes lead to unrealistic expectations which need to be managed - I blame the media for this.

Perhaps I've just been lucky so far, but I haven't really had that many downright unpleasant patients. Relatives are actually much more likely to be difficult and unappreciative than the patients themselves imho.

From the employer side, I don't think politicians or the GMC value doctors and this then trickles down to the NHS. I think there is very little professional respect given to doctors and there is a lot of mindless arse-covering, micromanagement, and having to prove to all and sundry that you're not about to become the next Shipman (that ****er has a lot to answer for). Really I think the only people who have it as bad, or possibly worse, are teachers.

Obviously things aren't great as a junior doctor - moving yearly for different jobs, usually not being attached to a stable team in the hospital so you end up being a perpetual shift worker rather than being properly assigned to a set group of seniors who you can learn from during the course of a job, HR departments which mess up your pay/rota and don't reply to emails, very little in the way of employee benefits and so on. And then totally insane stuff like this - I mean, how do you not feel underappreciated if you've been through that?

That's not to say that life is a picnic for other NHS staff, but you asked about doctors so that's my take on it.
5
belis
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#13
Report 1 year ago
#13
(Original post by xxxxvvvxcc)
Any doctors on TSR: Do you feel you are valued and appreciated in the NHS? This includes how appreciated you are by other members of staff, patients, everyone!

Would like to know how you feel you are perceived
I think it really depends. In any given situation it is complicated. If I turn up in the police station for example in the middle of the night to do MHA and patient is trying his best to bite and kick me I do ask myself sometimes if it is going to be worth the £170 fee I get to do this assessment. On the other hand, I know that the police are most grateful that I got out of bed in my own time to help facilitate so that the patient can be taken out of their cell and to hospital. I know the AMHP values my flexibility and willingness to come out and see kids out of hours. There aren't many psychiatrists around willing to do section 12 work, particularly not for kids.

I do feel valued by my employing Trust. I felt valued as a trainee and they did bend over backwards to accommodate all my learning needs and make my life pleasant from the choice of placement to self-rostering of my on calls. If I was to look at the monetary aspect alone I could feel undervalued with for example internal on call rates for consultant being £36 per hour. On the other hand in the day job, I have a nice 7.5 to 2.5 clinical to SPA split. Plenty of time to pursue my own interests and a lot of control and flexibility over how my working day look like. That is worth more to me than earning after a certain point yu have to give 40% away as tax anyway.
0
federam
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#14
Report 1 year ago
#14
I
(Original post by ecolier)
Absolutely.



We do a lot of things for free, like research and teaching (for me anyway, there are people who do them for extra money!)



So this is a race to the bottom now is it? Tell that to over 50% of FY2 doctors leaving training.
What was the leaving rate before financial crash than? Because they still earn a lot of money. If NHS did go privatised people wouldn't afford as much as they struggle as it is, so the pay would be worse, when NHS was born I think doctors and nurses wages doubled.
0
seaholme
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#15
Report 1 year ago
#15
I don't feel at all valued by my employer, that is for sure. By patients, yes I do feel valued for the most part. By colleagues it really depends on who they are and where I've worked.

As an employee I get told at the last minute what I am doing (the rota) even though this affects essential aspects of my life like holidays and personal plans for instance whether I am on call or doing nights. If I let them know that I want time off in advance I am told it is impossible to organise until the rota for that segment is released - and then when it is released nobody has made any effort to try to put me on normal shifts that I can take as holiday, so I have a stressful time trying to swap shifts and often end up having to cancel plans because nobody cared to even try to help. This also ends up being unnecessarily last minute because they won't accept advance warning because the 'rota is not written' despite the fact it's just a rolling rota they provide for every job every year, and they could easily organise it so I might be able to take some days holiday. I have missed friends weddings, birthdays, holidays and important family events for no particular reason due to this.

Despite having the same employer repeatedly I am made to essentially re-apply for my job when I rotate around, which takes hours of my time and means me coming in on my annual leave to do it, just because they seemingly can't share or keep records. Nobody will give me a contract to explain I am on a 2 year training programme, forcing me to get friends/relatives to be guarantors for my rent, just so I can have somewhere to live, because it looks like I am only ever employed for 6 months.

If I call in sick (thus far, about once every 2 years) I am made to feel like a piece of crap for doing so by those I inform, for leaving the service short. Even one day of sickness triggers a return to work interview where I fill in a form and basically say in the future I guess I'll try not to be physically unwell. If you don't tell them you've returned to work in the proper way they just stop paying you, despite clearly knowing you must be back.

If they are short of staff at work you can be moved from your job to do a completely different job at any time with no warning. You can also just end up doing the job of multiple people and just expected to do so with nobody ever saying anything to you. Various recent legal cases have shown that it is somehow your responsibility to highlight that this is unsafe - despite the gaps being clearly present on the rota for all in charge to see. You can be moved from a day to a night shift, besides which you can be essentially blackmailed into doing additional locum shifts with various people suggesting that it will be 'unfavourable in the eyes of your seniors' (who write your reports, and are often the ones implying the above threats) if you do not do so. If you are moved from the day to the night shift you are often not paid accordingly. You will almost certainly be paid wrong when you start working somewhere so you should be on the alert. You will have to pay for the privilege of parking in your own work place. There's no tea/coffee facilities for staff so you'll also pay for that.

We are supposed to be 'in training' and have a whole host of training requirements, which we are not scheduled any time to complete and when we ask how we are supposed to complete the requirements given how short of staff things are that we literally have no time, are told to come in on days off. We are expected to sit and pass exams which we pay for and do in our own time, with costs of at least £500 a sitting, yet cannot progress through 'training' without. We are expected to use an extremely simplistic online portfolio that again you cannot go through your training without - and expected to pay £800 for the privilege just for access. We are told to attend mandatory training days that you cannot pass through training without attending (literally 2 in a whole year) and then we are told we cannot be spared from the hospital to attend them, so then comes the stress of trying to swap with people just to go to something which is supposedly mandatory and they could easily have thought about beforehand to free you up to go.

Despite ironically working for an organisation that cares for people, the NHS also gives no time off for compassionate leave - if a relative dies then that's your annual leave if you want to go to their funeral. And speaking of annual leave you have to bend over backwards with endless swaps and requests just to get more than a few days off.

There's more stuff but basically I think the above summarises why I really feel like I have zero value as an individual to the places I work. They know people have to work for them no matter how they are treated and you've got nowhere else to go anyway. My only value is as a name on a box (representing a real person, unlike the many lines of 'colleagues' who represent fake people) on a rota.
19
Smile88egc
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#16
Report 1 year ago
#16
I think the UK public don't really have a concept of how much healthcare costs and so when they walk out of A&E with their vomiting toddler after 4 hours, they don't realise they've just had £500 odd of care free at the point of delivery. If they did they would perhaps display more gratitude to those delivering it.
When I qualified 7 years ago the NHS was properly funded and have noticed the difference year on year, and now after almost a decade of the austerity pay cap plus not being able to deliver the quality of service we'd like to, it's very wearing for all NHS, particularly clinicians and public facing admin staff that have to bear the brunt of patient dissatisfaction.
The public need to wake up and realise if they want a well functioning NHS, they're going to need to pay more in tax to get it (or stop cutting corporation tax).
The market for doctors is now a global one and better pay (and much better working conditions) can be found elsewhere.
3
xxxxvvvxcc
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#17
Report Thread starter 1 year ago
#17
(Original post by Smile88egc)
I think the UK public don't really have a concept of how much healthcare costs and so when they walk out of A&E with their vomiting toddler after 4 hours, they don't realise they've just had £500 odd of care free at the point of delivery. If they did they would perhaps display more gratitude to those delivering it.
When I qualified 7 years ago the NHS was properly funded and have noticed the difference year on year, and now after almost a decade of the austerity pay cap plus not being able to deliver the quality of service we'd like to, it's very wearing for all NHS, particularly clinicians and public facing admin staff that have to bear the brunt of patient dissatisfaction.
The public need to wake up and realise if they want a well functioning NHS, they're going to need to pay more in tax to get it (or stop cutting corporation tax).
The market for doctors is now a global one and better pay (and much better working conditions) can be found elsewhere.
Do you think in the future, if conditions stay as they are, doctors will just start moving out of the country?

I know already some do, just haven't looked into how many do per year and whether they're increasing or not.
0
federam
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#18
Report 1 year ago
#18
(Original post by ecolier)
The number of successful FY2s progressing directly into specialty training has fallen year-on-year since 2011: from 71.6% in 2011, 67% in 2012, 64.4% in 2013, 58.5% in 2014, 52% in 2015, 50.4% in 2016 to 42.6% in 2017. (There was no records kept before 2011)

No one knows that will happen if the NHS is privatised, your opinion is as valid as the next man's.

I would never say doctors earn "a lot of money", do you actually know what an FY1 / FY2 / CT1 / CT2 / ST3+ earns?

Also, do you know what responsibilities are there? That we have to pay for our own exams / GMC / insurance? That we are criminal liable if things go wrong?

If you know of / are a doctor then please state this - it's hard to argue with someone who doesn't actually know much and is just saying "oh but doctors earn so much".
Oh this makes me laugh so much

FY1 - 26K as a starting salary, thats very good
FY2 - 30K thats still very comfy, even as they are in training
CT1 - 36K barely anyone earns that amount
CT2 - Same
CT3 - 46K thats a very wealthy income

You tell me how many people earn 36K.

Oh yea, I've found the link why don't you continue on what you was saying... for should I?
"
Although fewer doctors are progressing directly from foundation training to specialty training, they are continuing to apply for specialty training, even if they take a year or more break before doing so. In fact there are still more doctors applying for posts than there are positions available in the first year of specialty training and, in 2015, 12 033 doctors applied for the 8545 posts available (fig 1).
"
0
federam
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#19
Report 1 year ago
#19
(Original post by ecolier)
The number of successful FY2s progressing directly into specialty training has fallen year-on-year since 2011: from 71.6% in 2011, 67% in 2012, 64.4% in 2013, 58.5% in 2014, 52% in 2015, 50.4% in 2016 to 42.6% in 2017. (There was no records kept before 2011)

No one knows that will happen if the NHS is privatised, your opinion is as valid as the next man's.

I would never say doctors earn "a lot of money", do you actually know what an FY1 / FY2 / CT1 / CT2 / ST3+ earns?

Also, do you know what responsibilities are there? That we have to pay for our own exams / GMC / insurance? That we are criminal liable if things go wrong?

If you know of / are a doctor then please state this - it's hard to argue with someone who doesn't actually know much and is just saying "oh but doctors earn so much".

Oh that makes me laugh so much
FY1 - 26K as a starting salary thats a lot
FY2 - 30K thats very comfy
CT1/2 - 36K barely anyone earns that much
CT3 - 46K now who earns that

You tell me how many people earn 36K

Oh yea, I've found the link why don't you continue what your saying...
" Although fewer doctors are progressing directly from foundation training to specialty training, they are continuing to apply for specialty training, even if they take a year or more break before doing so. In fact there are still more doctors applying for posts than there are positions available in the first year of specialty training and, in 2015, 12 033 doctors applied for the 8545 posts available (fig 1⇓). "


Don't say lies, be glad of your good salary and reputation that comes with being a doctor, they earn good money. Median salary is 25k the average salary is not 50% above and 50% below.
3
Anonymous #1
#20
Report 1 year ago
#20
(Original post by Mathemolic)
Oh that makes me laugh so much
FY1 - 26K as a starting salary thats a lot
FY2 - 30K thats very comfy
CT1/2 - 36K barely anyone earns that much
CT3 - 46K now who earns that

You tell me how many people earn 36K

Oh yea, I've found the link why don't you continue what your saying...
" Although fewer doctors are progressing directly from foundation training to specialty training, they are continuing to apply for specialty training, even if they take a year or more break before doing so. In fact there are still more doctors applying for posts than there are positions available in the first year of specialty training and, in 2015, 12 033 doctors applied for the 8545 posts available (fig 1⇓). "


Don't say lies, be glad of your good salary and reputation that comes with being a doctor, they earn good money. Median salary is 25k the average salary is not 50% above and 50% below.
Please tell me how many people have to repeatedly stay after hours in their job, have to work nights and weekends on regular basis, may be called into work on a very short notice, cannot really take a sick day and are literally constantly responsible for someone's life. + having to spend considerable amount of their income on necessary insurances, memberships and exams.
0
X
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Did you vote in the 2019 general election?

Yes (353)
46.26%
No (81)
10.62%
I'm not old enough (329)
43.12%

Watched Threads

View All