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Are Africa and the Middle East lost causes?

Even with all the foreign aid that other countries have been providing them, it seems these two areas are just absolutely incapable of forming or maintaining a fair, safe, non-corrupt or successful society / economy.

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Who knows?

You can only go so far in blaming slavery and empires. Ultimately it’s corrupt governments and lack of resources.
Reply 2
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Napp
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Original post by Lopau6
Even with all the foreign aid that other countries have been providing them, it seems these two areas are just absolutely incapable of forming or maintaining a fair, safe, non-corrupt or successful society / economy.


Define 'lost causes'?

I mean as far as areas go, in particular the ME, it matters not if the area is a 'lost cause' or not its far too important to be left alone. Not to mention you have two extremes there i.e. civil war and what not in place such as Syria and Iraq but in the Gulf kingdoms it is, for all intents and purposes, peachy. Even Iran is doing rather well, despite its economic woes.

A point for you to bear in mind though. You appear to be looking at these places through a western, liberal, democratic and indeed thoroughly modern moral framework. Whilst there is nothing wrong with doing that, per se, It should be noted that from a realist perspective it simply doesnt work doing that for certain places. Equally, specifically on the democracy front, democracy would likely be a thoroughly bad thing for several of the countries in this region. To take a couple of examples; in a 'democratic' society white farmers [to use a hoary old cliche] would be strung up by the masses in south africa. Nigeria would [and some would say is] imploding through ethnic conflict. And finally we have seen the popular will writ large in countries like Syria, Iraq and to varying degrees Lebanon where the popular will of the people is simply incompatible amongst the various ethnicities/sects/tribes/religious groups. I wont go as far as blaming colonialism for all of these countries woes but a simple fact that cannot be ignored is that the boundary drawing done by the former colonial powers was sloppy, half arsed and frankly moronic in a lot of cases when it lumped together utterly different peoples into a single country - the same sort of argument that is being peddled by anti-immigration activists in europe now, now that i come to think of it.

Food for thought.
Reply 3
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Original post by Andrew97
Who knows?

You can only go so far in blaming slavery and empires. Ultimately it’s corrupt governments and lack of resources.


I wont dispute the corrupt governments bit as by all metrics these areas are positively famous for their cronyism and general corruption. But in relation to the resources bit a fair whack of these countries are richly endowed with resources be they oil, metals, fertile land etc. Incompatible ethnic groups and, of course, corrupt governance play the more saliant role in these countries strife [in ones opinion]. After all we can look at Libya, Iraq, Congo, Nigeria etc. all of whom are rich in wealth, on paper, but are imploding to vairous degrees.
Can’t really blame them when Britain screwed up about a third of the world
Original post by akbar0123
Can’t really blame them when Britain screwed up about a third of the world


did u even read the OP?

"Even with all the foreign aid that other countries have been providing the"
Original post by RickHendricks
did u even read the OP?

"Even with all the foreign aid that other countries have been providing the"

Giving foreign aid to the countries you once invaded and pillaged is like putting a little finger bandage on a shotgun wound. It’s nothing compared to the damage that Britain and other countries did.
Reply 7
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Lopau6
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Original post by akbar0123
Giving foreign aid to the countries you once invaded and pillaged is like putting a little finger bandage on a shotgun wound. It’s nothing compared to the damage that Britain and other countries did.


Looks like someone has BlameTheWhites derangement syndrome. Africa has had enough time and monetary aid to recover from that, particularly since they are so oil and mineral rich. And Britain did not invade all Middle Eastern countries (who, by the way, did some invading themselves too).
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Lopau6
Looks like someone has BlameTheWhites derangement syndrome. Africa has had enough time and monetary aid to recover from that. And Britain did not invade all Middle Eastern countries (who, by the way, did some invading themselves too).

Lol I think you’re grossly underestimating how badly places like Africa, Middle East and India were destroyed. Looks like someone has a case of classic fascism.
Original post by Lopau6
Looks like someone has BlameTheWhites derangement syndrome. Africa has had enough time and monetary aid to recover from that, particularly since they are so oil and mineral rich.


The vast majority of African governments and natural resources are exploited by Western and East Asian corporations/governments.

And Britain did not invade all Middle Eastern countries (who, by the way, did some invading themselves too).


That is factually incorrect: Britain has intervened militarily in every single North African and Middle Eastern country.
(edited 5 years ago)
Reply 10
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Lopau6
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Original post by akbar0123
Lol I think you’re grossly underestimating how badly places like Africa, Middle East and India were destroyed. Looks like someone has a case of classic fascism.


The whole reason we were able to invade Africa in the first place is because we were always more technologically advanced. That is why Europe is successful and Africa is a failure. Smarter people who are capable of forming properly functioning societies.
Maybe you shouldn’t have ****ing colonised them
Reply 12
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Lopau6
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Original post by Rainfall
Maybe you shouldn’t have ****ing colonised them


Keep crying that excuse. Saudi Arabia was never colonized, and is the most oil rich country in the world. Still a corrupt dynsfunctional society with most people there in poverty.
Original post by Lopau6
Keep crying that excuse. Saudia Arabia was never colonized, and is the most oil rich country in the world. Still a corrupt hellhole for most people living there.


my country was once so beautiful (Somalia) and then it got colonised and that ruined everything
Original post by Rainfall
Maybe you shouldn’t have ****ing colonised them

He didn’t.
Original post by akbar0123
Can’t really blame them when Britain screwed up about a third of the world


It’s funny that whilst being told the British Empire is at fault for the civil wars by drawing national boarders to encompass different ethnic groups we’re told that multiculturalism and immigration is the best thing since sliced bread. Can different ethnic groups coexist or not?
Original post by Underscore__
It’s funny that whilst being told the British Empire is at fault for the civil wars by drawing national boarders to encompass different ethnic groups we’re told that multiculturalism and immigration is the best thing since sliced bread. Can different ethnic groups coexist or not?


Are you equating colonialism in the same universe as multiculturalism or immigration?
Original post by Rainfall
Maybe you shouldn’t have ****ing colonised them


We get that but how do we fix it? x
Original post by akbar0123
Giving foreign aid to the countries you once invaded and pillaged is like putting a little finger bandage on a shotgun wound. It’s nothing compared to the damage that Britain and other countries did.


Too many immigrants come to Britain with this mindset and have a grudge against the country due to the past - another reason why we need to be careful who we let into the country as "immigrants".


You wouldn't allow somebody who hates you to enter your house?
So why do we take care of those with intense grudges and allow them to settle here and cause havoc?
Original post by HighOnGoofballs
Are you equating colonialism in the same universe as multiculturalism or immigration?


I suggest you reread what I said, you haven’t made anything that even remotely reassembles a reasonable inference.

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