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False rape claims are not as big of a problem as the media makes out
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Original post by Christian Bro
You guys are really evil and disgusting if you think it's okay to falsely accuse someone of rape and ruin their lives for any reason. People actually kill themselves because of this unrighteous judgement. It ruins your name, public, image, years of hard work, and opportunities in life, all for something you didn't even do. As for the 1 in three women have been harassed thing, yeah so do men. I was sexually harassed by some big black girls who I was not interested in while I was in middle school. One would always smack my butt when we passed by near the stairwell going down the first floor. She then came in after the bell rang in at class because I was leaving that class and that was her next class. She pretended to want a hug so I hugged her and she then grabbed my private parts. It was awful. She then started harassing we about it throughout some parts of the year and told her friends. I was shook but since it was not actual rape, I'm okay.
I don't think for one minute that it's okay to falsely accuse someone of rape. I am not defending the small number of people who do that but I am saying that it is hard to prove that someone is lying. Imagine if a woman who was telling the truth was convicted with false accusation?
I'm really sorry about whay happened to you but I don't think the race of the girls is relevant. However I understand that that would have been a bad experience. When I say that harassment towards men is not as big an issue I am not saying thay harassment towards men is not as bad, I'm saying that it happens way more frequently towards women.
Original post by VMD100
I'd argue just as a single rape is one too many, a single false rape allegation is also - and really should hold the same punishment
I think both are bad but I don't think the two are comparable. I think they're just as bad but in different ways. However all I'm saying is that it's very difficult to prove that someone is lying. It would be wrong to convict a woman who was actually telling the truth. I think they are a problem but not as big a problem as the media makes out and I think they are very rare.
Original post by Chief Wiggum
Low number of convictions for rape: Feminists say, "This low conviction rate proves how rape isn't taken seriously, and is evidence of the misogynistic, patriarchal society that we live in."
Low number of convictions for false accusations of rape: Feminists say, "This proves that false accusations of rape are rare."
Typical double standards and logical inconsistency.
Low number of convictions for false accusations of rape: Feminists say, "This proves that false accusations of rape are rare."
Typical double standards and logical inconsistency.
Okay so first of all you are assuming that I agree with the first statement which is not true. I think the low conviction rate is due to the fact that rape is often done behind closed doors and is difficult to provide evidence for. Also you're confusing low conviction rates with accusation rates. There is not a low rate of accusations against men for rape but the number that are convicted is relatively low due to the reasons I described.
However there is a difference with false accusations. I don't think that currently there is a law that says you can go to prison for false accusations of rape. Even if there were, I think that the rate of conviction would be low because it is difficult to prove that someone is lying. A lack of evidence doesn't necessarily mean that the woman is lying. I think the incentives for falsely accusing someone of rape are relatively low so I don't think many woman do that. If you think of how evil it would be to do that, I think the number of women who would actually do that out of spite is low.
Most people don't even know what the offence of rape consists of ('rape is when a woman does not consent'), which makes it difficult to predict the number of people who have been raped and not come forward. The bit people forget is the guilty mind of the person they're accusing -- what that person reasonably believed.
If you're going off anonymous surveys, people are not best placed in some cases to determine that they were raped for two reasons a) they're emotionally interested parties and b) there is a good chance that they don't know what the offence of rape actually involves. Of course, in some cases, it is clear cut that someone has raped you -- particularly in violent rapes -- and reporting such is more than satisfactory.
If you're going off anonymous surveys, people are not best placed in some cases to determine that they were raped for two reasons a) they're emotionally interested parties and b) there is a good chance that they don't know what the offence of rape actually involves. Of course, in some cases, it is clear cut that someone has raped you -- particularly in violent rapes -- and reporting such is more than satisfactory.
Original post by tanyasmiths
Most people who are traumatised by it are older women and aren't they suppose to be able to control their emotions at that age and start acting like grown ups? like seriously it's just someone touching your body and rape only hurts a little bit so they actually do choose to feel the way they do because they want attention when they tell others and then other people want attention aswell and they just copy each other with that.
Okay I don't even know how to describe how wrong you are.
No you can't control your emotions. Literally no one can do that. As an adult you are expected to act in a civilised way despite your emotions (hence adults don't have tantrums when they are angry like toddlers do) but that doesnt mean that they don't feel those emotions. Trauma is a serious thing and it affects how your brain functions. You can't just get over it using logic because logic does not apply to emotions. Using your argument you could say "getting stabbed is just someone inserting a knife into you" but that would be an over simplification just as your description of rape is.
Original post by Nihilisticb*tch
Okay I don't even know how to describe how wrong you are.
No you can't control your emotions. Literally no one can do that. As an adult you are expected to act in a civilised way despite your emotions (hence adults don't have tantrums when they are angry like toddlers do) but that doesnt mean that they don't feel those emotions. Trauma is a serious thing and it affects how your brain functions. You can't just get over it using logic because logic does not apply to emotions. Using your argument you could say "getting stabbed is just someone inserting a knife into you" but that would be an over simplification just as your description of rape is.
No you can't control your emotions. Literally no one can do that. As an adult you are expected to act in a civilised way despite your emotions (hence adults don't have tantrums when they are angry like toddlers do) but that doesnt mean that they don't feel those emotions. Trauma is a serious thing and it affects how your brain functions. You can't just get over it using logic because logic does not apply to emotions. Using your argument you could say "getting stabbed is just someone inserting a knife into you" but that would be an over simplification just as your description of rape is.
All my life which had been very short to other people but I feel older have been through I have been through a traumatising time because time after time stuff have happened to me and at the time I was depressed by it but now I have gotten over it because it is possible and stop comparing what I'm saying to a stab
Original post by Nihilisticb*tch
I don't think for one minute that it's okay to falsely accuse someone of rape. I am not defending the small number of people who do that but I am saying that it is hard to prove that someone is lying. Imagine if a woman who was telling the truth was convicted with false accusation?
I'm really sorry about whay happened to you but I don't think the race of the girls is relevant. However I understand that that would have been a bad experience. When I say that harassment towards men is not as big an issue I am not saying thay harassment towards men is not as bad, I'm saying that it happens way more frequently towards women.
I'm really sorry about whay happened to you but I don't think the race of the girls is relevant. However I understand that that would have been a bad experience. When I say that harassment towards men is not as big an issue I am not saying thay harassment towards men is not as bad, I'm saying that it happens way more frequently towards women.
Their race was not relevant and neither was their size and obesity ಠ_ಠ. It was just a way to give a clearer picture like the stairs or where it happened or when it happened, none of that is really relevant either. As for the stories, they are easily proven false because had they not been, we would not know, but the thing is though is that even though they have been proven innocent, people and society still thinks the're guilty and that unrighteous stigma placed on them literally ruins their lives. It's not just rape either, men are being attacked for being men. If a man protects a women from an attacker he is punished. If he helps a lost child he is a pedophile. If fights of men trying to break into his home he is punished for having violating certain gun laws. The other reason that this is outrageous is that if a man is even falsely accused of rape their life is never the same. If a woman is convicted of falsely accusing someone, she gets 1 year in some minimum security female prison and no one remembers what she did and she can continue living her life like nothing happened.
I'm female and have been going to criminal court trials from the time I was a toddler.
The way that almost all rape complainants are generally treated in the courtroom is awful, CPS representatives & trial judges bear much of the blame for not intervening to challenge or end blatantly abusive behaviour by defence counsel.
But false rape claims are a huge problem, as are lies about sexual assaults- many of which never reach the courts because the dishonesty is so obvious.
When my mother was giving free legal advice as a law student or volunteering at citizens advice centres, so many women used to come asking for advice on what would happen to "my friend who pretended to police she was raped when she wasn't".
Often they really were concerned friends who had been asked to back up the claims of rape liars.
Sometimes they were attention seeking fools that had lied about being raped, were enjoying all the attention and sympathy but didn't want to go to jail themselves or get innocent men arrested. Rather than admit to lying, making up false descriptions then saying no to every suspect they were shown.
A few of them were vicious ex girlfriends that seemed to view false rape allegations as the perfect revenge upon the lovers who had dumped or two timed them.
Some chasing compensation solely for financial reasons who didn't care if an innocent man was branded a rapist and sent to jail in the process.
The occasional one using a false rape claim to cover up one night stand or affair that "looked bad".
A few years my former housemate lied about being sexually assaulted.
Rape was not alleged but she falsely reported a restaurant owner in his 70s for grabbing her and pulling at her skirt.
She told me she had been walking down the street with a hangover wearing my high heels, tripped and fell over.
She picked herself up, discovered that she had sprained her ankle and cut her knee, then saw two men from a nearby restaurant were laughing at her.
She punished the older man by going to the nearest police station and making a statement that she had cut her knee trying to escape being groped and having him try pulling down her skirt.
I have no idea what was going through her head, she even told the police that I was with her when she knew I was in Belfast.
The elderly restaurant owner was arrested in front of his family and customers, charged with two counts of sexual assault and his daughter banned him from seeing his granddaughters
There was some street CCTV and the employee backing him up but the charges weren't dismissed until two days before the trial was scheduled to begin.
The restaurant owner didn't get legal aid; his earnings were above the legal aid limit and he owned the building his business was based in.
Legal fees cost him over £4000. All that over one spiteful lie.
The way that almost all rape complainants are generally treated in the courtroom is awful, CPS representatives & trial judges bear much of the blame for not intervening to challenge or end blatantly abusive behaviour by defence counsel.
But false rape claims are a huge problem, as are lies about sexual assaults- many of which never reach the courts because the dishonesty is so obvious.
When my mother was giving free legal advice as a law student or volunteering at citizens advice centres, so many women used to come asking for advice on what would happen to "my friend who pretended to police she was raped when she wasn't".
Often they really were concerned friends who had been asked to back up the claims of rape liars.
Sometimes they were attention seeking fools that had lied about being raped, were enjoying all the attention and sympathy but didn't want to go to jail themselves or get innocent men arrested. Rather than admit to lying, making up false descriptions then saying no to every suspect they were shown.
A few of them were vicious ex girlfriends that seemed to view false rape allegations as the perfect revenge upon the lovers who had dumped or two timed them.
Some chasing compensation solely for financial reasons who didn't care if an innocent man was branded a rapist and sent to jail in the process.
The occasional one using a false rape claim to cover up one night stand or affair that "looked bad".
A few years my former housemate lied about being sexually assaulted.
Rape was not alleged but she falsely reported a restaurant owner in his 70s for grabbing her and pulling at her skirt.
She told me she had been walking down the street with a hangover wearing my high heels, tripped and fell over.
She picked herself up, discovered that she had sprained her ankle and cut her knee, then saw two men from a nearby restaurant were laughing at her.
She punished the older man by going to the nearest police station and making a statement that she had cut her knee trying to escape being groped and having him try pulling down her skirt.
I have no idea what was going through her head, she even told the police that I was with her when she knew I was in Belfast.
The elderly restaurant owner was arrested in front of his family and customers, charged with two counts of sexual assault and his daughter banned him from seeing his granddaughters
There was some street CCTV and the employee backing him up but the charges weren't dismissed until two days before the trial was scheduled to begin.
The restaurant owner didn't get legal aid; his earnings were above the legal aid limit and he owned the building his business was based in.
Legal fees cost him over £4000. All that over one spiteful lie.
Original post by jennyh14
I don’t give a shot about a lack of evidence, of the victim can describe what has happens to them and pick out a person who they believe has done it, then that is evidence enough!
What the ACTUAL ****.
"Officer, jennyh14 and I were at a party and they raped me" = jennyh14 in jail. What the ACTUAL ****.
The highlighting of false rape claims is for two purposes.
Firstly, it is the greater injustice that the justice system can convict and punish an innocent. It's not succeeded, it's not even failed, but actively gone against what it was meant to do if it convicts an innocent.
Secondly, while it is correct to point out that there are rapists walking free, perhaps not even being taken to court, it is wrong to conclude (as a lot of people do) that it should then be made easier to convict someone. Pointing out the injustices that already arise is to argue that we shouldn't move things in a way that results in more injustices being enacted by our justice system.
Firstly, it is the greater injustice that the justice system can convict and punish an innocent. It's not succeeded, it's not even failed, but actively gone against what it was meant to do if it convicts an innocent.
Secondly, while it is correct to point out that there are rapists walking free, perhaps not even being taken to court, it is wrong to conclude (as a lot of people do) that it should then be made easier to convict someone. Pointing out the injustices that already arise is to argue that we shouldn't move things in a way that results in more injustices being enacted by our justice system.
Original post by Christian Bro
Their race was not relevant and neither was their size and obesity ಠ_ಠ. It was just a way to give a clearer picture like the stairs or where it happened or when it happened, none of that is really relevant either. As for the stories, they are easily proven false because had they not been, we would not know, but the thing is though is that even though they have been proven innocent, people and society still thinks the're guilty and that unrighteous stigma placed on them literally ruins their lives. It's not just rape either, men are being attacked for being men. If a man protects a women from an attacker he is punished. If he helps a lost child he is a pedophile. If fights of men trying to break into his home he is punished for having violating certain gun laws. The other reason that this is outrageous is that if a man is even falsely accused of rape their life is never the same. If a woman is convicted of falsely accusing someone, she gets 1 year in some minimum security female prison and no one remembers what she did and she can continue living her life like nothing happened.
I totally agree. You seem to be trying to explain to me why false rape claims are bad. I am not saying that they aren't bad. Of course they are terrible and in cases where there is evidence that the woman has lied then she should be punished severely. However I don't think that it happens anywhere near as often as actual sexual assault happens to women and focussing on false rape claims detracts from the much more prevalent issue of sexual assault and also harms victims and makes them more afraid to come forward. I think the issue here is an issue with legislation. I think that the press should not be able to report on a criminal accusation until the accused has been convicted and people shouldn't be able to publicly accuse someone of a crime before they've been through the police. If laws were implemented that prevented this then the main issues with false rape accusations would be eliminated.
Original post by tanyasmiths
All my life which had been very short to other people but I feel older have been through I have been through a traumatising time because time after time stuff have happened to me and at the time I was depressed by it but now I have gotten over it because it is possible and stop comparing what I'm saying to a stab
My point is that just because you've gotten over it doesn't mean everyone else can. The fact you were depressed about it shows that it is traumatic and damaging. I don't really know what point you're trying to make here, you obviously suffered as a result of what happened to you so I don't know why you're acting like others shouldn't suffer.
Original post by scottishst25
Agreed. The media grossly exaggerates the proportion of false rape cases and is part of the reason women are scared to report as they feel they’ll be labelled a liar. Also part of the reason some ignorant men are claiming it’s ‘a hard time to be a man’ and rubbish like that.
Isn't the reason women are scared they'll be labelled a liar that man hating sensationalists keep saying women are never believed by the police? You're basically telling women to give up reporting things if you tell them they won't be believed. And no, it's not done on the balance of probability, the jury has to believe your word beyond reasonable doubt, after a professional lawyer has shot holes in it, and that is the way we do justice in this country.
I've read several stories still condemning Kavanagh, even after nothing was proven. The media seems to be supporting trial by media and innuendo, so I'm not sure where you're coming from.
There is no way you could possibly know how common it is. Your whole post is based on your own beliefs or what you want to believe.
There is no way you could possibly know how common it is. Your whole post is based on your own beliefs or what you want to believe.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by scottishst25
Agreed. The media grossly exaggerates the proportion of false rape cases and is part of the reason women are scared to report as they feel they’ll be labelled a liar. Also part of the reason some ignorant men are claiming it’s ‘a hard time to be a man’ and rubbish like that.
i don't know if the media grossly exaggerates, but it seems as soon as we see one person convicted of false accusation, suddenly we think it's happening everywhere and use it as a weapon to hate those who come forward. imo a more likely reason victims don't come forward is because we have friends and family members who've been sexually assaulted and were not believed, so we think 'what's the point, don't wanna be like them'. we know it takes a lot of evidence to convict, so if we don't have it and know justice won't be done, then of course we remain silent. no one wants to be labelled that revengeful b*tch who tried to ruin an innocent man's life.
indeed the extremely frustrating bit is that rape victims can't win. report with lack of evidence, then you've made a 'false accusation'. don't report because of lack of evidence, then you've 'allowed' a rapist to go free.
Original post by jennyh14
This is not the reality though. When women are brave enough to come forward and accuse someone of rape, they are not lying! If the world was perfect, there would be more protection from the public for people accused of rape with conviction, but the REALITY is that rape/assault is a serious issue which people never gave a proper shot about until now, hence why so many women are starting to report their experiences which happened in the previous century
False rape claims are a big problem ...and they seem to be becomming more popular.
Personally I know 2 people who have been falsely accused of rape. One girl eventually admitted it before a decision was made by the CPS whether or not to prosecute.
however the other guy wasn't so lucky, 2 girls alleged they were drugged and raped by the indivudual on new years eve and the case went to court. The police tested the girls for drugs in their system on the morning after the alleged attack and found nothing in their system at all. The Prosecution then switched tactics and tried to allege the women were drunk and the guy took advantage but independant witnesses said the women did not appear drunk. Somebody in another room also heard what he thought was people having sex coming from the alledged victims room.
The guy spent a long time jailed in remand waiting for the trial.
the guy was aquitted but he lost his job and his repuation is in tatters.
Stop assuming every sexual assult allegation is a legit one. There are many women out there who will allege all sorts of things against you if you upset them enough......
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by cyclone777
False rape claims are a big problem ...and they seem to be becomming more popular.
Personally I know 2 people who have been falsely accused of rape. One girl eventually admitted it before a decision was made by the CPS whether or not to prosecute.
however the other guy wasn't so lucky, 2 girls alleged they were drugged and raped by the indivudual on new years eve and the case went to court. The police tested the girls for drugs in their system on the morning after the alleged attack and found nothing in their system at all. The Prosecution then switched tactics and tried to allege the women were drunk and the guy took advantage but independant witnesses said the women did not appear drunk. Somebody in another room also heard what he thought was people having sex coming from the alledged victims room.
The guy spent a long time jailed in remand waiting for the trial.
the guy was aquitted but he lost his job and his repuation is in tatters.
Stop assuming every sexual assult allegation is a legit one. There are many women out there who will allege all sorts of things against you if you upset them enough......
Personally I know 2 people who have been falsely accused of rape. One girl eventually admitted it before a decision was made by the CPS whether or not to prosecute.
however the other guy wasn't so lucky, 2 girls alleged they were drugged and raped by the indivudual on new years eve and the case went to court. The police tested the girls for drugs in their system on the morning after the alleged attack and found nothing in their system at all. The Prosecution then switched tactics and tried to allege the women were drunk and the guy took advantage but independant witnesses said the women did not appear drunk. Somebody in another room also heard what he thought was people having sex coming from the alledged victims room.
The guy spent a long time jailed in remand waiting for the trial.
the guy was aquitted but he lost his job and his repuation is in tatters.
Stop assuming every sexual assult allegation is a legit one. There are many women out there who will allege all sorts of things against you if you upset them enough......
Yikes... so the women were deemed not drunk because 'witnesses' thought so & someone heard what they thought sounded like sex so therefore it couldn't have been rape!
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