Should we heavily reduce immigration to the UK?
I'm interested to see what the 'younger' generation thinks about immigration to the UK.
My 2 cents? It should be reduced by a lot, to tens of thousands, mainly due to overpopulation, but also to halt the erosion of English culture.
No doubt people will call me out on the last part: I am certainly not meaning to be racist and saying that all migrants are anti-English; my mother is an immigrant and I am as English as they come! But there is always a minority, albeit a small one, that does not integrate. Since migrants often migrate to areas where there are already migrants of similar ethnicity/culture, you see more and more recently that there are places where the overwhelming majority of people are migrants or the children of migrants, for example in Luton, areas of London, and Slough. How can these places retain their English culture when the vast majority of people have only moved there a generation or two ago? They can't, at least not completely.
I am all for globalism, but that does not mean I want the erosion of cultures into one homogeneous sludge. I am open to diversity; I enjoy walking through the different ethnic areas of my local city, but these areas are small, and the city is predominantly English. And that would be my summary: diversity, but only in a minority. I am proud of England and the English culture, and hope it continues for a long time. I do not want to see it disappear.
Those are my thoughts. What are yours?
My 2 cents? It should be reduced by a lot, to tens of thousands, mainly due to overpopulation, but also to halt the erosion of English culture.
No doubt people will call me out on the last part: I am certainly not meaning to be racist and saying that all migrants are anti-English; my mother is an immigrant and I am as English as they come! But there is always a minority, albeit a small one, that does not integrate. Since migrants often migrate to areas where there are already migrants of similar ethnicity/culture, you see more and more recently that there are places where the overwhelming majority of people are migrants or the children of migrants, for example in Luton, areas of London, and Slough. How can these places retain their English culture when the vast majority of people have only moved there a generation or two ago? They can't, at least not completely.
I am all for globalism, but that does not mean I want the erosion of cultures into one homogeneous sludge. I am open to diversity; I enjoy walking through the different ethnic areas of my local city, but these areas are small, and the city is predominantly English. And that would be my summary: diversity, but only in a minority. I am proud of England and the English culture, and hope it continues for a long time. I do not want to see it disappear.
Those are my thoughts. What are yours?
(edited 5 years ago)
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I do think we should reduce immigration. Mainly because of the overpopulation.
At the moment, there is a big strain on the NHS (doctors, hospitals etc), schools, housing etc, and it will probably get worse.
I do see what the OP means about the culture thing as well.
At the moment, there is a big strain on the NHS (doctors, hospitals etc), schools, housing etc, and it will probably get worse.
I do see what the OP means about the culture thing as well.
No.
I voted for Brexit so we can take back control of our borders and allow free immigration to people wherever they come from.
I chuckled that you're an ok immigrant, it's just the others that are the problem. lol
Also, English isn't a culture. Liverpool, Luton, London and Lowestoft have their own identities.
I voted for Brexit so we can take back control of our borders and allow free immigration to people wherever they come from.
I chuckled that you're an ok immigrant, it's just the others that are the problem. lol
Also, English isn't a culture. Liverpool, Luton, London and Lowestoft have their own identities.
Original post by Quady
No.
I voted for Brexit so we can take back control of our borders and allow free immigration to people wherever they come from.
I chuckled that you're an ok immigrant, it's just the others that are the problem. lol
Also, English isn't a culture. Liverpool, Luton, London and Lowestoft have their own identities.
I voted for Brexit so we can take back control of our borders and allow free immigration to people wherever they come from.
I chuckled that you're an ok immigrant, it's just the others that are the problem. lol
Also, English isn't a culture. Liverpool, Luton, London and Lowestoft have their own identities.
You sound like a remain troll because everyone knows that's not what Brexit was/is going to do.
Brexit was, if anything, anti-globalism because a large idea of it is reducing the freedom of movement.
There is a point to be made about some immigrants being I dunno, more socially compatible with the UK culture, but without any proper studies being made I can't comment any further without moving into potentially racist territory.
There is a thing called national identity. Throughout England, or the UK, we do like our tea.
Original post by Quady
No.
I voted for Brexit so we can take back control of our borders and allow free immigration to people wherever they come from.
I chuckled that you're an ok immigrant, it's just the others that are the problem. lol
Also, English isn't a culture. Liverpool, Luton, London and Lowestoft have their own identities.
I voted for Brexit so we can take back control of our borders and allow free immigration to people wherever they come from.
I chuckled that you're an ok immigrant, it's just the others that are the problem. lol
Also, English isn't a culture. Liverpool, Luton, London and Lowestoft have their own identities.
I knew someone would comment both these points.
1. I said that the problem is mass immigration concentrated in small areas. Not all migrants. I'm an 'ok' migrant (even though I am not an immigrant, I was born here) because I speak English, with an English accent, have English mannerisms and participate in English traditions. I have 'integrated' (though that's an ugly word) into the English culture.
2. People from these towns would call themselves English though no? There are regional varieties in every country, unique traditions to every county that have been going on for generations, but these are part of the overall English culture. I bet if you asked a Texan which country they identify with they'd say America, even though Texas has a very strong identity. And as the person above said, there are things common throughout England: (most of us) are polite, like our tea, like our cheese and crackers, and are masters of the understatement. English culture is more than that but you get the idea!
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by pereira325
You sound like a remain troll because everyone knows that's not what Brexit was/is going to do.
Brexit was, if anything, anti-globalism because a large idea of it is reducing the freedom of movement.
There is a point to be made about some immigrants being I dunno, more socially compatible with the UK culture, but without any proper studies being made I can't comment any further without moving into potentially racist territory.
There is a thing called national identity. Throughout England, or the UK, we do like our tea.
Brexit was, if anything, anti-globalism because a large idea of it is reducing the freedom of movement.
There is a point to be made about some immigrants being I dunno, more socially compatible with the UK culture, but without any proper studies being made I can't comment any further without moving into potentially racist territory.
There is a thing called national identity. Throughout England, or the UK, we do like our tea.
Brexit is about taking back control away from Brussels and putting it back into Westminster. Are you saying I should've voted remain?
That is true, just not as much as Turkey, Morocco or Ireland.
Original post by Quady
Brexit is about taking back control away from Brussels and putting it back into Westminster. Are you saying I should've voted remain?
That is true, just not as much as Turkey, Morocco or Ireland.
That is true, just not as much as Turkey, Morocco or Ireland.
The first part is true.
However, the mainstream and most likely immigration policies/plans post-brexit was a similar system to Australia i.e. a points-based system which would not discriminate on country of origin but skills.
That would not imply free migration by any means.
Original post by frantika
I knew someone would comment both these points.
1. I said that the problem is mass immigration concentrated in small areas. Not all migrants. I'm an 'ok' migrant (even though I am not an immigrant, I was born here) because I speak English, with an English accent, have English mannerisms and participate in English traditions. I have 'integrated' (though that's an ugly word) into the English culture.
2. People from these towns would call themselves English though no? There are regional varieties in every country, unique traditions to every county that have been going on for generations, but these are part of the overall English culture. I bet if you asked a Texan which country they identify with they'd say America, even though Texas has a very strong identity. And as the person above said, there are things common throughout England: (most of us) are polite, like our tea, like our cheese and crackers, and are masters of the understatement. English culture is more than that but you get the idea!
1. I said that the problem is mass immigration concentrated in small areas. Not all migrants. I'm an 'ok' migrant (even though I am not an immigrant, I was born here) because I speak English, with an English accent, have English mannerisms and participate in English traditions. I have 'integrated' (though that's an ugly word) into the English culture.
2. People from these towns would call themselves English though no? There are regional varieties in every country, unique traditions to every county that have been going on for generations, but these are part of the overall English culture. I bet if you asked a Texan which country they identify with they'd say America, even though Texas has a very strong identity. And as the person above said, there are things common throughout England: (most of us) are polite, like our tea, like our cheese and crackers, and are masters of the understatement. English culture is more than that but you get the idea!
Given you've moved to the UK yet only bang on about England and being English have you really integrated?
People from Liverpool hate those from Leeds as they are from 'the wrong side of the Pennines' right? Liverpudlians have more affinity with the folk in Llandudno, who are you know, mostly not English.
Original post by pereira325
The first part is true.
However, the mainstream and most likely immigration policies/plans post-brexit was a similar system to Australia i.e. a points-based system which would not discriminate on country of origin but skills.
That would not imply free migration by any means.
However, the mainstream and most likely immigration policies/plans post-brexit was a similar system to Australia i.e. a points-based system which would not discriminate on country of origin but skills.
That would not imply free migration by any means.
That's the next fight.
Well that and getting control of our country back and getting out of the UK.
Original post by Quady
Given you've moved to the UK yet only bang on about England and being English have you really integrated?
People from Liverpool hate those from Leeds as they are from 'the wrong side of the Pennines' right? Liverpudlians have more affinity with the folk in Llandudno, who are you know, mostly not English.
People from Liverpool hate those from Leeds as they are from 'the wrong side of the Pennines' right? Liverpudlians have more affinity with the folk in Llandudno, who are you know, mostly not English.
I just said, for the second time now, I am not an immigrant! I was born here and raised here, surrounded by other English people. I could prattle on about how English I am but since we'll never meet in real life there's no way I can prove it, so I'll leave it.
And ok, fine, I concede that there are a few areas in England which are very independent, such as Cornwall and Yorkshire and Liverpool. But for the rest of England, that isn't really true. Having a regional identity doesn't mean you can't have a national identity, unless the identity is very very strong (as it is in the previously mentioned places). Anyway, it doesn't really relate to the question, in fact it strengthens the argument that there are cultures within England that should not be eroded.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by frantika
I just said, for the second time now, I am not an immigrant! I was born here and raised here, surrounded by other English people. I could prattle on about how English I am but since we'll never meet in real life there's no way I can prove it, so I'll leave it.
And ok, fine, I concede that there are a few areas in England which are very independent, such as Cornwall or Yorkshire and maybe Liverpool. But for the rest of England, that isn't really true. Having a regional identity doesn't mean you can't have a national identity, unless the identity is very very strong (as it is in the previously mentioned places). Anyway, it doesn't really relate to the question, in fact it strengthens the argument that there are cultures within England that should not be eroded.
And ok, fine, I concede that there are a few areas in England which are very independent, such as Cornwall or Yorkshire and maybe Liverpool. But for the rest of England, that isn't really true. Having a regional identity doesn't mean you can't have a national identity, unless the identity is very very strong (as it is in the previously mentioned places). Anyway, it doesn't really relate to the question, in fact it strengthens the argument that there are cultures within England that should not be eroded.
So let's cut to the chase - are you English or British?
Are you advocating reducing migration into England?
Original post by Quady
So let's cut to the chase - are you English or British?
Are you advocating reducing migration into England?
Are you advocating reducing migration into England?
I think it's fairly obvious given what I said before, but I consider myself English and I would like to reduce migration in to England
Original post by Emma:-)
I do think we should reduce immigration. Mainly because of the overpopulation.
At the moment, there is a big strain on the NHS (doctors, hospitals etc), schools, housing etc, and it will probably get worse.
I do see what the OP means about the culture thing as well.
At the moment, there is a big strain on the NHS (doctors, hospitals etc), schools, housing etc, and it will probably get worse.
I do see what the OP means about the culture thing as well.
The "overpopulation" argument against immigration is a lie.
Were it not for immigration, Britain would have a decreasing population - just look at the population of White British, which decreased by 500,000 between 2001 and 2011 (and probably by even more since 2011).
Particularly among the working and younger ages - in 2016, 31.4% of primary school students were ethnic minority, compared to just 15% of the overall population in the last census. In other words, White British people are ageing rapidly and have such disastrously low birth rates that even with increasing hordes of retirees living longer, the white British population is decreasing rather rapidly.
of course. but as dramatic as try hard do-good virtue signalling lefties can be, they miraculously hear the words "stop ALL" immigration whenever you say the fact that it should be reduced. of course it should be REDUCED! How can anyone with even a little education and connection to reality say otherwise other than again, being a try hard virtue signaller? or being an immigrant themself and thinking subectively.
Original post by AngeryPenguin
The "overpopulation" argument against immigration is a lie.
Were it not for immigration, Britain would have a decreasing population - just look at the population of White British, which decreased by 500,000 between 2001 and 2011 (and probably by even more since 2011).
Particularly among the working and younger ages - in 2016, 31.4% of primary school students were ethnic minority, compared to just 15% of the overall population in the last census. In other words, White British people are ageing rapidly and have such disastrously low birth rates that even with increasing hordes of retirees living longer, the white British population is decreasing rather rapidly.
Were it not for immigration, Britain would have a decreasing population - just look at the population of White British, which decreased by 500,000 between 2001 and 2011 (and probably by even more since 2011).
Particularly among the working and younger ages - in 2016, 31.4% of primary school students were ethnic minority, compared to just 15% of the overall population in the last census. In other words, White British people are ageing rapidly and have such disastrously low birth rates that even with increasing hordes of retirees living longer, the white British population is decreasing rather rapidly.
I don't quite see how the overpopulation argument is a lie when you've just said that because of migration England's population is increasing? England's population will reach 70 million by 2027 and 51% of this rise will be from migrants (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34666382). The population of England can't keep increasing and increasing; it's already pretty unsustainable.
Furthermore, your second point supports my second point about the erosion of British culture. That is not to say that all non-white people are unEglish, but 1 in 5 primary school children speak English as a second language. I doubt these kids would call themselves English or be involved in English culture.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by frantika
I don't quite see how the overpopulation argument is a lie when you've just said that because of migration England's population is increasing? England's population will reach 70 million by 2027 and 51% of this rise will be from migrants (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34666382). The population of England can't keep increasing and increasing; it's already pretty unsustainable.
Do you favour a zero-growth economy?
Original post by Quady
No.
I voted for Brexit so we can take back control of our borders and allow free immigration to people wherever they come from.
I chuckled that you're an ok immigrant, it's just the others that are the problem. lol
Also, English isn't a culture. Liverpool, Luton, London and Lowestoft have their own identities.
I voted for Brexit so we can take back control of our borders and allow free immigration to people wherever they come from.
I chuckled that you're an ok immigrant, it's just the others that are the problem. lol
Also, English isn't a culture. Liverpool, Luton, London and Lowestoft have their own identities.
In what concievable reality could that possibly be a good thing for our country? Leaving aside the ethnic and cultural factors (which do matter, regardless of how much people may wish they didn't), do you not think 70 million people is enough for a small Island country like Britain? Or do you actually want to live in a nation where everybody is either crammed into high rise flats, or we are forced to turn all our countryside in a massive sprawling suburb of garish, soulless Barratt boxes?
Original post by Dez
Do you favour a zero-growth economy?
If that's what it takes to not completely destroy our already dwindling countryside and ecology, and not displace the native white British population and their culture, then yes, yes I do. Frankly the cancerous, neoliberal ideology of growth purely for the sake of growth needs to be wiped off the face of the Earth.
Original post by Dez
Do you favour a zero-growth economy?
So we should grow infinitely until the world implodes? I say focus on quality rather than quantity.
Original post by Wōden
If that's what it takes to not completely destroy our already dwindling countryside and ecology, and not displace the native white British population and their culture, then yes, yes I do. Frankly the cancerous, neoliberal ideology of growth purely for the sake of growth needs to be wiped off the face of the Earth.
Amen
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