Free Trade Means Getting Rid of Tariffs

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peacocks777
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"In fact, the only way prices can rise post Brexit is if parliament votes to impose tariffs. The EU will have no say in the matter, provided that the government does not sign away the UK's rights in a 'deal' in the meantime." Tim Martin, Wetherspoon Annual Report, 14th September 2018.
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999tigger
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(Original post by peacocks777)
"In fact, the only way prices can rise post Brexit is if parliament votes to impose tariffs. The EU will have no say in the matter, provided that the government does not sign away the UK's rights in a 'deal' in the meantime." Tim Martin, Wetherspoon Annual Report, 14th September 2018.
If the market decides the £ weakens then the price of imports will rise. That is nothing to do with tariffs. the EU does have a say in the matter in that it can control access to its own market if it wishes. Not quite getting the full context of what he is saying from that quote.
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username1799249
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You are quite right. We can set whatever tarrifs we like. But if we are to set zero tarrifs, those tarrifs are zero from anywhere in the world. Queue our markets being flooded with cheap crap from everywhere and anywhere at the detriment of our own producers. The EU will be fine.
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Quady
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(Original post by ByEeek)
You are quite right. We can set whatever tarrifs we like. But if we are to set zero tarrifs, those tarrifs are zero from anywhere in the world. Queue our markets being flooded with cheap crap from everywhere and anywhere at the detriment of our own producers. The EU will be fine.
Flooded with cheap stuff? Great :-)
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bob072
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(Original post by Quady)
Flooded with cheap stuff? Great :-)
And if consumers decide something is poor quality they can stick to what they already buy, no problem. Having the option of more tariff-free food, clothes, cars can not be a bad thing especially for the poorest.
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Notoriety
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(Original post by ByEeek)
You are quite right. We can set whatever tarrifs we like. But if we are to set zero tarrifs, those tarrifs are zero from anywhere in the world. Queue our markets being flooded with cheap crap from everywhere and anywhere at the detriment of our own producers. The EU will be fine.
You're talking about the most favoured nation rule under WTO law, which means we have to treat every other WTO member as favourably as we treat our most favoured nation. If we set 5p tariff on cars from Canada, we have to offer 5p tariff to everyone.

Pretty big hindrance to forming trade deals, which is why there is a massive exception: regional trade agreements. If we entered into an RTA with Canada, we could offer 5p tariff to Canada and no one else. The term RTA makes it seem quite narrow, only things like the EU and NAFTA. However RTAs are incredibly pervasive, and pretty much any trade deal is registered as an RTA to get out of the MFN rule.
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Davij038
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To the right wingers here: immigration controls are a form of tariffs.
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Vinny C
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And what happens when manufacturers relocate elsewhere as here becomes too expensive and too much hassle to import parts? I love the UK but will shed no tears as the cheering crowds of Sunderland lose their factory. What you voted for, guys!
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Rakas21
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Not sure what the OP's point is.

Yes, free trade means reduced barriers to entry into the UK (and foreign) markets. That is a good thing generally, the disinflationary benefits of lower prices almost always deliver a net gain to the economy and jobs in the service (sales and logistics) sector.

It's bad for those who have a manufacturing fetish because we are shifting jobs from production to services and it may be locally bad for particular factories which cannot compete but generally most people will benefit.
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mojojojo101
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There never has been and never will be a truly free market under capitalism.

Prove. Me. Wrong.
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username1799249
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(Original post by Notoriety)
Pretty big hindrance to forming trade deals, which is why there is a massive exception: regional trade agreements. If we entered into an RTA with Canada, we could offer 5p tariff to Canada and no one else. The term RTA makes it seem quite narrow, only things like the EU and NAFTA. However RTAs are incredibly pervasive, and pretty much any trade deal is registered as an RTA to get out of the MFN rule.
Yep - I get that. But negotiating RTA is anything but straight forward... as we are finding out whilst trying simply agree on a transition period with the EU. If your future trade partner feels we are getting one over on them, it is back to the drawing board. There is no such thing as a free lunch when it comes to trade agreements. Meanwhile, the UK is left managing as best it can on WTO rules.
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HighOnGoofballs
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(Original post by Davij038)
To the right wingers here: immigration controls are a form of tariffs.
The first time I'm hearing this. I'm curious, what do you mean? Are you implying we should have open borders?
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Davij038
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(Original post by HighOnGoofballs)
The first time I'm hearing this. I'm curious, what do you mean? Are you implying we should have open borders?
No the opppsite.

It’s dumb that conservatives are so pro market but think that immigration doesn’t count, the reverse is too of the ‘left’.

Broadly speaking I think that the conservative right should be more economically left wing and that the left should be more neoliberal. This is already happened/ is happening.

Now there are good arguments for not accepting immigration but having very pro capitalist policies (eg goods are far less problematic than people) but I think it’s worth pointing out that neoliberals such as the Adam Smith Institute advocate for open borders
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Quady
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(Original post by HighOnGoofballs)
The first time I'm hearing this. I'm curious, what do you mean? Are you implying we should have open borders?
Dunno about that poster but I say we should.

Once we are free from Brussels control our soveriegn parliament can make it happen in days.
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HighOnGoofballs
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(Original post by Quady)
Dunno about that poster but I say we should.

Once we are free from Brussels control our soveriegn parliament can make it happen in days.
The people that voted for Brexit wanted a 'sovereign parliament' to implement stricter border controls, not open borders.
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username1799249
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(Original post by HighOnGoofballs)
The people that voted for Brexit wanted a 'sovereign parliament' to implement stricter border controls, not open borders.
How do you know when the question was about leaving the EU?

It is a bit like declaring that people voted for Cameron because they liked his hairstyle.
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Quady
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(Original post by HighOnGoofballs)
The people that voted for Brexit wanted a 'sovereign parliament' to implement stricter border controls, not open borders.
Possibly - although we've not had a vote on that.
Even if they did, it doesn't mean the people post brexit would still want that.
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HighOnGoofballs
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(Original post by ByEeek)
How do you know when the question was about leaving the EU?

It is a bit like declaring that people voted for Cameron because they liked his hairstyle.
Because leading up to the vote a large portion of the debate was centered around immigration. The majority voice within the Brexit side was that we want to leave the EU because we want to control our borders because immigration needs to be reduced.

_________

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...te-study-finds

This Guardian source talks about how immigration was a big issue leading up to the vote.

__________

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.u...el-of-concern/

Here is a unbiased source that essentially backs up everything I said. For example:

"Brexit is commonly thought of these days as major divide in British Society. Leave voters and remain voters have different visions for the future of the United Kingdom, and immigration plays a key role in those visions. Remain voters are, on average, more socially liberal and pro-immigration while leave voters are more socially conservative and anti-immigration. It is now also well established that older people tend to be less favourable towards immigration and more likely to have voted for Britain to leave the EU, while those with more education are more pro-immigration and more likely to have voted remain (see e.g. Kunovich, 2004; Hobolt, 2016)."

"In the year or so before the EU referendum, between June 2015 and June 2016, immigration was consistently named as the most salient issue facing the country, peaking at 56% in September 2015."

Do read the source, I haven't quoted all of it.

______

And on a less academic level, I think most people would agree with my comment if they tuned into any news network in the past year. It's very common knowledge that the majority of people who wanted to leave voted to leave because they wanted stricter immigration and NOT open borders.
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Quady
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(Original post by HighOnGoofballs)
Because leading up to the vote a large portion of the debate was centered around immigration. The majority voice within the Brexit side was that we want to leave the EU because we want to control our borders because immigration needs to be reduced.

_________

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...te-study-finds

This Guardian source talks about how immigration was a big issue leading up to the vote.

__________

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.u...el-of-concern/

Here is a unbiased source that essentially backs up everything I said. For example:

"Brexit is commonly thought of these days as major divide in British Society. Leave voters and remain voters have different visions for the future of the United Kingdom, and immigration plays a key role in those visions. Remain voters are, on average, more socially liberal and pro-immigration while leave voters are more socially conservative and anti-immigration. It is now also well established that older people tend to be less favourable towards immigration and more likely to have voted for Britain to leave the EU, while those with more education are more pro-immigration and more likely to have voted remain (see e.g. Kunovich, 2004; Hobolt, 2016)."

"In the year or so before the EU referendum, between June 2015 and June 2016, immigration was consistently named as the most salient issue facing the country, peaking at 56% in September 2015."

Do read the source, I haven't quoted all of it.

______

And on a less academic level, I think most people would agree with my comment if they tuned into any news network in the past year. It's very common knowledge that the majority of people who wanted to leave voted to leave because they wanted stricter immigration and NOT open borders.
Even if you were right on that, it doesn't mean that'll be the case after we get our freedom.
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