Why do most christians not observe Yom Kippur?
This is a question which has piqued my interest for the last few days. tl;dr yom kippur is observed on the 10th day of the jewish calendar to atone for sins and involves a sunset to sunset fast.
In islam, there is an analogue called yaum ashura which is observed around the same time as yom kippur (on the 10th day of the islamic calendar) but is observed as an optional fast on the 10th day of the islamic calendar (with some observing 3 days fast. shias also use it to commemorate the slaughter of muhammad (saw)s grandsons.
what I find interesting however is that most christians dont observe fasting around this period and am curious to know why this is?
In islam, there is an analogue called yaum ashura which is observed around the same time as yom kippur (on the 10th day of the islamic calendar) but is observed as an optional fast on the 10th day of the islamic calendar (with some observing 3 days fast. shias also use it to commemorate the slaughter of muhammad (saw)s grandsons.
what I find interesting however is that most christians dont observe fasting around this period and am curious to know why this is?
(edited 5 years ago)
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I think you might be mistaken. Although you were right when you said Yom Kippur involves a 25hr fast and is on the 10th day of the Jewish Calender, Yom Kippur does not commentate Moses freedom from the Pharaoh. Yom Kippur is the day of atonement where Jews repent for their sins. And most Christians do acknowledge Yom Kippur but do not pray / fast the same way Jews do, as Christians have their own way of repenting sins ( e.g Catholics have confession). Also Yom Kippur is only mentioned in the Old Testament and although Christians believe in the Old Testament, we only really practice the holy days stated in the New Testament (e.g Christmas and Easter )
Original post by Elisamary30
...
you are correct (and my comment will be corrected)
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by quasa
This is a question which has piqued my interest for the last few days. tl;dr yom kippur is observed on the 10th day of the jewish calendar to commemorate moses' to atone for sins and involves a sunset to sunset fast.
In islam, there is an analogue called yaum ashura which is observed around the same time as yom kippur (on the 10th day of the islamic calendar) but is observed as an optional fast on the 10th day of the islamic calendar (with some observing 3 days fas. shias also use it to commemorate the slaughter of muhammad (saw)s grandsons.
what I find interesting however is that most christians dont observe fasting around this period and am curious to know why this is?
In islam, there is an analogue called yaum ashura which is observed around the same time as yom kippur (on the 10th day of the islamic calendar) but is observed as an optional fast on the 10th day of the islamic calendar (with some observing 3 days fas. shias also use it to commemorate the slaughter of muhammad (saw)s grandsons.
what I find interesting however is that most christians dont observe fasting around this period and am curious to know why this is?
What's the context to your question about Yom Kippur for Christians?
Original post by adelphos
What's the context to your question about Yom Kippur for Christians?
curious as christianity is an abrahamic faith and judaism & islam both observe a period of fasting around that time (islam has ashura around then which is optional but many do it due to religious significance).
Also curious to know why you are replying to a very old thread
(edited 5 years ago)
Sure. Hopefully, "21-09-2018 21:35" isn't too long ago, is it?
Here's an answer.
The term "Abrahamic faith" is not the most exact term and is a bit misleading. That is, Abraham himself never taught or promoted two or three faiths.
The Genesis account writes, "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee... Every man child among you shall be circumcised. And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. " (Genesis 17) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+17&version=KJV
Ishmael vs Isaac is where the split begins. Ishmael is Abraham's first born son, however, an illegitimate son of Hagar the servant girl. This was encouraged by Sarah, and it was not according to God's plan / directions for them.
Isaac is the legitimate heir born of Sarah, who becomes the father of Israel, and the father of "many nations" and "kings". His birth resulted in Jewish kingdoms and the Jewish and Judeo-Christian faith.
Ishmael, however, although illegitimate was protected by God, and blessed also. God is merciful that way. Abraham pleaded for his life, and this seems to be the catalyst, since God said, "As for Ishmael, I have heard thee".
The next part in Genesis 17 writes, "And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year." (Genesis 18-21)
Ishmael became the father of the Arabs. And there is no record of their "Abrahamic faith" to my knowledge.
To my knowledge, the author of Islam, Muhammed, was born around 570 AD. That is, well after the facts of Christ, Moses, King David, King Solomon, the various prophets who engaged with the Babylonian and Persian Empire, and Abraham. Mohammed even cam after the Roman Empire and the Emperor Constantine (the last-ish emperor who mandated Roman Catholic 'Christianity' ). A very late arrival indeed. -- Mohammed's veracity could also be argued against and refuted, but that's another topic.
As to fasting: In Judaism and Judeo-Christianity, fasting is not a religious externalism to be shown off, or marked on a calendar. -- In general, this seems to be a significant difference to Islam.
The Hebrew word for fast is "tsûwm" and means "to cover the mouth". https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H6684&t=KJV It's a simple word that has no other connotations, no religious connotation. So in modern English, it would similar to the term 'diet' or expressions like 'lost appetite' or 'abstinence from food' or perhaps 'refusal to eat'. It could also be compared the current (alcoholic) drinking culture, and opting to "not drink", as opposed to the norm where everyone has glass in hand. -- Again, this is contrary to the Islamic notion of consuming certain foods before sunrise, and feasting after sunset, etc.. and the religious aspect of fasting done publicly like festival.
Biblical fasting was historically done voluntarily out of a heartfelt devotion. Sometimes when mourning the loss of a loved one, people lose their appetite and feel it inappropriate to eat (i.e. the opposite of feasting and gluttony). At other times, in a spiritual sense, fasting is used to discipline the body in an attempt to draw oneself closer God and to please him (i.e. a repentance from carnality, gluttony, sexual immorality, etc, which is a hindrance to holiness). Ultimately the objective is done out of love, whether for a person, or for God. That is, there is no religious mandate that demands "Fasting on Yom Kippur" or "fasting on Ramadan" for instance. These rules are made up by religious men.
For example, the earliest record of fasting during Samuel's reign (630-540 BC), the Jews were repentant and remorseful of their own sinful behaviour, so in response they emptied their water vessels and fasted, in a self-disciplinary way, in hopes to please God. Again, this was voluntary and not mandated by any calendar or religious chief, etc.
"And they gathered together to Mizpeh, and drew water, and poured it out before the LORD, and fasted on that day, and said there, We have sinned against the LORD. And Samuel judged the children of Israel in Mizpeh." (1 Samuel 7:6) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+sam+7%3A6&version=KJV
In another instance, King David fasted for a week with his soldiers when King Saul died (fell on his own sword by help of a servant). even though King Saul spent most of his life trying to kill David, David loved Saul and recognised that Saul was God's King, regardless of their differences. So, he fasted whilst mourning the loss of his king, and for the nation (since the future of the nation was uncertain).
"And they mourned, and wept, and fasted until even, for Saul, and for Jonathan his son, and for the people of the LORD, and for the house of Israel; because they were fallen by the sword." (2 Samuel 1:12) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+sam+1%3A12&version=KJV
At yet another instance, David had an illegitimate son with Bethsheba (the wife of an enemy soldier), and God killed the baby (displeased with David - but promised him a SECOND SON). Regardless, David broke down and mourned. He slept on the ground and refused to eat. His servants tried to feed him I believe, but he must have been very seriously remorseful, depressed, and or traumatised.
"David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in, and lay all night upon the earth." (2 Samuel 12:16) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+sam+12%3A16&version=KJV
The Jews, however, later did get carried away with fasting (and this maybe where Islam took inspiration).
At one point, God himself spoke through Zechariah and condemned the people for fasting selfishly. He didn't command fasting, but he acknowledges it in association to mourning. The key here is his rejection of selfish fasting that is not genuinely directed at God, i.e. devotionally. He also acknowledges fasting on the "fifth and seventh month" for "seventy years", so it seems fasting became a cultural routine (again, this is likely where Islam took inspiration).
"Then came the word of the LORD of hosts unto me, saying, Speak unto all the people of the land, and to the priests, saying, When ye fasted and mourned in the fifth and seventh month, even those seventy years, did ye at all fast unto me, even to me? And when ye did eat, and when ye did drink, did not ye eat for yourselves, and drink for yourselves?" (Zechariah 7:4-6) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah+7%3A4-6&version=KJV
Similarly, Jesus Christ (who's the ancestor of David, who Christians and Messianic Jews know to be the Messiah and Son of God) does provide details about HOW to fast. The objective of fasting is directed solely at God and is a private matter between man and God, not a religious external show. We're instructed to maintain our appearance, hygiene, dress, etc. -- Again, this is contrary to the externalism seen in Ramadan.
"Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face; That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly." (Matthew 6:16-18) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6%3A16-18&version=KJV
More references to 'fasting' can be read here, https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H6684&t=KJV, along with the full lexicon from the Hebrew scholar Gesenius.
Here's an answer.
The term "Abrahamic faith" is not the most exact term and is a bit misleading. That is, Abraham himself never taught or promoted two or three faiths.
The Genesis account writes, "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee... Every man child among you shall be circumcised. And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. " (Genesis 17) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+17&version=KJV
Ishmael vs Isaac is where the split begins. Ishmael is Abraham's first born son, however, an illegitimate son of Hagar the servant girl. This was encouraged by Sarah, and it was not according to God's plan / directions for them.
Isaac is the legitimate heir born of Sarah, who becomes the father of Israel, and the father of "many nations" and "kings". His birth resulted in Jewish kingdoms and the Jewish and Judeo-Christian faith.
Ishmael, however, although illegitimate was protected by God, and blessed also. God is merciful that way. Abraham pleaded for his life, and this seems to be the catalyst, since God said, "As for Ishmael, I have heard thee".
The next part in Genesis 17 writes, "And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year." (Genesis 18-21)
Ishmael became the father of the Arabs. And there is no record of their "Abrahamic faith" to my knowledge.
To my knowledge, the author of Islam, Muhammed, was born around 570 AD. That is, well after the facts of Christ, Moses, King David, King Solomon, the various prophets who engaged with the Babylonian and Persian Empire, and Abraham. Mohammed even cam after the Roman Empire and the Emperor Constantine (the last-ish emperor who mandated Roman Catholic 'Christianity' ). A very late arrival indeed. -- Mohammed's veracity could also be argued against and refuted, but that's another topic.
As to fasting: In Judaism and Judeo-Christianity, fasting is not a religious externalism to be shown off, or marked on a calendar. -- In general, this seems to be a significant difference to Islam.
The Hebrew word for fast is "tsûwm" and means "to cover the mouth". https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H6684&t=KJV It's a simple word that has no other connotations, no religious connotation. So in modern English, it would similar to the term 'diet' or expressions like 'lost appetite' or 'abstinence from food' or perhaps 'refusal to eat'. It could also be compared the current (alcoholic) drinking culture, and opting to "not drink", as opposed to the norm where everyone has glass in hand. -- Again, this is contrary to the Islamic notion of consuming certain foods before sunrise, and feasting after sunset, etc.. and the religious aspect of fasting done publicly like festival.
Biblical fasting was historically done voluntarily out of a heartfelt devotion. Sometimes when mourning the loss of a loved one, people lose their appetite and feel it inappropriate to eat (i.e. the opposite of feasting and gluttony). At other times, in a spiritual sense, fasting is used to discipline the body in an attempt to draw oneself closer God and to please him (i.e. a repentance from carnality, gluttony, sexual immorality, etc, which is a hindrance to holiness). Ultimately the objective is done out of love, whether for a person, or for God. That is, there is no religious mandate that demands "Fasting on Yom Kippur" or "fasting on Ramadan" for instance. These rules are made up by religious men.
For example, the earliest record of fasting during Samuel's reign (630-540 BC), the Jews were repentant and remorseful of their own sinful behaviour, so in response they emptied their water vessels and fasted, in a self-disciplinary way, in hopes to please God. Again, this was voluntary and not mandated by any calendar or religious chief, etc.
"And they gathered together to Mizpeh, and drew water, and poured it out before the LORD, and fasted on that day, and said there, We have sinned against the LORD. And Samuel judged the children of Israel in Mizpeh." (1 Samuel 7:6) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+sam+7%3A6&version=KJV
In another instance, King David fasted for a week with his soldiers when King Saul died (fell on his own sword by help of a servant). even though King Saul spent most of his life trying to kill David, David loved Saul and recognised that Saul was God's King, regardless of their differences. So, he fasted whilst mourning the loss of his king, and for the nation (since the future of the nation was uncertain).
"And they mourned, and wept, and fasted until even, for Saul, and for Jonathan his son, and for the people of the LORD, and for the house of Israel; because they were fallen by the sword." (2 Samuel 1:12) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+sam+1%3A12&version=KJV
At yet another instance, David had an illegitimate son with Bethsheba (the wife of an enemy soldier), and God killed the baby (displeased with David - but promised him a SECOND SON). Regardless, David broke down and mourned. He slept on the ground and refused to eat. His servants tried to feed him I believe, but he must have been very seriously remorseful, depressed, and or traumatised.
"David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in, and lay all night upon the earth." (2 Samuel 12:16) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+sam+12%3A16&version=KJV
The Jews, however, later did get carried away with fasting (and this maybe where Islam took inspiration).
At one point, God himself spoke through Zechariah and condemned the people for fasting selfishly. He didn't command fasting, but he acknowledges it in association to mourning. The key here is his rejection of selfish fasting that is not genuinely directed at God, i.e. devotionally. He also acknowledges fasting on the "fifth and seventh month" for "seventy years", so it seems fasting became a cultural routine (again, this is likely where Islam took inspiration).
"Then came the word of the LORD of hosts unto me, saying, Speak unto all the people of the land, and to the priests, saying, When ye fasted and mourned in the fifth and seventh month, even those seventy years, did ye at all fast unto me, even to me? And when ye did eat, and when ye did drink, did not ye eat for yourselves, and drink for yourselves?" (Zechariah 7:4-6) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah+7%3A4-6&version=KJV
Similarly, Jesus Christ (who's the ancestor of David, who Christians and Messianic Jews know to be the Messiah and Son of God) does provide details about HOW to fast. The objective of fasting is directed solely at God and is a private matter between man and God, not a religious external show. We're instructed to maintain our appearance, hygiene, dress, etc. -- Again, this is contrary to the externalism seen in Ramadan.
"Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face; That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly." (Matthew 6:16-18) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6%3A16-18&version=KJV
More references to 'fasting' can be read here, https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H6684&t=KJV, along with the full lexicon from the Hebrew scholar Gesenius.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by adelphos
That is, there is no religious mandate that demands "Fasting on Yom Kippur"
There is a commandment in Judaism: "Not to eat or drink on Yom Kippur".
Original post by admonit
There is a commandment in Judaism...
Please reference said commandment.
Who created you, led you out of Egypt, died for you, and who offers salvation? That is, do you do Yom Kippur and fast to please God, or are you following commandments of men to to please yourself?
Judaism has many facets, and much of today's modern Judaism is not biblical. It would not be approved by Moses and the prophets, and definitely not by Yeshua Ha'Mashiach the Mashiach, son of David and Son of God. It would, however, be approved by uninspired and undivine authors like Maimonides who wrote the Mishneh Torah, a 'code of Jewish Law written much later in 1170-1180 (vs the Torah which was written 4000 years ago by God himself), and Maimonides was very popularly rejected by Jews at the time for being unbiblical. Maimonides himself acknowledged this.
About fasting: Sources like Judaism 101, and many others, will say, "It is well-known that you are supposed to refrain from eating and drinking (even water) on Yom Kippur." http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday4.htm Except this does not make it correct. Argumentum ad populum and all.
You must remember that the origin of Judaism is in the Exodus, i.e. the Mosaic era. These were the 'real Jews' (if there is such a thing - since Israel is a "nation" of people who "serve God", i.e. not racially exclusive). The Jews nowadays, however, teach partly Mosasi teachings plus made up things like Maimonide's code. We know this because the Bible itself tells us (about false teaching vs the importance of Torah). For example, David in Psalm 119 (the longest Psalm) constantly upholds the Torah as God's Mitsvah, praising God for it, saying that he lives by it, that it's the way of righteousness, etc. He repeats this some 30+ times. The Torah = Pentateuch = First 5 Books of the Bible, and no where does it command fasting... Not to my knowledge.
About Yom Kippur:
The parts that refer to 'Yom Kippur' in the Torah is found in Leviticus 16 and 23:27-32 and Numbers 29:7-11. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=+Leviticus+16%3B+23%3A27-32%3B+Num+29%3A7-11.+&version=KJV;WLC
"The term Yom Kippur is actually written in the PLURAL in the Torah, Yom Ha-Kippurim (Leviticus 23:27 and Numbers 29:11 write, "י֧וֹם הַכִּפֻּרִ֣ים" Yom-Ha-Kippurim and "הַכִּפֻּרִ֣ים" Ha-Kippurim), perhaps because the purification process cleansed from a multitude of transgressions, iniquities, and sins. However, the name also alludes to the two great atonements given by the LORD - the first for those among the nations who turn to Yeshua for cleansing and forgiveness, and the second for the purification of ethnic Israel during Yom Adonai, the great Day of the LOD at the end of days. -- Kippurim can be read as Yom Ke-Purim, a "day like Purim," that is, a day of deliverance and salvation (as explained in the Book of Esther). Thus the day on which Yeshua sacrificed Himself on the cross is the greatest "Purim" of all, since through Him we are eternally delivered from the hands of our enemies. -- The Torah states that Yom Kippur was the only time when the High Priest could enter the Holy of Holies and call upon he Name of YHVH to offer blood sacrifice for the sins of the people. This "life for life" principles is the foundation of the sacrificial system and marked the great day of intercession made by the High Priest on behalf of Israel." Read the rest here, https://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/Fall_Holidays/Yom_Kippur/yom_kippur.html
Hope that makes sense.
Shalom and God bless you
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by adelphos
Please reference said commandment.
Not to eat or drink on Yom Kippur — Lev. 23:29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
That is, do you do Yom Kippur and fast to please God, or are you following commandments of men to to please yourself?
Neither of them. Religious Jews consider Yom Kippur as the Day of Atonement.
Judaism has many facets, and much of today's modern Judaism is not biblical. It would not be approved by Moses and the prophets, and definitely not by Yeshua Ha'Mashiach the Mashiach, son of David and Son of God.
Possible attitude of Moses and the prophets to today's Judaism is a big question, but there is no questions about their negative attitude to Jesus.
Maimonides was very popularly rejected by Jews at the time for being unbiblical. Maimonides himself acknowledged this.
During his lifetime, most Jews greeted Maimonides' writings on Jewish law and ethics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maimonides
About fasting: Sources like Judaism 101, and many others, will say, "It is well-known that you are supposed to refrain from eating and drinking (even water) on Yom Kippur." http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday4.htm Except this does not make it correct. Argumentum ad populum and all.
The only main argument in Judaism is Tora and your link references it: "The holiday is instituted at Leviticus 16:29-30."
The Torah = Pentateuch = First 5 Books of the Bible, and no where does it command fasting...
If you think, that you can "deny yourself" and at the same time enjoy your food - it's OK. Apparently Jews have another opinion about their spiritual teaching.
However, the name also alludes to the two great atonements given by the LORD - the first for those among the nations who turn to Yeshua for cleansing and forgiveness, and the second for the purification of ethnic Israel during Yom Adonai, the great Day of the LOD at the end of days. -- Kippurim can be read as Yom Ke-Purim, a "day like Purim," that is, a day of deliverance and salvation (as explained in the Book of Esther).
The festival Purim and Yom Kippur have nothing in common.
Thank you for your reply. -- I'm glad you acknowledge that "Moses and the prophets to today's Judaism is a big question". This is key, as Scripture is the Word of God, it's the primary source of all knowledge; and Moses, Jesus, Maimonides, or a modern rabbi, can be authenticated by Scripture.
The dilemma is false teaching and the manipulation of Scripture by those, "Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator" (Romans 1:25). Hence Hashem, said, "thou hast forgotten me, and trusted in falsehood." (Jeremiah 13:25), which is a constant theme in Jewish history.
Jeremiah, writes,
"Thus saith the Lord, After this manner will I mar the pride of Judah, and the great pride of Jerusalem. This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing. For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the Lord; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear." (Jeremiah 13:9-11) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah+13%3A9-11&version=KJV;WLC
So, please, hear what God actually wrote in Leviticus...
The word used is "Kippurim", and yes, it is the same word as "purrim". 'Yom' simply means 'day', or 'day (of)'. If read my post, you would know.
I repeat,
Prof. Baruch J. Schwartz from the The Hebrew University of Jerusalem, writes,
"In the Bible itself, however, it (Kippur) is not the fast, not the cessation from work, not the refraining from physical pleasures that secure kippur. In the Bible, the kippur is accomplished by means of the elaborate ritual performed on the Day of Kippurim as prescribed at length in Leviticus 16, the Torah reading for Yom Kippur morning." https://thetorah.com/yom-ha-kippurim-the-biblical-significance/
Schwartz also notes, that "the verb kipper means “to cleanse,” “to decontaminate.” This meaning of kipper was noted centuries ago by Rashi, and is now confirmed by our knowledge of ancient Semitic languages."
Therefore, Leviticus 16, clearly about PURIM / CLEANSING / ATONEMENT FOR SIN. It is not about 'fasting' as a priority or "denying yourself". It's like an ordinary "sabbath rest" (shabbat) day except the objective is ATONEMENT FOR SINS. To be cleansed (purim). -- As per Pesach / Passover, such cleansing can only be done with an "a lamb without blemish" (Exodus 12:5). Hence God said, "And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt." (Exodus 12:13). The plague of course being death (everything on earth is cursed to die, everything).
Leviticus 16:29-31 writes, "And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you: For on that day shall the priest make an ATONEMENT for you, to CLEANSE you, that ye may be CLEAN from all your sins before the Lord. It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever." https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+16%3A29-31&version=KJV;WLC
[For more about Kippurim, the lamb / ram offering, see Yom HaKippurim Study by Yochanan Zaqantov. He covers the "ram of expiation (hakippurim הַכִּפֻּרִים)", and "a ram without blemish from the flock, or the equivalent, as a guilt offering. The priest shall make expiation (vekipper וְכִפֶּר) on his behalf for the error that he committed unwittingly, and he shall be forgiven." http://www.karaitejudaism.org/talks/Yom_Kippurim_Study.htm -- So Yom Kippur is very much about guilt / sin offering and forgiveness of sins.]
About self-denial: Interestingly, Zaqantov's coverage of 'self-denial', such as, "You shall practice self-denial (ve’iniytem et naf’shoteykhem וְעִנִּיתֶם אֶת־נַפְשֹׁתֵיכֶם); it is a law for all time.", is a KEY THEME emphasised and commanded by Jesus in the New Testament: "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." (Luke 9:23) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+9%3A23&version=KJV;TR1550
The Greek word for deny is ἀπαρνέομαι aparnéomai and is defined by Strong's Lexicon as "to deny utterly", which, implies a type of denial that is beyond food and drink (hence fasting is not explicitly commanded in Scripture). It also connotes a denial of a person's whole life and soul, as per the atonement and cleansing described in Leviticus! -- But alas such kipurim / purim is TEMPORARY, so for the Jew, it begs the question, 'TO WHAT END?'
About Maimonides: Do you consider Maimonides a prophet? Listen to Jewish Mr. Gabizon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49fXyNg-2QU; and read this, http://www.elijahnet.net/Can%20the%20Messiah%20Die.html
Here's a few of my favourite Jewish testimonies:
- Jewish Dr. Dauermann https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZz0SmkzaRY
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sMEkGoojbg&t=12s
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSQvXstfQos
About Jesus: Jesus is a Jew. His name is the same as Joshua (the first rightful king), and he's the ancestor to King David, and he was written about in the Jewish Bible, the Masoretic Text (as per quotes above). -- Jesus is "first for the Jews".
The Lord God Yeshua Ha'Massiach is your personal saviour. He came to seek to and save the lost sheep of Israel. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+15%3A24&version=KJV
I hope that makes sense. You're welcome to PM for more info.
Blessings and shalom
The dilemma is false teaching and the manipulation of Scripture by those, "Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator" (Romans 1:25). Hence Hashem, said, "thou hast forgotten me, and trusted in falsehood." (Jeremiah 13:25), which is a constant theme in Jewish history.
Jeremiah, writes,
"Thus saith the Lord, After this manner will I mar the pride of Judah, and the great pride of Jerusalem. This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing. For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the Lord; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear." (Jeremiah 13:9-11) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah+13%3A9-11&version=KJV;WLC
So, please, hear what God actually wrote in Leviticus...
The word used is "Kippurim", and yes, it is the same word as "purrim". 'Yom' simply means 'day', or 'day (of)'. If read my post, you would know.
I repeat,
Original post by adelphos
Leviticus 23:27 and Numbers 29:11 write,"י֧וֹם הַכִּפֻּרִ֣ים" Yom-Ha-Kippurim and "הַכִּפֻּרִ֣ים" Ha-Kippurim
Prof. Baruch J. Schwartz from the The Hebrew University of Jerusalem, writes,
"In the Bible itself, however, it (Kippur) is not the fast, not the cessation from work, not the refraining from physical pleasures that secure kippur. In the Bible, the kippur is accomplished by means of the elaborate ritual performed on the Day of Kippurim as prescribed at length in Leviticus 16, the Torah reading for Yom Kippur morning." https://thetorah.com/yom-ha-kippurim-the-biblical-significance/
Schwartz also notes, that "the verb kipper means “to cleanse,” “to decontaminate.” This meaning of kipper was noted centuries ago by Rashi, and is now confirmed by our knowledge of ancient Semitic languages."
Therefore, Leviticus 16, clearly about PURIM / CLEANSING / ATONEMENT FOR SIN. It is not about 'fasting' as a priority or "denying yourself". It's like an ordinary "sabbath rest" (shabbat) day except the objective is ATONEMENT FOR SINS. To be cleansed (purim). -- As per Pesach / Passover, such cleansing can only be done with an "a lamb without blemish" (Exodus 12:5). Hence God said, "And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt." (Exodus 12:13). The plague of course being death (everything on earth is cursed to die, everything).
Leviticus 16:29-31 writes, "And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you: For on that day shall the priest make an ATONEMENT for you, to CLEANSE you, that ye may be CLEAN from all your sins before the Lord. It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever." https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+16%3A29-31&version=KJV;WLC
[For more about Kippurim, the lamb / ram offering, see Yom HaKippurim Study by Yochanan Zaqantov. He covers the "ram of expiation (hakippurim הַכִּפֻּרִים)", and "a ram without blemish from the flock, or the equivalent, as a guilt offering. The priest shall make expiation (vekipper וְכִפֶּר) on his behalf for the error that he committed unwittingly, and he shall be forgiven." http://www.karaitejudaism.org/talks/Yom_Kippurim_Study.htm -- So Yom Kippur is very much about guilt / sin offering and forgiveness of sins.]
About self-denial: Interestingly, Zaqantov's coverage of 'self-denial', such as, "You shall practice self-denial (ve’iniytem et naf’shoteykhem וְעִנִּיתֶם אֶת־נַפְשֹׁתֵיכֶם); it is a law for all time.", is a KEY THEME emphasised and commanded by Jesus in the New Testament: "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." (Luke 9:23) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+9%3A23&version=KJV;TR1550
The Greek word for deny is ἀπαρνέομαι aparnéomai and is defined by Strong's Lexicon as "to deny utterly", which, implies a type of denial that is beyond food and drink (hence fasting is not explicitly commanded in Scripture). It also connotes a denial of a person's whole life and soul, as per the atonement and cleansing described in Leviticus! -- But alas such kipurim / purim is TEMPORARY, so for the Jew, it begs the question, 'TO WHAT END?'
About Maimonides: Do you consider Maimonides a prophet? Listen to Jewish Mr. Gabizon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49fXyNg-2QU; and read this, http://www.elijahnet.net/Can%20the%20Messiah%20Die.html
Here's a few of my favourite Jewish testimonies:
- Jewish Dr. Dauermann https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZz0SmkzaRY
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sMEkGoojbg&t=12s
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSQvXstfQos
About Jesus: Jesus is a Jew. His name is the same as Joshua (the first rightful king), and he's the ancestor to King David, and he was written about in the Jewish Bible, the Masoretic Text (as per quotes above). -- Jesus is "first for the Jews".
The Lord God Yeshua Ha'Massiach is your personal saviour. He came to seek to and save the lost sheep of Israel. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+15%3A24&version=KJV
I hope that makes sense. You're welcome to PM for more info.
Blessings and shalom
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by quasa
This is a question which has piqued my interest for the last few days. tl;dr yom kippur is observed on the 10th day of the jewish calendar to commemorate moses' to atone for sins and involves a sunset to sunset fast.
In islam, there is an analogue called yaum ashura which is observed around the same time as yom kippur (on the 10th day of the islamic calendar) but is observed as an optional fast on the 10th day of the islamic calendar (with some observing 3 days fas. shias also use it to commemorate the slaughter of muhammad (saw)s grandsons.
what I find interesting however is that most christians dont observe fasting around this period and am curious to know why this is?
In islam, there is an analogue called yaum ashura which is observed around the same time as yom kippur (on the 10th day of the islamic calendar) but is observed as an optional fast on the 10th day of the islamic calendar (with some observing 3 days fas. shias also use it to commemorate the slaughter of muhammad (saw)s grandsons.
what I find interesting however is that most christians dont observe fasting around this period and am curious to know why this is?
Original post by admonit
... The festival Purim and Yom Kippur have nothing in common.
Kippurim = Purim = Royal Law, which is two-fold. First for God, then for man. To "Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, mind and strength; and love thy neighbour as thyself" (Luke 10:27) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+10%3A27&version=KJV;TR1550
The Edmond J Safra Synagogue, writes, "The plural form "Kippurim" alludes to the two categories of "Ben Adam La'Makom" – sins committed solely against God – and "Ben Adam La'havero" – sins committed against one's fellow man. On Yom Kippur one must "settle his accounts," so-to-speak with both the Almighty and his fellow men, and work on these two areas of religious life – his obligations to God, and his obligations towards other people." http://www.dailyhalacha.com/m/halacha.aspx?id=1498
Again, the implications on Yom Kippur that are wider, deeper, and more intimate than fasting or an external ritual. -- Someone who follows God is to commit to him. Hence the Jews became 'Hebrews' once they cross the Red Sea, and were no longer 'Jews' at all. Ivri (עברי) means "to traverse" or "to pass over" into the Land of the Living https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrews
A Jew today must ask himself: Am I a Jew or a Hebrew? Do I follow after the man-made culture of men, or God who saved us?
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Tootles
... Because we're (Christians) not Jewish. We have Pascha (or Easter), when we celebrate that Christ did that for us.
That's a common mis-conception.
1) Pascha ≠ Easter
2) Easter = Ishtar, "The Queen of Heaven" who is a Sumerian / Babylonian goddess (which the Roman Catholic church adopted)
3) Easter is not commanded in the Bible (not mentioned in the New Testament)
This is thoroughly covered by Alexander Hislop's, The Two Babylons (1853), which is essential reading for a Christian has wondered about the authenticity of Christ-mas, Easter, and the like http://www.ldolphin.org/PDFs/The_Two_Babylons-Alexander_Hislop.pdf
Also, the first Council of Nicaea in 325 arbitrated observance of "Easter", so it's hardly pascha / passover. It was also mandated to be on "Sunday" which is NOT a sabbath day, not the 7th day, meaning it is totally out of sync with God's 4th commandment / sabbath (shabbat) / passover (pesach) / (the real) pascha. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_controversy -- Also, these early Roman Catholics and other Christians antagonised the Jews (Council of Laodicea for example), which Christ did nothing of the sort (he did the opposite - embraced them, to save them, to die for them). And arguably this enmity (which was made up lie) contributed to the crusades (to claim Jerusalem) and the Nazi holocaust (racial impurity), and anit-semitism in general, which is so so wrong, and a huge reason Jews are scared of 'Christians' and 'Jesus'.
Christians follow Christ. Fake Christians don't.
The Bible is clear that Jesus Christ kept passover.
Matthew writes, "Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover (πάσχα, pascha)? And he (Jesus) said... My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples. ... And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover." (Matthew 26:17-19) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+26%3A1-19&version=KJV;TR1550
i.e. "The Feast of Unleavened Bread" = Passover (Pesach) = Pascha
≠ Easter. Easter is pagan idolatry.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by adelphos
That's a common mis-conception.
1) Pascha ≠ Easter
2) Easter = Ishtar, "The Queen of Heaven" who is a Sumerian / Babylonian goddess (which the Roman Catholic church adopted)
3) Easter is not commanded in the Bible (not mentioned in the New Testament)
This is thoroughly covered by Alexander Hislop's, The Two Babylons (1853), which is essential reading for a Christian has wondered about the authenticity of Christ-mas, Easter, and the like http://www.ldolphin.org/PDFs/The_Two_Babylons-Alexander_Hislop.pdf
Also, the first Council of Nicaea in 325 arbitrated observance of "Easter", so it's hardly pascha / passover. It was also mandated to be on "Sunday" which is NOT a sabbath day, not the 7th day, meaning it is totally out of sync with God's 4th commandment / sabbath (shabbat) / passover (pesach) / (the real) pascha. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_controversy
Christians follow Christ, and Jesus Christ kept passover.
Matthew writes, "Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover (πάσχα, pascha)? And he (Jesus) said... My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples. ... And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover." (Matthew 26:17-19) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+26%3A1-19&version=KJV;TR1550
i.e. "The Feast of Unleavened Bread" = Passover (Pesach) = Pascha
≠ Easter. Easter is pagan idolatry.
1) Pascha ≠ Easter
2) Easter = Ishtar, "The Queen of Heaven" who is a Sumerian / Babylonian goddess (which the Roman Catholic church adopted)
3) Easter is not commanded in the Bible (not mentioned in the New Testament)
This is thoroughly covered by Alexander Hislop's, The Two Babylons (1853), which is essential reading for a Christian has wondered about the authenticity of Christ-mas, Easter, and the like http://www.ldolphin.org/PDFs/The_Two_Babylons-Alexander_Hislop.pdf
Also, the first Council of Nicaea in 325 arbitrated observance of "Easter", so it's hardly pascha / passover. It was also mandated to be on "Sunday" which is NOT a sabbath day, not the 7th day, meaning it is totally out of sync with God's 4th commandment / sabbath (shabbat) / passover (pesach) / (the real) pascha. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_controversy
Christians follow Christ, and Jesus Christ kept passover.
Matthew writes, "Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover (πάσχα, pascha)? And he (Jesus) said... My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples. ... And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover." (Matthew 26:17-19) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+26%3A1-19&version=KJV;TR1550
i.e. "The Feast of Unleavened Bread" = Passover (Pesach) = Pascha
≠ Easter. Easter is pagan idolatry.
Pascha is the Orthodox term that refers to Easter, adopted from "Pesach" via the Greek loanword form of that word. Pascha means "passover", and refers to Christ as our passover - the Lamb of God, whose blood was shed, and with whose blood we mark ourselves (figuratively) so that death may pass us over.
Original post by Tootles
... Pascha is the Orthodox term that refers to Easter, adopted from "Pesach" via the Greek loanword form of that word...
Agreed to disagree. Pascha = πάσχα = Passover (Pesach) ≠ Easter
See definition in Thayer's Greek Lexicon, "to pass over", and the "paschal sacrifice for the people's deliverance from old Egypt" and the "paschal lamb which the Israelites slain and ate", https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=g3957
See equivalency in Mat 26:3, 26:17, 26:18; Mar 14:1, 14:12; Mar 14:14, 14:16; Luk 2:41; Luk 22:1, 22:8, 22:11, 22:13;... and the literal sacrifice of Jesus (as the Lamb without blemish) during Passover in John Jhn 13:1; John 18:39; Jhn 19:4, where this is most explicitly expressed in Paul's words, "Christ our passover is sacrificed for us" (1 Cor 5:7) and "Through faith he kept the passover" (Heb 11:28). -- All of which use the word Pascha, πάσχα, and not 'Easter' (i.e. Pascha = πάσχα = Passover (Pesach) ≠ Easter).
Easter is fake. It's a pagan word, and definitely not biblical. "Let God be true and every man a liar".
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by adelphos
Agreed to disagree. Pascha = πάσχα = Passover (Pesach) ≠ Easter
See definition in Thayer's Greek Lexicon, "to pass over", and the "paschal sacrifice for the people's deliverance from old Egypt" and the "paschal lamb which the Israelites slain and ate", https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=g3957
See equivalency in Mat 26:3, 26:17, 26:18; Mar 14:1, 14:12; Mar 14:14, 14:16; Luk 2:41; Luk 22:1, 22:8, 22:11, 22:13;... and the literal sacrifice of Jesus (as the Lamb without blemish) during Passover in John Jhn 13:1; John 18:39; Jhn 19:4, where this is most explicitly expressed in Paul's words, "Christ our passover is sacrificed for us" (1 Cor 5:7) and "Through faith he kept the passover" (Heb 11:28). -- All of which use the word Pascha, πάσχα, and not 'Easter' (i.e. Pascha = πάσχα = Passover (Pesach) ≠ Easter).
Easter is fake. It's a pagan word, and definitely not biblical. "Let God be true and every man a liar".
See definition in Thayer's Greek Lexicon, "to pass over", and the "paschal sacrifice for the people's deliverance from old Egypt" and the "paschal lamb which the Israelites slain and ate", https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=g3957
See equivalency in Mat 26:3, 26:17, 26:18; Mar 14:1, 14:12; Mar 14:14, 14:16; Luk 2:41; Luk 22:1, 22:8, 22:11, 22:13;... and the literal sacrifice of Jesus (as the Lamb without blemish) during Passover in John Jhn 13:1; John 18:39; Jhn 19:4, where this is most explicitly expressed in Paul's words, "Christ our passover is sacrificed for us" (1 Cor 5:7) and "Through faith he kept the passover" (Heb 11:28). -- All of which use the word Pascha, πάσχα, and not 'Easter' (i.e. Pascha = πάσχα = Passover (Pesach) ≠ Easter).
Easter is fake. It's a pagan word, and definitely not biblical. "Let God be true and every man a liar".
Original post by quasa
This is a question which has piqued my interest for the last few days. tl;dr yom kippur is observed on the 10th day of the jewish calendar to atone for sins and involves a sunset to sunset fast.
In islam, there is an analogue called yaum ashura which is observed around the same time as yom kippur (on the 10th day of the islamic calendar) but is observed as an optional fast on the 10th day of the islamic calendar (with some observing 3 days fast. shias also use it to commemorate the slaughter of muhammad (saw)s grandsons.
what I find interesting however is that most christians dont observe fasting around this period and am curious to know why this is?
In islam, there is an analogue called yaum ashura which is observed around the same time as yom kippur (on the 10th day of the islamic calendar) but is observed as an optional fast on the 10th day of the islamic calendar (with some observing 3 days fast. shias also use it to commemorate the slaughter of muhammad (saw)s grandsons.
what I find interesting however is that most christians dont observe fasting around this period and am curious to know why this is?
"we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement" Romans 5v11
Atonement is at-one-ment.
In Christ (the promised Messiah of the Jews) we are reconciled to God, the old "stony" heart is replaced by His Spirit, for those that are on-going in the faith.
In fact all 7 Old Testament feasts are a foreshadow, a pre-figure, they speak on the death (Passover), resurrection (Firstfruits), out-pouring of the Spirit (Pentecost), preaching (Trumpets) and return (Ingathering) og Jesus Christ!
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by NJA
we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ
That's the point. Jews don't need a mediator between them and God.
Original post by admonit
That's the point. Jews don't need a mediator between them and God.
So what purpose does their promised Messiah serve?
What purpose do all the sacrifices, priesthood, temple regalia and special days serve.
Even Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek, do you walk so closely with God that you wouldn't need to?
(edited 5 years ago)
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