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Militant vegans storm steak house
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To people who don’t like preachy vegans, here’s why I think they do preach. Disclaimer: I am a vegan, but I don’t really talk about it (apart from now lol) because I cba to deal with the backlash irl.
Anyway, from a vegan perspective, we avoid animal products because of a number of reasons:
We think that sentient beings shouldn’t have to suffer for us unnecessarily (and it is unnecessary because humans can survive perfectly healthily on a plant based diet)
We think it’s better for the environment
We think it’s healthier for ourselves
Obviously when we try to convey that message to people who are doing those things it does come across as accusatory and preachy and I’m sorry about that, but it’s the way it has to be really.
I know as well it’s frustrating when restaurants get raided by vegans but imagine the small inconvenience of someone calling you names compared to being slaughtered on an industrial scale.
Having said that, this tactic won’t turn anyone vegan or make vegan more sympathetic so it’s probably a bad idea imo. And I’ve already run out of energy (mentally, not physically, inb4 B12 deficiency jokes) so peace and love, hmu if you have any questions or want to call me a pisskidney xx
Anyway, from a vegan perspective, we avoid animal products because of a number of reasons:
We think that sentient beings shouldn’t have to suffer for us unnecessarily (and it is unnecessary because humans can survive perfectly healthily on a plant based diet)
We think it’s better for the environment
We think it’s healthier for ourselves
Obviously when we try to convey that message to people who are doing those things it does come across as accusatory and preachy and I’m sorry about that, but it’s the way it has to be really.
I know as well it’s frustrating when restaurants get raided by vegans but imagine the small inconvenience of someone calling you names compared to being slaughtered on an industrial scale.
Having said that, this tactic won’t turn anyone vegan or make vegan more sympathetic so it’s probably a bad idea imo. And I’ve already run out of energy (mentally, not physically, inb4 B12 deficiency jokes) so peace and love, hmu if you have any questions or want to call me a pisskidney xx
Original post by literallyno
Obviously when we try to convey that message to people who are doing those things it does come across as accusatory and preachy and I’m sorry about that, but it’s the way it has to be really.
Obviously when we try to convey that message to people who are doing those things it does come across as accusatory and preachy and I’m sorry about that, but it’s the way it has to be really.
It doesn't have to be like that at all. You could just do what any sensible person would do and eat what you want to eat and let the rest of us get on with eating what we want to eat, and not seek to go into your reasons at all. You'll have noticed that very few non-vegans feel the need to storm vegan restaurants and try to shut them down.
Original post by Good bloke
It doesn't have to be like that at all. You could just do what any sensible person would do and eat what you want to eat and let the rest of us get on with eating what we want to eat, and not seek to go into your reasons at all. You'll have noticed that very few non-vegans feel the need to storm vegan restaurants and try to shut them down.
I did say I thought the storming of the restaurant was a bad idea, but maybe I didn’t explain quite what I meant properly. Vegans preach because from our point of view, a mass injustice and moral wrong is being committed, and we simply cannot do nothing. From a meat eater’s perspective I presume you wouldn’t see a moral problem or injustice so to you it looks like we’re preaching over something inconsequential like forcing people to like the colour red instead of blue. Is that a better way of putting it?
Original post by literallyno
I presume you wouldn’t see a moral problem or injustice so to you it looks like we’re preaching over something inconsequential like forcing people to like the colour red instead of blue. Is that a better way of putting it?
It is. There is nothing wrong with being vegan. The minute you start trying to convert others is the minute you descend to being comparable to the likes of Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, The minute you ruin my evening out is the moment I start actively disliking you and disliking your cause, and when you resort to violence is when you become a hateful criminal.
the poster above is right - veganism in its current form, as a position is far beyond just a choice of what to eat or what not to eat.
Its a moral ideology, and one that if you subscribe to, you can't help but want everyone to become vegan. Its the logical end to the position. If it were a simple preference, then they wouldn't want it to spread, but its not its more like a religion - it needs to spread, because for those who agree with it its the only right, moral and just way to live.. and its the only way to end suffering.
The reason their is an increase in political veganism at the moment is a combination of the following:
1, society in general is shifting leftwards culturally far faster then it used to.
2, the internet facilitates the growth of fringe positions/groups
3, extremism on all sides is growing and tolerance is falling within our society
4, meat-eaters are not used to having to defend their position, and in general have been taken off gaurd by having to justify something they never considered unusual before
5, The rapid growth in veganism in young people has spurred the movement on, both in numbers and ambition
---
Its dangerous though - and we are just seeing the first stages of it now.
Once you get an ideology that people subscribe to that says that anyone who does X is facilitating mass murder and concentration camps.. anyone who believes such feels entirely justified in taking radical action against those who are commiting the crime (in their eyes).
---
Personally I anticipate the end result of all this will be brought about by the perfection of lab-grown meat. Its already comng a long so fast, and we are so near to it now.. as soon as that's about, natural meat will die away for the majority of the population - and most people will be effectivly vegan, although will still eat 'meat'. Real meat will shrink and become an expensive fringe product.
Its the only way you will ever get mass-veganism. You will never convert the majority of people, but given an alternative that tasted the same, felt the same, looked the same, smelled the same, but didn't come from an animal? Then your on to a winner.
If vegans really wanted to make a long-term difference, and not just kick up a fuss and pretend to be morally supirior, they would raise and donate all they could to scientific reasearch into lab-grown tissue/meat
Its a moral ideology, and one that if you subscribe to, you can't help but want everyone to become vegan. Its the logical end to the position. If it were a simple preference, then they wouldn't want it to spread, but its not its more like a religion - it needs to spread, because for those who agree with it its the only right, moral and just way to live.. and its the only way to end suffering.
The reason their is an increase in political veganism at the moment is a combination of the following:
1, society in general is shifting leftwards culturally far faster then it used to.
2, the internet facilitates the growth of fringe positions/groups
3, extremism on all sides is growing and tolerance is falling within our society
4, meat-eaters are not used to having to defend their position, and in general have been taken off gaurd by having to justify something they never considered unusual before
5, The rapid growth in veganism in young people has spurred the movement on, both in numbers and ambition
---
Its dangerous though - and we are just seeing the first stages of it now.
Once you get an ideology that people subscribe to that says that anyone who does X is facilitating mass murder and concentration camps.. anyone who believes such feels entirely justified in taking radical action against those who are commiting the crime (in their eyes).
---
Personally I anticipate the end result of all this will be brought about by the perfection of lab-grown meat. Its already comng a long so fast, and we are so near to it now.. as soon as that's about, natural meat will die away for the majority of the population - and most people will be effectivly vegan, although will still eat 'meat'. Real meat will shrink and become an expensive fringe product.
Its the only way you will ever get mass-veganism. You will never convert the majority of people, but given an alternative that tasted the same, felt the same, looked the same, smelled the same, but didn't come from an animal? Then your on to a winner.
If vegans really wanted to make a long-term difference, and not just kick up a fuss and pretend to be morally supirior, they would raise and donate all they could to scientific reasearch into lab-grown tissue/meat
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by ThomH97
Why didn't the steakhouse owners kick them out? Or call the cops on them for trespassing when they refused to leave?
They did call the cops, guess what...
They (and others) cross the boundaries of what is democratically acceptably and tolerable with their shock tactics, we know how they see them as justified in terms of real impact and change and that there is some weight to that but... the problem is that if we tolerate it now we are encouraging further displays of anti-social behaviour on any front in future and the offer will be too tempting for some to resist.
Were these demonstrators or those last week in London to organize a march or event as it is their right to do and nobody would bat an eye-lid, democrats would be fine about it. Were those in Brighton (very progressive, down there) to camp outside that joint holding placards and behaving themselves, we would be fine about that too (reservations about commercial impact on that business and everyone earning a living out of it) . Trampling in like that is an infringement of other people's rights, this is just another example of a growing trend that ought to be discouraged but isn't.
Were these demonstrators or those last week in London to organize a march or event as it is their right to do and nobody would bat an eye-lid, democrats would be fine about it. Were those in Brighton (very progressive, down there) to camp outside that joint holding placards and behaving themselves, we would be fine about that too (reservations about commercial impact on that business and everyone earning a living out of it) . Trampling in like that is an infringement of other people's rights, this is just another example of a growing trend that ought to be discouraged but isn't.
Original post by CoolCavy
I dont like things like this, have your opinion but dont try to force it on others, same with any ideology.
I also dont like how thoughtless the whole thing is, what if it was someone's birthday meal or someone had been saving up for ages to go there as a treat or something, dont spoil things for other people
I also dont like how thoughtless the whole thing is, what if it was someone's birthday meal or someone had been saving up for ages to go there as a treat or something, dont spoil things for other people
Some of the more militant vegans don't seem to realise that tactics like this are more likely to make people switch off to the argument. I'm vegetarian & if people are interested to know why then I'll explain what I think about the meat industry, impact on the environment etc but I know if I started an argument about it just like that then its only going to annoy people.
I try to live an ethical lifestyle in general, but I know there's things I could do better on so I don't see how its my place to condemn anyone elses choices. I don't see it as an all or nothing thing either- if people make an effort to eat less meat and/ or switch to free range alternatives I think that's a step in the right direction. With some of these militant activists they've basically got the attitude of you're either with us or against us. Just the other week, I saw a few people handing out leaflets for one of these groups, this woman started talking to me & I mentioned I was vegetarian & had really cut down on dairy products. She got really argumentative with me about why wasn't I fully vegan & also had a go at me for wearing leather boots- I shut her up when I pointed out that they're actually synthetic leather. If they can find arguments to pick with someone who's already pro animal rights I don't know how the hell they expect to win meat eaters over to their cause.
Original post by Alesha1991
Some of the more militant vegans don't seem to realise that tactics like this are more likely to make people switch off to the argument. I'm vegetarian & if people are interested to know why then I'll explain what I think about the meat industry, impact on the environment etc but I know if I started an argument about it just like that then its only going to annoy people.
Original post by CoolCavy
I dont like things like this, have your opinion but dont try to force it on others, same with any ideology.
I also dont like how thoughtless the whole thing is, what if it was someone's birthday meal or someone had been saving up for ages to go there as a treat or something, dont spoil things for other people
I also dont like how thoughtless the whole thing is, what if it was someone's birthday meal or someone had been saving up for ages to go there as a treat or something, dont spoil things for other people
How ironic that you both condemn these so called 'nasty' vegans for forcing their opinion on people but you think its perfectly ok for animals lives to be forced away. ANIMALS TO BE FORCED TO LIVE IN AWFUL CONDITIONS, ANIMALS TO SCREM IN PAIN AND FIGHT FOR THEIR LIVES, ANIMALS TO BO FORCED TO HACE THEIR THROAT CUT BECAUSE THEY ARE SEEN TO BE NOTHING MORE THAN A PRODUCT. IT PERFECTLY OK FOR PEOPLE TO FORCE THEIR OPINION ONTO THESE ANIMALS?
Do you tell people who campaign against the yulin dog festivial to stop forcing their opinion onto people?
Original post by slotyu
But its ok to force your opinion onto nillions of animals each year and have them killed?
Also whats your opinion on people who say its wrong fot people to eat dogs or cats? What do you think would happen if someone electrocuted a dog/cat, cut its throat and chopped it up into little pieces? There would be a lot of people outraged with that person/people and they'd do a lot more than go into a plave and protest.
But that's ok isn't it?n because you like cat and dogs and find then cute?
Also whats your opinion on people who say its wrong fot people to eat dogs or cats? What do you think would happen if someone electrocuted a dog/cat, cut its throat and chopped it up into little pieces? There would be a lot of people outraged with that person/people and they'd do a lot more than go into a plave and protest.
But that's ok isn't it?n because you like cat and dogs and find then cute?
That argument simply doesn't work on someone who doesn't have the same axiomatic belief as you that cows, pigs and chickens are equal to humans.
Original post by slotyu
But its ok to force your opinion onto nillions of animals each year and have them killed?
Also whats your opinion on people who say its wrong fot people to eat dogs or cats? What do you think would happen if someone electrocuted a dog/cat, cut its throat and chopped it up into little pieces? There would be a lot of people outraged with that person/people and they'd do a lot more than go into a plave and protest.
But that's ok isn't it?n because you like cat and dogs and find then cute?
Also whats your opinion on people who say its wrong fot people to eat dogs or cats? What do you think would happen if someone electrocuted a dog/cat, cut its throat and chopped it up into little pieces? There would be a lot of people outraged with that person/people and they'd do a lot more than go into a plave and protest.
But that's ok isn't it?n because you like cat and dogs and find then cute?
Lol to be honest mate i only eat some meats , just cause i dont like the taste of a lot of them, but if someone wants to eat cats and dogs i really dont care.
i would care if they were forcing me to eat it.
same way i dont care if youre vegan, dont be a fkin cnt about it and act like these obviouisly handicapped militants who forgot that forcing your opinions on other people is fascism. you lot are hypocrites of the highest level. im not gonna storm a vegan restaurant and force everyone to eat meat
also im very well aware this does not represent all vegans, in fact 5-6 of my friends are vegan, and they disagree with this militant BS. I also have considered being vegan for a very long time, but i do not like the stigma attached to it, caused by people like you
Original post by ThomH97
That argument simply doesn't work on someone who doesn't have the same axiomatic belief as you that cows, pigs and chickens are equal to humans.
Their suffering is equal as they go through the same suffering. Whether you care about that suffering or not is another thing.
Its like a person who beliefs its wrong to kill Jews being told by a nazi to stop forcing their opinions onto everyone.
Original post by slotyu
How ironic that you both condemn these so called 'nasty' vegans for forcing their opinion on people but you think its perfectly ok for animals lives to be forced away. ANIMALS TO BE FORCED TO LIVE IN AWFUL CONDITIONS, ANIMALS TO SCREM IN PAIN AND FIGHT FOR THEIR LIVES, ANIMALS TO BO FORCED TO HACE THEIR THROAT CUT BECAUSE THEY ARE SEEN TO BE NOTHING MORE THAN A PRODUCT. IT PERFECTLY OK FOR PEOPLE TO FORCE THEIR OPINION ONTO THESE ANIMALS?
Do you tell people who campaign against the yulin dog festivial to stop forcing their opinion onto people?
Do you tell people who campaign against the yulin dog festivial to stop forcing their opinion onto people?
Yeh actually...
There is no issue with eating dog meat the only objectable bit is dumping dogs in boiling water and torturing them to make the meat 'taste better' or something.
Original post by CoolCavy
Yeh actually...
There is no issue with eating dog meat the only objectable bit is dumping dogs in boiling water and torturing them to make the meat 'taste better' or something.
There is no issue with eating dog meat the only objectable bit is dumping dogs in boiling water and torturing them to make the meat 'taste better' or something.
Ok take it you be against someone getting prosecuted here for electrocuting a dog/cat, cutting its throat, chopping it up into little pieces and eaten it?
Original post by ThomH97
That argument simply doesn't work on someone who doesn't have the same axiomatic belief as you that cows, pigs and chickens are equal to humans.
spot on.
Original post by slotyu
Ok take it you be against someone getting prosecuted here for electrocuting a dog/cat, cutting its throat, chopping it up into little pieces and eaten it?
at which point are they dead in this story ? im interested.
Original post by slotyu
Also whats your opinion on people who say its wrong fot people to eat dogs or cats?
Also whats your opinion on people who say its wrong fot people to eat dogs or cats?
Nearly Friendless Nick is back with his silver-tongued charm to tempt us over to the dark side.
There is nothing wrong with eating dog. Poodle, apparently, tastes a lot like chicken.
Original post by slotyu
Ok take it you be against someone getting prosecuted here for electrocuting a dog/cat, cutting its throat, chopping it up into little pieces and eaten it?
Er no that's not what I said at all
Catch you later ttingtox
Original post by slotyu
Its like a person who beliefs its wrong to kill Jews being told by a nazi to stop forcing their opinions onto everyone.
Its like a person who beliefs its wrong to kill Jews being told by a nazi to stop forcing their opinions onto everyone.
no its not lol
in my opinion, and most non vegan opinions, humans =/= cows pigs chickens etc so you cant even use that as an argument.
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