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Have your say: Anti-abortion groups banned from becoming university societies

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To be clear, I disagree with their view. It I defend the right for them to hold it.
Original post by Good bloke
You are the second person to mention hate in this thread. How is being opposition to abortion hatefu l?

I have a special card, I'm allowed . :eek:

I freely admit I don't know what such a society would find to talk about or do, I'm genuinely curious. The antiabortion lot don't really have a nice reputation. Opposing abortion is a personal belief....but it's one of those ones that people seem to get a bit weird and righteous about.....add that to how weird and righteous students can already get and it just sounds like a bad idea to me.
Original post by StriderHort
The antiabortion lot don't really have a nice reputation. .


Just like militant vegans, the hard left and the hard right. But if they behave they should not be censored. They should be debated.
Original post by Andrew97
Any society is allowed! As long as it doesn’t clash with my views...

This is silly, just forces these ideas underground.


Your first point does accurately depict the "no thinking outside the box will be tolerated" atmosphere present on a lot of English university campuses.
People really should understand that being pro-choice counts both ways.
But there are some groups that have no place or relevance in a university environment and should not be allowed access to campuses.
My mother and grandmother have been members of very fiery and uncompromising anti-abortion groups for decades, their rhetoric and tactics are very disturbing. My grandmother is an 80 year old religious fanatic who should not be allowed within 400m of a school or university campus.
Original post by StriderHort
I have a special card, I'm allowed . :eek:

I freely admit I don't know what such a society would find to talk about or do, I'm genuinely curious. The antiabortion lot don't really have a nice reputation. Opposing abortion is a personal belief....but it's one of those ones that people seem to get a bit weird and righteous about.....add that to how weird and righteous students can already get and it just sounds like a bad idea to me.


I wonder why, if you think that abortion is killing ( a perfectly valid opinion) then you might think it is very serious
Original post by Good bloke
Just like militant vegans, the hard left and the hard right. But if they behave they should not be censored. They should be debated.

Pretty much, but it's the behaving bit I'd be suspicious of, but that's me and i'm a cynic,

I've never had any real reasults debating this issue with people, I think once you picked a stance it's near impossible to shift from it, As far as I see it the mother should have final say and no ones going to convince me otherwise at this point, likewise if someone insists that a foetus is a living person i'm unlikely to be able to talk them out of that belief.
Reply 26
Avatar for Salt.
Salt.
9
Universities are supposed to encourage critical thinking and debate, no platforming completely removes this important function entirely.

Everyone is entitled to speak and open debate about controversial topics should be encouraged.

The freedom of discussion is of paramount importance, by preventing societies from forming everyone is effectively obliged to follow a student ethos which is absolutely absurd. Students should be encouraged to speak their mind. Banning these societies is completely and utterly ridiculous, the same people claim that "it's wrong to push their ideas onto others". This statement is filled with hypocrisy, the same can be said about any organisation which supports abortion or any other issue. It's a ridiculous argument and holds no validity whatsoever.

Both view points are perfectly valid, if the university does not ban pro-choice societies, then this is clearly unacceptable and absolutely no argument can justify this act.
Original post by AperfectBalance
I wonder why, if you think that abortion is killing ( a perfectly valid opinion) then you might think it is very serious

Except it isn't a valid opinion.

Killing a baby isn't the same thing as removing a fetus/embryo. They're not the same thing.
Original post by Salt.
Universities are supposed to encourage critical thinking and debate, no platforming completely removes this important function entirely.

Everyone is entitled to speak and open debate about controversial topics should be encouraged.

The freedom of discussion is of paramount importance, by preventing societies from forming everyone is effectively obliged to follow a student ethos which is absolutely absurd. Students should be encouraged to speak their mind. Banning these societies is completely and utterly ridiculous, the same people claim that "it's wrong to push their ideas onto others". This statement is filled with hypocrisy, the same can be said about any organisation which supports abortion or any other issue. It's a ridiculous argument and holds no validity whatsoever.

Both view points are perfectly valid, if the university does not ban pro-choice societies, then this is clearly unacceptable and absolutely no argument can justify this act.



I think this may be as a reaction to what some of these groups may of done.
Quick look on google
https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/local/students-hit-out-over-plan-for-hospital-anti-abortion-protest/
Original post by Andrew97
Any society is allowed! As long as it doesn’t clash with my views...

This is silly, just forces these ideas underground.

I was involved with a uni society. We used to get funding off the student union for merely existing.

So this is not merely a question of the organisation being allowed to exist, as far as I can tell, but becoming a student union group which brings with it certain privileges.
Reply 30
Avatar for Salt.
Salt.
9
Original post by adam277
I think this may be as a reaction to what some of these groups may of done.
Quick look on google
https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/local/students-hit-out-over-plan-for-hospital-anti-abortion-protest/


"As part of this, the group is inviting people to “stand and peacefully pray in the public right-of-way” at the site off Cornhill Road."

What's wrong with this? I'm not religious myself, but that's their right.

There are many protests which support abortion, they will not suffer the same consequences. They have the right to hold a protest, that is their choice to do so and they should not be prevented from doing so.

Furthermore, many members of left wing organisations (as well as societies at universities) continue to disrupt events hosted by libertarians, like Sargon of Akkad, and sometimes, they will use violence. Nothing ever happens to them. This is more than a problem with university, this is a national issue.

If some individuals are given the freedom to protest, then everyone must be given the same rights regardless of how controversial said topic is. It's one rule for some, and something completely contradictory for another.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by SHallowvale
As a side note, what exactly is an Anti-Abortion Society meant to achieve? Get together every other week and not have abortions? :confused:


Trying to galvanize mass converts to support their cause, fill up their collection coffers and ultimately lobby for almost all abortion (or all lifestyle abortions) to be deemed on par with murder- socially, ethically and legally.
My mother and grandmother are both members of firebrand anti-abortion organisations; my grandmother's group ultra religious, my mother's secular.
It seems to me that an awful lot of young people are going to be floundering when they emerge from their 'safe' environment echo chambers and discover that their new colleagues, among whom they are the juniors, have views that they have not met at university, that are not censored, from which they are not protected, and which they do not have the skills to deal with. These students' unions will have a lot to answer for. They will have conspired to make their members less competitive in the market place and less effective in work than people who have been educated in a free and uncocooned environment.
(edited 5 years ago)
Free speech is not freedom from consequences.

You can say what you like, but be prepared to be criticised, banned, laughed at, or even jailed for it, depending on how bad what you say is.

In the US, anti-abortion terrorists have killed doctors who administer abortions. link We don't need that kind of thing spreading over here.

The movement is frankly at best an anti-women's rights movement, as others have said in this thread, and at worst a borderline terrorist threat.

This isn't even a ban on being a society. Only a ban on every student being forced to subsidise hate groups such as them.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Good bloke
It seems to me that an awful lot of young people are going to be floundering when they emerge from their 'safe' environment echo chambers and discover that their new colleagues, among whom they are the juniors, have views that they have not met at university, that are not censored, from which they are not protected, and which they do not have the skills to deal with. These students' unions will have a lot to answer for. They will have conspired to make their members less competitive in the market place and less effective in work than people who have been educated in a free and uncocooned environment.


You have it the wrong way around. The old white males in the corporate world will find the world changing, and the awful views they once expressed without consequence will be held to account by the upcoming wave of youth who no longer tolerate bigotry.
Original post by Good bloke
It seems to me that an awful lot of young people are going to be floundering when they emerge from their 'safe' environment echo chambers and discover that their new colleagues, among whom they are the juniors, have views that they have not met at university, that are not censored, from which they are not protected, and which they do not have the skills to deal with. These students' unions will have a lot to answer for. They will have conspired to make their members less competitive in the market place and less effective in work than people who have been educated in a free and uncocooned environment.

Where is the connection between allowing societies with alternative opinions and developing the skills needed to deal with alternative opinions?

Assuming these societies were to be allowed, there is absolutely nothing which should say people who are against them should ever have to engage with them.

You're also making the pretty bold assumption that a lot of students live in perfect echo chambers and never face criticism, counter-opinion, etc.
im pro-choice and also pro-free speech, as everyone should be (ref. to pro-free speech). Plus what's life without a little debate? People can't develop if they never step outside their comfort zone and hear what others have to say...
Original post by AngeryPenguin
You have it the wrong way around. The old white males in the corporate world will find the world changing, and the awful views they once expressed without consequence will be held to account by the upcoming wave of youth who no longer tolerate bigotry.

Echo chambers and safe spaces aren't exclusively a left wing or SJW phenomenon.
Original post by AngeryPenguin
You have it the wrong way around. The old white males in the corporate world will find the world changing, and the awful views they once expressed without consequence will be held to account by the upcoming wave of youth who no longer tolerate bigotry.


Ah! What about the old white females? And the old yellow males? The young marxists will have to survive long enough to get into a position where they can have a revolution. Can you stand the heat for long enough?
Original post by AngeryPenguin
You have it the wrong way around. The old white males in the corporate world will find the world changing, and the awful views they once expressed without consequence will be held to account by the upcoming wave of youth who no longer tolerate bigotry.

You have a worrying obsession with white men.

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