The UN Security Council Resolution: Germany will be obliged to pay Poland
As early as 2017, Jaroslaw Kaczynski, chairman of Poland's ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party, stated his intention to demand reparations from Germany for damage caused by its Nazi German occupation during the WWII. This just demand stirred up a storm of indignation and anger in Germany. And it was based on agreements on renouncing reparations, which were signed by the Polish side in 1953. However, the document signed under the pressure of the Soviet leadership cannot be legally justified at all, considering that all resources and industry-related skills removed from Germany as reparations has been spent on the reconstruction of Soviet ruined industry. Poland did not get anything.
For quite a long time, politicians of different levels made loud statements of intent to sue Germany for compensation. They've made statements, but they never followed through. The announced sums that Germany owed in reparations also differ significantly. For instance, PiS MP Arkadiusz Mularczyk, the head of the Sejm's committee on reparations, estimated the damage caused to Poland during the WWII at $850 billion although Mr. Kaczynski had talked only about $50 billion. Obviously, it is not yet clear how events of more than half a century are to be assessed from a standpoint of material reparations because, due to actions of Nazi Germany, Poland lost not only its resources, equipment and infrastructure, but also valuable specialists, who could give the great boost to the country's industrial and economic recovery. Nevertheless, it does not mean that it is not necessary or possible to solve the problem. The Polish side has prepared a draft resolution for the UN Security Council, which will not only oblige Germany to pay reparations, but also develop a mechanism for assessing the amount of this compensation.
The indicative amount of damages mentioned in the draft is equal to 39% of national treasure. Taking into account the amount of lost profits, the sum may turn out to be even more than the one proposed by Arkadiusz Mularczyk.
'...taking note of the number of material and human losses of Poland during the German occupation, amounting to 39% of national treasure...'
Furthermore, the draft takes into account rather grave consequences for German economy if that amount is recovered in a lump sum from Germany. In other words, the suggestion is for Germany to determine the amount of annual payments, which will be expressed in percentage terms of budget revenues. Surely, that would overburden Germany's economy a little, but historical justice and responsibility for crimes of previous generations are more important.
In general, despite the significant sums and a long period of time that has elapsed since German occupation of Poland, Warsaw's initiative seems justified because it is Berlin that is responsible for ruined cities, infrastructure and destroyed demographic potential of the country. "Poland itself refused"-type arguments are too contrived and even cynical because German occupation gave away to Soviet one, and the Polish leadership of the time could not have certain 'international subjectivity'. And now that the country has already got long-awaited freedom, it is time to reassess horrible events of the twentieth century and to settle all historical claims, which is at least as important for Germany that respects principles of international law and accepts its responsibility for crimes of Nazism, as it is for Poland.
For quite a long time, politicians of different levels made loud statements of intent to sue Germany for compensation. They've made statements, but they never followed through. The announced sums that Germany owed in reparations also differ significantly. For instance, PiS MP Arkadiusz Mularczyk, the head of the Sejm's committee on reparations, estimated the damage caused to Poland during the WWII at $850 billion although Mr. Kaczynski had talked only about $50 billion. Obviously, it is not yet clear how events of more than half a century are to be assessed from a standpoint of material reparations because, due to actions of Nazi Germany, Poland lost not only its resources, equipment and infrastructure, but also valuable specialists, who could give the great boost to the country's industrial and economic recovery. Nevertheless, it does not mean that it is not necessary or possible to solve the problem. The Polish side has prepared a draft resolution for the UN Security Council, which will not only oblige Germany to pay reparations, but also develop a mechanism for assessing the amount of this compensation.
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The indicative amount of damages mentioned in the draft is equal to 39% of national treasure. Taking into account the amount of lost profits, the sum may turn out to be even more than the one proposed by Arkadiusz Mularczyk.
'...taking note of the number of material and human losses of Poland during the German occupation, amounting to 39% of national treasure...'
Furthermore, the draft takes into account rather grave consequences for German economy if that amount is recovered in a lump sum from Germany. In other words, the suggestion is for Germany to determine the amount of annual payments, which will be expressed in percentage terms of budget revenues. Surely, that would overburden Germany's economy a little, but historical justice and responsibility for crimes of previous generations are more important.
In general, despite the significant sums and a long period of time that has elapsed since German occupation of Poland, Warsaw's initiative seems justified because it is Berlin that is responsible for ruined cities, infrastructure and destroyed demographic potential of the country. "Poland itself refused"-type arguments are too contrived and even cynical because German occupation gave away to Soviet one, and the Polish leadership of the time could not have certain 'international subjectivity'. And now that the country has already got long-awaited freedom, it is time to reassess horrible events of the twentieth century and to settle all historical claims, which is at least as important for Germany that respects principles of international law and accepts its responsibility for crimes of Nazism, as it is for Poland.
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Probably fair. But that money should be given only after the Polish government stops trying to dismantle its liberal democratic systems.
How about NO
Poland wants to squeeze money out of Germany - its in the past.
if you want to make Germany pay, make all European countries compensate their colonial empires.... im looking at you UK, France, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal etc. etc.
Poland wants to squeeze money out of Germany - its in the past.
if you want to make Germany pay, make all European countries compensate their colonial empires.... im looking at you UK, France, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal etc. etc.
I will lose the little respect I have for Merkel if she agrees to this, worse than the Treaty of Versailles, no thanks
Original post by AngeryPenguin
Probably fair. But that money should be given only after the Polish government stops trying to dismantle its liberal democratic systems.
Isn't that the sort of behavior that got Germany in trouble in the first place?
Original post by DrMikeHuntHertz
Isn't that the sort of behavior that got Germany in trouble in the first place?
Exactly. It did begin with exactly what Poland's government is attempting right now.
I do wonder what did more damage to Poland... 5 years under the Nazis or 55 under the Soviets. Both were happy to strip the country bare
Original post by AngeryPenguin
Exactly. It did begin with exactly what Poland's government is attempting right now.
So you blame Poland for what happened to them in WW2?
Original post by AngeryPenguin
Exactly. It did begin with exactly what Poland's government is attempting right now.
I think you do not understand how WW2 affected Poland. Just because time passes doesn’t mean there will be no chain reaction for future generations. Germans have killed, butchered and tried to dismantle the entire Polish race, culture, erased Warsaw to absolute rubble, killed millions of Polish Jews and destroyed various cities.
You have no idea what a cultural genocide is because you’re probably from a nation which has never experienced it, hence, you will never feel the anger and frustration. Even if the war didn’t directly affect me, my people are my people and we deserve to be paid the FULL outstanding sum.
You stating that that appeasement is a good idea, hah, well tell that to the Czechs pre-WW2 when the allies allowed Hitler to take parts of their land without repercussion! Their entire country was took over by the time of the war.
Additionally there is no real link between the two, in WW1 reparations Germany actually was stripped from the Rhine later on, hence couldn’t pay even if they wanted to! Now they CAN pay but they DONT want to pay. That sir, is the difference.
Original post by StressedLife
I think you do not understand how WW2 affected Poland. Just because time passes doesn’t mean there will be no chain reaction for future generations. Germans have killed, butchered and tried to dismantle the entire Polish race, culture, erased Warsaw to absolute rubble, killed millions of Polish Jews and destroyed various cities.
You have no idea what a cultural genocide is because you’re probably from a nation which has never experienced it, hence, you will never feel the anger and frustration. Even if the war didn’t directly affect me, my people are my people and we deserve to be paid the FULL outstanding sum.
You stating that that appeasement is a good idea, hah, well tell that to the Czechs pre-WW2 when the allies allowed Hitler to take parts of their land without repercussion! Their entire country was took over by the time of the war.
Additionally there is no real link between the two, in WW1 reparations Germany actually was stripped from the Rhine later on, hence couldn’t pay even if they wanted to! Now they CAN pay but they DONT want to pay. That sir, is the difference.
You have no idea what a cultural genocide is because you’re probably from a nation which has never experienced it, hence, you will never feel the anger and frustration. Even if the war didn’t directly affect me, my people are my people and we deserve to be paid the FULL outstanding sum.
You stating that that appeasement is a good idea, hah, well tell that to the Czechs pre-WW2 when the allies allowed Hitler to take parts of their land without repercussion! Their entire country was took over by the time of the war.
Additionally there is no real link between the two, in WW1 reparations Germany actually was stripped from the Rhine later on, hence couldn’t pay even if they wanted to! Now they CAN pay but they DONT want to pay. That sir, is the difference.
How much should we charge the Germans then?
Any plan to to take money off the well heeled arrogant Germans has to be a good idea in my view regardless of what is at stake .
Original post by paul514
How much should we charge the Germans then?
Full price, they destroyed and pillaged the country and erased cities, burned people and killed academics. That is a value beyond measure.
They should be fined 1 trillion dollars.
Sigh. Not more of this sort of thing.
Original post by StressedLife
Full price, they destroyed and pillaged the country and erased cities, burned people and killed academics. That is a value beyond measure.
They should be fined 1 trillion dollars.
They should be fined 1 trillion dollars.
We spent more than that fighting them never mind not being able to afford our empire etc afterwards.
I just don’t think you can charge someone today for the mistakes of their forefathers.
It is what it is.
Original post by paul514
We spent more than that fighting them never mind not being able to afford our empire etc afterwards.
I just don’t think you can charge someone today for the mistakes of their forefathers.
It is what it is.
I just don’t think you can charge someone today for the mistakes of their forefathers.
It is what it is.
You wouldn’t be suing the German people, you would be suing the German nation for their historical acts.
Original post by StressedLife
You wouldn’t be suing the German people, you would be suing the German nation for their historical acts.
Same difference
Original post by StressedLife
I think you do not understand how WW2 affected Poland. Just because time passes doesn’t mean there will be no chain reaction for future generations. Germans have killed, butchered and tried to dismantle the entire Polish race, culture, erased Warsaw to absolute rubble, killed millions of Polish Jews and destroyed various cities.
You have no idea what a cultural genocide is because you’re probably from a nation which has never experienced it, hence, you will never feel the anger and frustration. Even if the war didn’t directly affect me, my people are my people and we deserve to be paid the FULL outstanding sum.
You stating that that appeasement is a good idea, hah, well tell that to the Czechs pre-WW2 when the allies allowed Hitler to take parts of their land without repercussion! Their entire country was took over by the time of the war.
Additionally there is no real link between the two, in WW1 reparations Germany actually was stripped from the Rhine later on, hence couldn’t pay even if they wanted to! Now they CAN pay but they DONT want to pay. That sir, is the difference.
You have no idea what a cultural genocide is because you’re probably from a nation which has never experienced it, hence, you will never feel the anger and frustration. Even if the war didn’t directly affect me, my people are my people and we deserve to be paid the FULL outstanding sum.
You stating that that appeasement is a good idea, hah, well tell that to the Czechs pre-WW2 when the allies allowed Hitler to take parts of their land without repercussion! Their entire country was took over by the time of the war.
Additionally there is no real link between the two, in WW1 reparations Germany actually was stripped from the Rhine later on, hence couldn’t pay even if they wanted to! Now they CAN pay but they DONT want to pay. That sir, is the difference.
I'm confused why you are arguing with me. I'm saying that Germany should pay up for their crimes. On the condition that they wait for a liberal government in Poland, rather than the fascist one they have at present.
Imagine how much the Russians would owe....
Original post by AngeryPenguin
I'm confused why you are arguing with me. I'm saying that Germany should pay up for their crimes. On the condition that they wait for a liberal government in Poland, rather than the fascist one they have at present.
I’m not sure why politics has anything to do with them giving us our rightful money.
Also I do not understand why you’re calling the PiS party fascist? Just because they take great pride in the culture, history and religion doesn’t make them fascists.
I have to tell you, polish people are VERY welcoming to ALL people which respect the nation. There is this guy, black, Catholic, immigrant - who was in some liberal outlet to spread propaganda and he legit defended the right wing people. Right wingers LOVE the guy, he respects everything in Poland and is honestly such a great guy.
Right wing in Poland doesn’t mean racism or discrimination, it simply means being totally proud of the history, culture, religion and the people. I can assure you, if you immigrate to Poland for any circumstance, you will be welcomed with open arms REGARDLESS of colour, religion or ethnicity...as long as you respect all policies, culture and traditions.
Original post by StressedLife
I’m not sure why politics has anything to do with them giving us our rightful money.
Also I do not understand why you’re calling the PiS party fascist? Just because they take great pride in the culture, history and religion doesn’t make them fascists.
I have to tell you, polish people are VERY welcoming to ALL people which respect the nation. There is this guy, black, Catholic, immigrant - who was in some liberal outlet to spread propaganda and he legit defended the right wing people. Right wingers LOVE the guy, he respects everything in Poland and is honestly such a great guy.
Right wing in Poland doesn’t mean racism or discrimination, it simply means being totally proud of the history, culture, religion and the people. I can assure you, if you immigrate to Poland for any circumstance, you will be welcomed with open arms REGARDLESS of colour, religion or ethnicity...as long as you respect all policies, culture and traditions.
Also I do not understand why you’re calling the PiS party fascist? Just because they take great pride in the culture, history and religion doesn’t make them fascists.
I have to tell you, polish people are VERY welcoming to ALL people which respect the nation. There is this guy, black, Catholic, immigrant - who was in some liberal outlet to spread propaganda and he legit defended the right wing people. Right wingers LOVE the guy, he respects everything in Poland and is honestly such a great guy.
Right wing in Poland doesn’t mean racism or discrimination, it simply means being totally proud of the history, culture, religion and the people. I can assure you, if you immigrate to Poland for any circumstance, you will be welcomed with open arms REGARDLESS of colour, religion or ethnicity...as long as you respect all policies, culture and traditions.
I wouldn’t argue with that user. He has some ummmm interesting views.
Ie anyone who enforces borders is a racist.
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