The Student Room Group

Dropping out of Medicine for Clinical Psychology and/or Neuroscience

Hi there,

Bit of an odd one this. I'm a first year medic, but a graduate, starting the course at 30 after years working in Global Public Health, Education, and Commerce. I applied to medicine wanting a change. I am loving the course, but I find myself drawn in particular to aspects of brain function and neurophysiology.

Given my age and the fact that I run a couple of businesses on the side, I'd quite like to shorten the 5 years to get stuck into working again. At the moment I'm finding it quite easy to balance business and education - the younger students are really helping fill my gaps in biochemistry due to my lack of A levels in Biology or Chemistry, although I'm aware that won't always be the case as the degree ramps up.

Are there other paths where I would get to go in depth into the neurophysiology but also with a clinical focus so I'd get to work directly with patients in a therapeutic perspective? Medicine is fascinating, but I fear during my 5 years I'll probably get bored of Autoimmune Bowel Diseases.

Scroll to see replies

Original post by Medicalstoat
Hi there,

Bit of an odd one this. I'm a first year medic, but a graduate, starting the course at 30 after years working in Global Public Health, Education, and Commerce. I applied to medicine wanting a change. I am loving the course, but I find myself drawn in particular to aspects of brain function and neurophysiology.

Given my age and the fact that I run a couple of businesses on the side, I'd quite like to shorten the 5 years to get stuck into working again. At the moment I'm finding it quite easy to balance business and education - the younger students are really helping fill my gaps in biochemistry due to my lack of A levels in Biology or Chemistry, although I'm aware that won't always be the case as the degree ramps up.

Are there other paths where I would get to go in depth into the neurophysiology but also with a clinical focus so I'd get to work directly with patients in a therapeutic perspective? Medicine is fascinating, but I fear during my 5 years I'll probably get bored of Autoimmune Bowel Diseases.


Ah hi I am a graduate medic too; I also run my own business on the side funnily enough. What course are you on?
Original post by Ahmad*
Ah hi I am a graduate medic too; I also run my own business on the side funnily enough. What course are you on?

MBBS at King's, yourself?
I'm aware of clinical neurophysiology being a speciality in its own right. Its rather niche and entry is only at ST3 which means four years+ of general medicine post graduation I'm afraid. (I have heard that it gets fun during clinicals with less emphasis on biochem depending on which uni you're at) You're at an ideal stage to change direction however. It gets more difficult the further up you are in the year as time and money has most likely been invested.

Getting into Neuroscience via BSc is difficult, as you normally require an MSc and most likely a PhD. Vacancies are also scarce.


Take everything I said with a pinch of salt as I'm a mature prospective!
Imperial Graduate Entry course. Do you think it's a bit premature to leave the course and jump to something else? Coming in late into medicine, I think my sense has always been to really sort of make the most of the opportunity, because I think at the end of Medicine there are so many amazing opportunities.
Potentially, but I don't want to waste 5 years of my time if it's not something I'm going to be interested in in the long run. It would be different if I could have done 4 years but I don't have any bio or chem background since GCSE so I couldn't go for Graduate Entry. Plus, whilst I'm in medical school it's a bit challenging to keep a balance. The studies mean I can only really dedicate maximum 40 hours a week to my businesses and stay on with the course load (20 hours a week each) and whilst I have great staff in place, it means they are probably not growing at the rate I would like, and that time will probably decrease in later years. I'm sure you're having the same problem? I'd like to be able to find something where I could dedicate more time to them.

The other thing is, I'm not sure that I'd really get what I want, even out of Psychiatry or Neurology. Not only do you not go in depth into the science, you're also dealing primarily with medicating patients rather than talking therapies.

This is why I started looking at part time psychotherapy courses etc. but I'm not sure they'd really give me the science that I like behind the whole thing. Also, as you say, whilst I'm pretty clear what I want to do, this may change and medicine gives so many other clinical options.

Really is a dilemma.
Original post by Gastroepiploic
I'm aware of clinical neurophysiology being a speciality in its own right. Its rather niche and entry is only at ST3 which means four years+ of general medicine post graduation I'm afraid. (I have heard that it gets fun during clinicals with less emphasis on biochem depending on which uni you're at) You're at an ideal stage to change direction however. It gets more difficult the further up you are in the year as time and money has most likely been invested.

Getting into Neuroscience via BSc is difficult, as you normally require an MSc and most likely a PhD. Vacancies are also scarce.


Take everything I said with a pinch of salt as I'm a mature prospective!


Thanks, this is useful - I think I need to look further into it.
Have you thought about doing an intercalated course that specialises in your area of interest? The only thing is most of them require you to have already completed 3 years of your med degree and spaces are very sparce but its worth a look.
Original post by mediclyfe
Have you thought about doing an intercalated course that specialises in your area of interest? The only thing is most of them require you to have already completed 3 years of your med degree and spaces are very sparce but its worth a look.

It's an option. At my age and with the cost of the course, it's certainly not ideal especially if it won't lead anywhere in terms of career progresion, but I'd consider it.
When you say, "go into neuroscience", what do you mean? Neuroscience is an academic discipline, not a job sector. If you want to go into academia, you would need to get a PhD (and possibly a masters along the way). You can do a PhD in neuroscience after a medical degree, but neither is exactly "being in work". There are some NHS BMS type roles in clinical neurophysiology (as an allied heath profession, rather than medical specialty) I believe, but these would probably expect an appropriate accredited undergraduate course and then structured training scheme.

Clinical psychology is another thing altogether, but my understanding is normally you need a BPS accredited undergraduate course, plus a masters and/or DClinPsych afterwards, or to go into a structured training scheme (maybe both?). Either way, it's unlikely to be much different in terms of experiences than medicine -> foundation -> specialty training except in the subject specific content. You're still going to need to do a lot of academic work and academic style training while working (and quite possibly some rather boring generalist work before you specialise more).

I think in both cases, you aren't really getting what you want from it; you're going to be going from 3-4 years remaining of your MBBS (2-3 of which will be clinical and possibly more engaging for you), to a 3-4 year BA/BSc + MSc/MA, or an MSci undergrad masters course, and/or a PhD or clinical doctorate (3-4 years again), plus some kind of structured training period (like you would have after graduating from medicine, although quite possibly more competitive to get into and with lower pay...). It's probably going to take a similar period of time to qualify in either of those non-medical areas as in a medical analogue of those (e.g. neurology, clinical neurophysiology, psychiatry - the latter probably being the shortest option).

might have some thoughts, since neuroscience is sort of an academic parallel to neurology in some respects (I think?). However I would note, I think ecolier has noted that they're changing the training for physicianly specialties to have a 3 year post foundation core training period, from 2, before higher specialty training. This might be even less appealing on the medicine front, although as above I don't think in terms of time frames it's much different than the alternatives realistically.
To get into clinical psychology, you would need to do a BPS accredited masters course in psychology that covers all the areas highlighted by the BPS (e.g. social psych, developmental psych, biological psych). After this you must complete the 3 year phd in DClinPsych, which is highly highly competitive (maybe even more so that medicine in terms of applicants to places).

My first degree is in psychology and honestly it did not contain that much neuroscience, only that which is relevant to psychology as a subject. Similarly in clinical psychology, there is less emphasis on neuroscience unless you decide to complete a masters post phd and most don’t. Clinical psychologists deal mostly with cognitive and behavioural methods of alleviating mental health issues in their patients - this is quite different from neuroscience. If you were interested in clinical psychology/neuroscience it may be worth remaining in medical training and specialising in neurology or psychiatry if you’d like a patient-facing role in mental health/neuro.
side note - i’m a psych grad looking more at doing graduate medicine.
Reply 11
I just want to add that there is the option of specialising in neuropsychology following completing the clinical psychology doctorate. My plan is to specialise in neuropsychology, and therefore work with patients with neurological disorders and trauma. However, this is yet another year or two on top of a BSc and DClinPsy.

(I’m a psychology undergrad but my interest is with neuroscience)
Thank you all.



Original post by artful_lounger

I think in both cases, you aren't really getting what you want from it; you're going to be going from 3-4 years remaining of your MBBS (2-3 of which will be clinical and possibly more engaging for you), to a 3-4 year BA/BSc + MSc/MA, or an MSci undergrad masters course, and/or a PhD or clinical doctorate (3-4 years again), plus some kind of structured training period (like you would have after graduating from medicine, although quite possibly more competitive to get into and with lower pay...).




It would be slightly shorter for me as there are conversion courses. but I see your point - it doesn't save a lot of time and also the medical field certainly has more to offer in terms of variety.




I mean christ, it's a long slog - but I suppose it's what you expect - at least as artful points out there's more clinical contact in MBBS. I think psychiatry would interest me more than neurology, was there a reason you chose it?

Original post by ella_mai

My first degree is in psychology and honestly it did not contain that much neuroscience, only that which is relevant to psychology as a subject. Similarly in clinical psychology, there is less emphasis on neuroscience unless you decide to complete a masters post phd and most don’t. Clinical psychologists deal mostly with cognitive and behavioural methods of alleviating mental health issues in their patients - this is quite different from neuroscience.

I did not realise that they would be so separate - I think you all might be right. I should stick with it. Kind of what I thought anyway, I just wanted to see what was out there. Thank you all so much!
How much of the 5 year MBBS is actually based around neuro/psych?
Vl

Original post by Medicalstoat
Thanks, this is useful - I think I need to look further into it.

No worries. Also research around medical psychotherapy if that floats your boat. Its a subspecialty of psychiatry which goes in more depth and breadth than most undergraduate courses.
(edited 5 years ago)
Reply 15
Original post by Medicalstoat
Potentially, but I don't want to waste 5 years of my time if it's not something I'm going to be interested in in the long run. It would be different if I could have done 4 years but I don't have any bio or chem background since GCSE so I couldn't go for Graduate Entry. Plus, whilst I'm in medical school it's a bit challenging to keep a balance. The studies mean I can only really dedicate maximum 40 hours a week to my businesses and stay on with the course load (20 hours a week each) and whilst I have great staff in place, it means they are probably not growing at the rate I would like, and that time will probably decrease in later years. I'm sure you're having the same problem? I'd like to be able to find something where I could dedicate more time to them.

The other thing is, I'm not sure that I'd really get what I want, even out of Psychiatry or Neurology. Not only do you not go in depth into the science, you're also dealing primarily with medicating patients rather than talking therapies.

This is why I started looking at part time psychotherapy courses etc. but I'm not sure they'd really give me the science that I like behind the whole thing. Also, as you say, whilst I'm pretty clear what I want to do, this may change and medicine gives so many other clinical options.

Really is a dilemma.

I'm intrigued as to how you got in to do the undergraduate course at King's without A levels in Biology or Chemistry. I'd also like to point out that you could have applied to both Warwick and SGUL for the 4 year graduate entry course without these A levels, and they accept any degree subject.
Original post by Gastroepiploic
Vl


No worries. Also research around medical psychotherapy if that floats your boat. Its a subspecialty of psychiatry which goes in more depth and breadth than most undergraduate courses.

Thanks. I'm aware of medical psychotherapy - talking about a long haul though... Anyway have to say, I love the name - it's my favourite artery!
From what I can see there's quite a bit in my curriculum, and King's seem to look a lot at psychological factors underlying or resulting from physical issues, but it's difficult to know.
Original post by NHSFan
I'm intrigued as to how you got in to do the undergraduate course at King's without A levels in Biology or Chemistry. I'd also like to point out that you could have applied to both Warwick and SGUL for the 4 year graduate entry course without these A levels, and they accept any degree subject.

I applied for GPEP at King's. Didn't get in, they bumped me down to MBBS. This was a couple of years ago, I deferred then interrupted for 2 whilst I focused on other career paths (when I applied for the graduate entry it was contingent on me getting loans, I would have struggled to self fund at that point).

I can't remember why but at the time King's was the only place that would have taken me. May have had something to do with the fact that I couldn't take the GAMSAT that year, I had a 2:2 in my undergraduate degree, and I got both my Masters degrees in America, but honestly I can't remember. It was the only place I applied, and honestly I was surprised to get in too.
Yeah - I find it all fascinating to be honest. I'll stick with it and report back when I'm an F1 at 35 ...

Quick Reply