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Why bother going to a university outside top 30 UK rank?

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This doesn't make any sense whatsoever..

Can you please tell me how you've come to this conclusion when you have literally no idea the career paths and jobs that each of those graduates will go on to?

Should have said median graduate and I'm basing this off the Longitudinal Education Outcomes data.

Edit:

Earnings five years after graduation - 2008/09 cohort:

Brighton Computer Science: 30,900
Warwick Psychology: 27,900
Durham English: 28,400

Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/graduate-outcomes-for-all-subjects-by-university

(edited 5 years ago)

Reply 41

The RAR

Welcome to the 21th century, where society is based on elitism.
Oxbridge is a special case, a top uni in general does not = instant high paying job. It depends on the individual themselves rather than the uni they graduated from, a first from a lower rank will always look better than a 2.1 from a Russel Group uni (Excluding Oxbridge), it shows you have more knowledge in your field and will be more of a help to your employers. High academia does not mean like others said that employers also have to reward you, they will just choose whoever they see more fit, whether it be from a low or top ranked uni.

Reply 42

ArnoldK

So they're basically trying to make out that anyone who didn't go to a "top-tier uni" is an idiot.

Simply by knowing one thing about a person.

I think myself, and any decent potential employer, realises to not let one thing about a person define them!!

Reply 43

Ninomi

I wanted to stay at home, and so only had 3 universities to choose from (including Cambridge - which wasn’t an option), and chose the university that had the most interesting modules.

I used to believe it was top 20 or nothing, but that’s really not the case.

Reply 44

Sammylou40

That may be your choice
Allow others to choose for themselves
And mocking makes you no better than the op

Reply 45

username738914

Original post by BasicMistake

Should have said median graduate and I'm basing this off the Longitudinal Education Outcomes data.

Ok.. so again, how is that helpful? You're basing your counterpoint on the median salaries of the random career choices of folks that graduated at some point in the past.

An assortment of people doing Psychology or English then choosing a variety of career paths based on their own preferences doesn't tell you squat about any one individual's potential after pursuing a subject. For all you know, those folks couldn't care less about working in big business so they chose teaching or they chose to work in non-profits or they chose to work on a freelance basis doing something creative.

The same can be said for CompScis but they are far, far more herd-like and all tend to funnel themselves into software jobs or lame stuff in IT.

Apologies for lashing out but I honestly think people need to use their critical thinking skills more when talking about grad destinations and median salaries. Also unis should make this stuff more clear so that BS statements like "I expect to earn £X as an English grad" or "History grads from Y uni only earn X" can stop being uttered. A breakdown of %age of grads in a given job function/industry and average pay attained for those would be way more useful. Also a breakdown of those in further education + a list of where.

(edited 5 years ago)

Reply 46

BasicMistake

The unemployment comment is a troll but I genuinely think this guy is so deluded and/or insecure that he believes this stuff.

Reply 47

Notoriety

If you wanna be an ST, let the appropriate SL know. Until then ...

And there are plenty of people who do let their education define them, so they do possess some of these myopic and foolish viewpoints. Not obvious troll, just very likely.

Reply 48

Mr Optimist

This has to be one of the silliest threads I have come across. I hope for your sake, you're just a troll and not serious.

I did a pharmacy degree at university and I had a choice between studying at Manchester University and another university which is ranked much lower, I ended up going to the latter because I simply preferred the environment of that university better. Right now, I am probably earning more than the vast majority of people that went to "top tier" universities. And in the next few years, given the fact I will be having a few businesses, my salary will sky rocket further. Therefore, as you can see, it did not matter what university I went to. If you're competent, you will do well regardless.

This tier system is misleading. in the vast majority of cases, it really does not matter what university you go to if you're already someone who is competent. This is especially true if you're doing a vocational degree.

Reply 49

That'sGreat

I don’t know why people are complaining, university out of top 30 is a waste of t8me really, you’d be much better off with an apprenticeship.

Though an exception is made for a uni out of the top 30 which is top in its field ie. real estate management

Reply 50

ArnoldK

Probably 99% of jobs only require a certain level of academic intelligience. After that it's all about the person and your skills.

There's been studies which show that socioeconomic background and ethnicity are key factors when looking at graduaes potential earnings, so not simply academic perfermance at all.

Reply 51

Sammylou40

Burger flipping is a generalisation. From your earlier threads worrying about keeping up with younger applicants

Reply 52

BasicMistake

Original post by Princepieman

Ok.. so again, how is that helpful? You're basing your counterpoint on the median salaries of the random career choices of folks that graduated at some point in the past.

An assortment of people doing Psychology or English then choosing a variety of career paths based on their own preferences doesn't tell you squat about any one individual's potential after pursuing a subject. For all you know, those folks couldn't care less about working in big business so they chose teaching or they chose to work in non-profits or they chose to work on a freelance basis doing something creative.

The same can be said for CompScis but they are far, far more herd-like and all tend to funnel themselves into software jobs or lame stuff in IT.

Apologies for lashing out but people I honestly think people need to use their critical thinking skills more when talking about grad destinations and median salaries. Also unis should make this stuff more clear so that BS statements like "I expect to earn £X as an English grad" or "History grads from Y uni only earn X" can stop being uttered.

I wasn't claiming anything beyond the idea that this top <multiple of ten> discussion is largely pointless. I wasn't arguing that doing Computer Science at Brighton is better than doing English at Durham, not that that choice is likely anyway. I put those numbers up there to address OP's claim that going to a uni outside the top 30 is worthless. If a degree at Brighton is so useless then aren't CompScis there earning £20k five years after graduating?

And as you said, it could be the case that inherent personality is the explanatory variable that leads to both subject choice and employment outcomes. In which case, the argument that university prestige or ranking is significant beyond the very top falls apart.

Reply 53

Notoriety

Aye, pal. Don't think I said the ST as a diss; being a CA or ST is not something I respect in the least, as they let in too many sub-par users. I was pointing out that you have not been given the responsibility, so don't second-guess people who have.

Reply 54

BasicMistake

That's not your argument. You're saying there's no point in going to a uni below the top 30. If you're right then a CompSci grad from Brighton should be no better off than someone leaving school and going straight into employment.

Reply 55

Pugglet

My course wasn’t offered at some unis so I’m happy with my “low ranking” uni

Reply 56

bones-mccoy

So do most people who want to go into roles which require specialist knowledge or a high level of training. You can't get into most of those fields without a Masters degree at least these days, the competition is simply too high.

Reply 57

Notoriety

Original post by bones-mccoy

Lol, cos having a master's degree is difficult.

Reply 58

bones-mccoy

Original post by Notoriety

Lol, cos having a master's degree is difficult.

It is for some. Years ago just having a first degree was enough to make you stand out from the crowd but now everyone has a first degree plus a Level 7 qualification or higher.

Reply 59

kkboyk

Depends on what you consider as top 30 (which also varies greatly from course to course), as well as other factors. Every uni has its own strength. For some courses (take Maths for example), the course structure are almost identical to most of RG uni, though RG uni tend to get slightly into more depth but at the end of the degree you would have learnt almost the exact same thing. Most graduate employers do not take your university institution into consideration (e.g. big 4 accounting firms) and their application process is mostly strength based, so it seems pointless to just focus on top 30 for a career. There are numerous other factors such as bursaries and scholarship (which a lot of unis past the top 30 are generous to give), location (some do not want to leave their current location or do not want to travel), family reasons.

Some unis outside the top 30 have far more industrial links and opportunities than a select others within the top 30 for specific courses, take engineering at Heriot-Watt and Swansea for example. Both unis have a more practical course which prepares them very well for industrial jobs (hence why their employment rate is very high), as well as useful career modules (Swansea offers their engineering students to go to Tata Steels a few times a week to gain practical experience, as well as reimburse them... though space is very limited).