The 'Brexit Meaningful Vote' Thread - May loses 432-202

So it's January 15th, which means that the Meaningful Vote is finally upon us after it's delay from Mid-December.

As I'm sure everyone is aware, Theresa May is widely expected to lose this vote, triggering yet more uncertainty for the nation. There's even talk of her losing by a record margin for a Government of the UK. Should she lose by at least 167 votes or more, then she'll have managed that feat.

Thereafter, as mandated by previous votes, Theresa May will have 3 days to come up with 'Plan B', and bring that to the house. As far as what that entails, no one knows. And it does seem like neither does the public. Sir John Curtice penned a great article looking at the various options.

Most striking is the following graph showing just how divided we've become. Which option would you go for?

So with that said, it's on to the Meaningful Vote, to see what unfolds.

Resources

You can watch on ParliamentTV

You can also watch on BBC Parliament

An explanation on the Meaningful Vote, by Liam Laurence Smyth - the Clerk of Legislation in the House of Commons

House of Commons Twitter for rolling updates

BBC live updates

The debate is ongoing, voting expected at 7pm!

Any questions, feel free to ask :smile:

(edited 5 years ago)

Reply 1

Charles III

21

I'm a solid don't know, also, in.

I don't really want another general election or a referendum to be honest. I'm kind of stuck.

Reply 2

Snufkin

Universities Forum Helper

21

Ideally, Parliament should assert control and pass a bill to make us stay in the EU or extend Article 50 and negotiate a soft Brexit. Failing that.... we must have a second referendum on the deal.

STOP BREXIT

Reply 3

adam277

16

Original post by Snufkin

Ideally, Parliament should assert control and pass a bill to make us stay in the EU or extend Article 50 and negotiate a soft Brexit. Failing that.... we must have a second referendum on the deal.

STOP BREXIT

We have to honour the first referendum.
Why can't people understand this?
Let's say we just have another referendum it will literally just piss off so many people and will result in brexit again.
Fudge all these people who only like democracy when it suits them.

Reply 4

mojojojo101

17

Re-negotiating is a pipe dream. Give up. Its not going to happen.

My preference is for there to be a general election fought in incredibly bad spirit, with the Tories unable to pick themselves a leader and the Labour party more interested in ditching theirs than winning the actual election. The house ends up hugely spit, nothing resembling a workable government forms and the last 3 years of bad blood erupts into complete and utter chaos, total breakdown of the norm and no-deal Brexit just happens in the background because everyone was so busy tearing lumps out of each other they all forgot why they were doing it.

Reply 5

adam277

16

Original post by mojojojo101

Re-negotiating is a pipe dream. Give up. Its not going to happen.

My preference is for there to be a general election fought in incredibly bad spirit, with the Tories unable to pick themselves a leader and the Labour party more interested in ditching theirs than winning the actual election. The house ends up hugely spit, nothing resembling a workable government forms and the last 3 years of bad blood erupts into complete and utter chaos, total breakdown of the norm and no-deal Brexit just happens in the background because everyone was so busy tearing lumps out of each other they all forgot why they were doing it.

Tbh that's how British politics has always been during non war-time probably going back like 300 years.
At the very least it's always an amusing read.

Reply 6

The RAR

21

I thought the vote was on the 14th? Well, we all know what the result will be.....

Reply 7

Burton Bridge

15

Original post by Snufkin

Ideally, Parliament should assert control and pass a bill to make us stay in the EU or extend Article 50 and negotiate a soft Brexit. Failing that.... we must have a second referendum on the deal.

STOP BREXIT

It's opinions like this that make me dispair it really is. Please explain to me why this is ideal?

Reply 8

username1148663

21

Original post by Snufkin

Hello, I’m not a democrat, I want my own way.

STOP BREXIT

Fixed for you.

Reply 9

Burton Bridge

15

Original post by paul514

Fixed for you.

Not even for him mate, it's the worst possible outcome. I voted leave but I'd sooner remain than get a what Snufkin proposes, a second referendum would cause unfixable damage to our democracy, would more than likely be a switch up to spilt the leave vote.

I realise the education industry is extremely pro remain, I understand why it is. I do this via looking at the evidence and trying to see others views. This is something the Elitst high and mighty remain camp may wish to do themselves if they ever wish to gain the public respect back that they think they deserve

Reply 10

Dez

20

Original post by Burton Bridge

a second referendum would cause unfixable damage to our democracy

It's not exactly in great shape to begin with.

Reply 11

Trinculo

21

May will lose.

Corbyn will mess about and not actually do anything of any susbstance other than talk about a General Election.

MPs attempt to take over Brexit will fizzle out

Some time around the end of Feb, EU will cave and we will leave with something halfway between no-deal and May's deal.

Reply 12

fallen_acorns

20

leave is fine
remain is fine

but this middle option that takes the worst of both and throws them together is not.

Reply 13

the bear

20

Brexit is like a really stinky turd which refuses to flush away ?

:emo:

Reply 14

Justvisited

19

Original post by Dez

It's not exactly in great shape to begin with.

Which just makes the poster's point all the stronger and more urgent.

Reply 15

Burton Bridge

15

Original post by Dez

It's not exactly in great shape to begin with.

So all the more reason not to break it further then isn't it?

Reply 16

Dez

20

Original post by Burton Bridge

So all the more reason not to break it further then isn't it?

I don't see what damage a second referendum would do that hasn't been done already.

Reply 17

Justvisited

19

Original post by Dez

I don't see what damage a second referendum would do that hasn't been done already.

Where do you think the damage was done previously? The expenses scandal and things like that? Surely not by the 2016 referendum, which if anything gave people hope that some of their lost confidence in the power of the vote could be restored.

Which is precisely why it's so important, politically, that that vote be seen to be honoured as far as practically possible.

Arguably, attempting to overthrow it via calling a second referendum would leave public trust in the political class in a worse condition than before the first one. Cynicism and apathy would have an absolute feeding frenzy.

Reply 18

Dez

20

Original post by Justvisited

Where do you think the damage was done previously? The expenses scandal and things like that? Surely not by the 2016 referendum, which if anything gave people hope that some of their lost confidence in the power of the vote could be restored.

Which is precisely why it's so important, politically, that that vote be seen to be honoured as far as practically possible.

Arguably, attempting to overthrow it via calling a second referendum would leave public trust in the political class in a worse condition than before the first one. Cynicism and apathy would have an absolute feeding frenzy.

Confidence in the government hangs by a thread. Parliament have been doing practically nothing but bicker with each other for the last 18 months. We've had two general elections and still no proper mandate for what sort of Brexit ought to be implemented. We are literally weeks away from the March deadline and there is still no plan, unless by some miracle May's deal actually passes today's vote. Oh and NI assembly still hasn't actually, well, assembled, and nobody seems to care enough to resolve that. I'd say things are pretty bad right now for the UK's semblance of a democracy.

A second referendum certainly has drawbacks. Mainly it'll mean yet another ridiculous charade of political campaigning, more abject lies being bandied about as fact, more foreign propaganda driving public opinion. Definitely not looking forward to any of that.

If today's vote fails though, what are the alternatives? May's plan B? Likely doesn't exist. Parliament trying to reach a new settlement? Yeah, because they've done such a great job so far. General election? That's just gonna give us another hung parliament and we'll be back to square one. No deal Brexit? So absurdly stupid it doesn't even warrant consideration.

I don't see any other viable options, really. Open to suggestions though.