Stupid leave voters on question time with their stupid analogies for "no deal"...

Leave voter analogy:

When you walk into a car dealership and don't like the car, you need to be able to walk away. You need to be able to say "no deal". This has to be on the table otherwise you end up with a bad deal.

Actual analogy:

We already owned a car. Some would describe it as a Ferrari. Others would describe it as a Ford Fiesta. However, we had a car.

Regardless of what you think of the car, we set fire to it, and now we need to buy another one.

A deal involves getting a car. No deal involves having no car at all. Have fun walking everywhere when you could have been driving.
___

Bonus leave voter comment: "The EU is scared of no deal! We need it on the table to frighten them into giving us what we want."

Reality: The EU have actually been preparing for a no deal scenario for at least a year (they've written up proposals and everything). While they obviously want a deal, they're not naive like you lot.
___

If you're fine with a no deal scenario, good for you, but don't pretend like it doesn't mean certain economic instability that will hit the pockets of the poorest first (the rich will diversify their funds abroad and come out just fine). And shame on you for advocating for it if you do.

Reply 1

Davij038

13

Your anecdotes are just as cringeworthy as the pro leave ones.

Reply 2

armouredbeast

6

Leavers are simply incapable of realising the ECONOMIC DAMAGE a no deal will cause!

Reply 3

JustOneMoreThing

21

Original post by armouredbeast

Leavers are simply incapable of realising the ECONOMIC DAMAGE a no deal will cause!

!!!!!! Ahhhhhhh

!!!!!!!!!!

Reply 4

Davij038

13

Original post by armouredbeast

Leavers are simply incapable of realising the ECONOMIC DAMAGE a no deal will cause!

I think most do, they’re just not permitted to make the real case for Brexit which would include policies deemed ‘politically incorrect’

Reply 5

ColinDent

14

Original post by armouredbeast

Leavers are simply incapable of realising the ECONOMIC DAMAGE a no deal will cause!

Or we do not agree with that statement.

Reply 6

Daigan

13

I hope we get a no-deal brexit. The people most disadvantaged by that would be be those who voted to leave, and I can't wait to laugh at their plight. I'll be okay. I work in an industry that will be pretty much immune to brexit.

Reply 7

Andrew97

Entertainment Forum Helper, Debate & Current Affairs Helper

20

Original post by Daigan

I hope we get a no-deal brexit. The people most disadvantaged by that would be be those who voted to leave, and I can't wait to laugh at their plight. I'll be okay. I work in an industry that will be pretty much immune to brexit.

What a lovely human you are.

Reply 8

Andrew97

Entertainment Forum Helper, Debate & Current Affairs Helper

20

Original post by armouredbeast

Leavers are simply incapable of realising the ECONOMIC DAMAGE a no deal will cause!

And remainers are incapable of realising that Doris from Bolton doesn’t give a **** about economics.

Reply 9

Daigan

13

Original post by Andrew97

What a lovely human you are.

You can only educate people as best you can. If they choose not to listen then more fool them.

Reply 10

Andrew97

Entertainment Forum Helper, Debate & Current Affairs Helper

20

Original post by Daigan

You can only educate people as best you can. If they choose not to listen then more fool them.

ok? What has this got to do with this thread?

Reply 11

That'sGreat

21

Original post by Azeee

Leave voter analogy:

When you walk into a car dealership and don't like the car, you need to be able to walk away. You need to be able to say "no deal". This has to be on the table otherwise you end up with a bad deal.

Actual analogy:

We already owned a car. Some would describe it as a Ferrari. Others would describe it as a Ford Fiesta. However, we had a car.

Regardless of what you think of the car, we set fire to it, and now we need to buy another one.

A deal involves getting a car. No deal involves having no car at all. Have fun walking everywhere when you could have been driving.
___

Bonus leave voter comment: "The EU is scared of no deal! We need it on the table to frighten them into giving us what we want."

Reality: The EU have actually been preparing for a no deal scenario for at least a year (they've written up proposals and everything). While they obviously want a deal, they're not naive like you lot.
___

If you're fine with a no deal scenario, good for you, but don't pretend like it doesn't mean certain economic instability that will hit the pockets of the poorest first (the rich will diversify their funds abroad and come out just fine). And shame on you for advocating for it if you do.

I mean, that’s probably an even worse analogy. I love it when Remainers embarrass themselves by thinking they’re more intelligent than they actually are.

Heres a a better analogy:

We are renting a car for an exorbitant amount, it’s on the brink of breaking down but there’s no chance of getting any repairs because the parts are too old, and there’s no hope in hell for an upgrade. Hence, we decide to purchase our own car, however, the rental car company doesn’t like this so refuses to let us out of the contract without a bitter fight. The rental car company is demanding a fee, fair enough we are cancelling the contract early, they don’t deserve it but we’re British, we 0lay fair. However, the company insists we continue to pay for the car to be stored and is demanding part ownership of the new car we will be buying. Of course, this is a crap deal, so we decide to sack them off and leave without paying the the fee.

Reply 12

That'sGreat

21

Original post by armouredbeast

Leavers are simply incapable of realising the ECONOMIC DAMAGE a no deal will cause!

I am a Leaver and I recognise the economic damage. But Leavers are also capable of complex thought processes, something many Remainers are not capable of, which allows us to see the control over skill availability and decrease in unemployment and EU subsidies will actually increase economic growth as tax = more government investment. This will see the country, in the long run, do better. Remainers struggle to see long term, probably because they know theyll be Leavers by then, once they get some actual life experience under their belts.

Reply 13

Azeee

OP

14

Original post by Davij038

Your anecdotes are just as cringeworthy as the pro leave ones.

They’ve laid down the parameters of a car dealership, so obviously if I want to explain it in the same sense then I have to say something that will probably be cringeworthy too. Difference is at least what I said is more accurate. Go be a nuisance elsewhere kid.

Reply 14

Azeee

OP

14

Original post by That'sGreat

I mean, that’s probably an even worse analogy. I love it when Remainers embarrass themselves by thinking they’re more intelligent than they actually are.

Heres a a better analogy:

We are renting a car for an exorbitant amount, it’s on the brink of breaking down but there’s no chance of getting any repairs because the parts are too old, and there’s no hope in hell for an upgrade. Hence, we decide to purchase our own car, however, the rental car company doesn’t like this so refuses to let us out of the contract without a bitter fight. The rental car company is demanding a fee, fair enough we are cancelling the contract early, they don’t deserve it but we’re British, we 0lay fair. However, the company insists we continue to pay for the car to be stored and is demanding part ownership of the new car we will be buying. Of course, this is a crap deal, so we decide to sack them off and leave without paying the the fee.

You lost me at brink of breaking down - the single market and customs union is anything but. If it were that bad then no deal wouldn’t be such a catastrophic outcome that it is forecasted to be. You might think otherwise, but I deal in facts and experts, not keyboard warriors.

Go and educate yourself before writing another text wall of bs.

Reply 15

Daigan

13

Original post by Andrew97

ok? What has this got to do with this thread?

Everything.

Reply 16

cuber314159

11

The EU will not give us a good deal because if they did so and we did well out of it then it would encourage other countries to leave as well, therefore the least worst option overall is to leave without a deal.

Reply 17

winterscoming

19

Original post by Andrew97

And remainers are incapable of realising that Doris from Bolton doesn’t give a **** about economics.

And that is the real crux of the problem -- the whole thing is just extremely complex; Doris from Bolton is affected by economics regardless of whether she cares about it or understands it. If her living costs rise faster than her income, then she will be poorer; if she is employed in a job which depends upon single market access for her employer to make a profit, then she may lose her job if her employer ends up in a situation where the business is less profitable, or maybe even not profitable at all and needs to close. She may not care about economics, but she will care about her quality of life and ability to pay for her own living costs.

Then there's the wider impact on the public finances; Doris from Bolton probably needs public services; all of which are funded by tax revenues (and especially from corporation tax - e.g. big banks in the City which pay around £70bn per year in tax), so if the economy takes a hit (even if the hit is "only temporary" for a few years, which seems to be the justification for why this is OK -- "it will be fine in the long term", etc.) then those public services will be cut back for a very long time for even taken away (especially under a Tory govt.). She needs police to keep her town safe, hospitals in case she falls ill, the kids who live near her need a good school education so that they don't end up turning to a life of crime, etc.

While i'm on the subject, there's a real problem that all the analysis is being rejected by the cheerleaders in some parts of the media, the ERG and their allies, using ad-hominem attacks such as "establishment elite" upon anybody who has substantial experience and expertise in the area of economics. These are cynical and malcious attempts to shout-down and ridicule those who attempt to explain why economics are important to peoples' every-day lives.

Absolutely anybody who attempts to talk publicly about the economic reality and how it can affect real people's every-day lives is consistently dismissed as if they're telling some kind of made-up children's bogeyman story. Those who are dismissing the claims have absolutely no credible counter-argument of their own to make, so they stoop down to ad-hominem personal character attacks instead. Frankly, dismissing anybody using terms like "establishment elite" is a logical fallacy. Anybody whose only rebuttal to an argument is to attack the character of whoever is making the argument by calling them a name has already lost that argument.

The trend of believing that experts are wrong is extremely worrying because it defies all logic and is an absurdly irrational thing to say. I personally cannot fathom how anyone can genuinely be persuaded to believe that those who have an education in the subject or significant experience working in finance/banking are somehow clueless about economics or that their words are simply to be rejected/ignored -- quite the opposite; those people are the only ones who truly have the skills required to be able to perform a sufficiently in-depth analysis of the situation and make any kind of reasoned, well-measured predictions on what the possible outcomes are; and while many people may not like the conclusions, they are the conclusions which have been reached almost unanimously across the whole of the planet (especially in countries outside the EU, such as the US, Japan, China, Australia...).

(edited 5 years ago)

Reply 18

Daigan

13

Original post by cuber314159

The EU will not give us a good deal because if they did so and we did well out of it then it would encourage other countries to leave as well, therefore the least worst option overall is to leave without a deal.