Brexit- Your view
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Original post by Vinny C
Not ruined at all... it has revealed the problem. Democracy should not be about those who best intimidate or shout loudest.
I meant ruined (for me, anyway) because I liked it more when there was a bit more variety in the topics.
QT audiences have always been like that when a subject generates strength of feeling, never really minded them that much.
Original post by mojojojo101
But it isn't the ERG wanting her to re-negotiate.
This farce is perhaps the greatest rebuttal of the phrase 'sensible moderate' imaginable.
This farce is perhaps the greatest rebuttal of the phrase 'sensible moderate' imaginable.
Problem is both sides want to renegotiate but for totally different reasons. The ERG started as a neutral think tank until Boris (then Foreign Sec) got his teeth into it and it was anyone not in favour of leave... get out! I was there. Govt still takes advice from it unaware it now stands for the extreme right group. Might as well hold the Nuremburg trials with a jury selected by Hitler.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Neilos
I meant ruined (for me, anyway) because I liked it more when there was a bit more variety in the topics.
QT audiences have always been like that when a subject generates strength of feeling, never really minded them that much.
QT audiences have always been like that when a subject generates strength of feeling, never really minded them that much.
Disagree... first time it's been vaguely exciting for ages. Worries me when the 'useful idiots' (not my quote) come on saying just get it over with. This is your children's future, your grandchildren's future and... you just want to get it over with?
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Burton Bridge
Why is it on the internet and political conversations on general that quick comments with fixed meaning designed to make the opponent look stupid are so often and quickly used?
"You won't because they have been banished from negotiating by the remain camp."
You and me both.
Original post by BasicMistake
"You won't because they have been banished from negotiating by the remain camp."
You and me both.
You and me both.
Sorry you have lost me mate? Those two quotes written by myself related to two separate issues accross two different topics.
One was highlighting how brexiteer Brexit secretaries have had their power limited by senior members of the government whom support remain.
The other was highlighting how people use conversational listening on the internet to allow themselves to speak without fulling listening to the veiw point of their opposition. Often on the internet these are quick comments designed to make the other look silly.
Original post by Burton Bridge
Sorry you have lost me mate? Those two quotes written by myself related to two separate issues accross two different topics.
One was highlighting how brexiteer Brexit secretaries have had their power limited by senior members of the government whom support remain.
The other was highlighting how people use conversational listening on the internet to allow themselves to speak without fulling listening to the veiw point of their opposition. Often on the internet these are quick comments designed to make the other look silly.
One was highlighting how brexiteer Brexit secretaries have had their power limited by senior members of the government whom support remain.
The other was highlighting how people use conversational listening on the internet to allow themselves to speak without fulling listening to the veiw point of their opposition. Often on the internet these are quick comments designed to make the other look silly.
I'm saying you're a hypocrite.
My point was that the Leave side are failing to come up with solutions for the problems that come with no deal, an idea that only they support. You then said they can't do anything because they've been 'banished by the remain camp'.
As you put it, you're not listening to my point. Even if we take your argument that Leavers have had no influence over the negotiations, that doesn't prevent them from giving us answers about how they would manage the impacts of no deal. If you support something then do your homework and tell us how it will work, don't say 'oh but we're not in cabinet so it's not our problem to sort out those details'.
Original post by BasicMistake
I'm saying you're a hypocrite.
My point was that the Leave side are failing to come up with solutions for the problems that come with no deal, an idea that only they support. You then said they can't do anything because they've been 'banished by the remain camp'.
As you put it, you're not listening to my point. Even if we take your argument that Leavers have had no influence over the negotiations, that doesn't prevent them from giving us answers about how they would manage the impacts of no deal. If you support something then do your homework and tell us how it will work, don't say 'oh but we're not in cabinet so it's not our problem to sort out those details'.
My point was that the Leave side are failing to come up with solutions for the problems that come with no deal, an idea that only they support. You then said they can't do anything because they've been 'banished by the remain camp'.
As you put it, you're not listening to my point. Even if we take your argument that Leavers have had no influence over the negotiations, that doesn't prevent them from giving us answers about how they would manage the impacts of no deal. If you support something then do your homework and tell us how it will work, don't say 'oh but we're not in cabinet so it's not our problem to sort out those details'.
I'm sorry I don't understand how you think I am not listening to you?
Also you are putting words in my mouth, I never said they had no influence over the negotiations, I said they have had there power greatly reduced. In fact I wrote a post detailing on another topic only tonight, have you read it?
You are quite correct that doesn't prevent anyone from giving us answers about how they would manage the impacts of no deal, I believe this is actually happening anyway. unfortunately they are not the ones with the power to action. If I had my way I'd of forced a brexiteer to be PM when Cameron did a runner, but I'm not in any position to do so.
How am I am hypocrite?
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by BasicMistake
I'm saying you're a hypocrite.
My point was that the Leave side are failing to come up with solutions for the problems that come with no deal, an idea that only they support. You then said they can't do anything because they've been 'banished by the remain camp'.
As you put it, you're not listening to my point. Even if we take your argument that Leavers have had no influence over the negotiations, that doesn't prevent them from giving us answers about how they would manage the impacts of no deal. If you support something then do your homework and tell us how it will work, don't say 'oh but we're not in cabinet so it's not our problem to sort out those details'.
My point was that the Leave side are failing to come up with solutions for the problems that come with no deal, an idea that only they support. You then said they can't do anything because they've been 'banished by the remain camp'.
As you put it, you're not listening to my point. Even if we take your argument that Leavers have had no influence over the negotiations, that doesn't prevent them from giving us answers about how they would manage the impacts of no deal. If you support something then do your homework and tell us how it will work, don't say 'oh but we're not in cabinet so it's not our problem to sort out those details'.
Nice, and you don't know the half of it. The leave campaign was orchestrated by Dominic Cummings, a mad, bad genius. When asked what happens if we win he replied... you hired me to win the referendum, not sort the fallout. You're the politicians, not I.
Original post by student-talk
What everyone's views on Brexit? I would like to have a debate on it and see everyone point of view on the issue, and people's views from around the world. My personal view is that we should remain, but I will of course be respectful of others views, and interested to hear the opposite view.
P.S Just a note to say remember to have civil discussion's, and to let everyone express there point of view, as I don't want to cause an argument, more of a discussion. Apart from that it would be great to hear everyone's views.
Thanks
P.S Just a note to say remember to have civil discussion's, and to let everyone express there point of view, as I don't want to cause an argument, more of a discussion. Apart from that it would be great to hear everyone's views.
Thanks
I don't understand Brexit or anything going on politically (though I have tried, but it's depressing to watch the people leading this country flailing their arms and acting like school children in a pathetic attempt to clean up their own mess). I think it's an unequivocal fact no one has any idea what is going on. And you know what? That's okay. I've decided not caring about that aspect of my future will do wonders for my sanity.
Original post by Burton Bridge
How am I am hypocrite?
@BasicMistake Not only that I still don't understand why you quoted two statements I made accross two totally different topics which don't link, in my head anyway? Even when taking them completely out of context I can't in anyway make your point of me being hypocritical at all?
I think you have made a basic mistake
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Burton Bridge
@BasicMistake Not only that I still don't understand why you quoted two statements I made accross two totally different topics which don't link, in my head anyway? Even when taking them completely out of context I can't in anyway make your point of me being hypocritical at all?
I think you have made a basic mistake
I think you have made a basic mistake
*sigh
I'm not going to flog this very dead horse any more after this but here we go...
You said I gave a quick comment without listening to your point.
I called you a hypocrite because you did the same when you simply replied "You won't because they have been banished from negotiating by the remain camp". I then explained how that comment bore no relevance to my point about offering solutions to their own policy.
There, I really can't be arsed to explain it any more simply.
Original post by student-talk
What everyone's views on Brexit? I would like to have a debate on it and see everyone point of view on the issue, and people's views from around the world. My personal view is that we should remain, but I will of course be respectful of others views, and interested to hear the opposite view.
P.S Just a note to say remember to have civil discussion's, and to let everyone express there point of view, as I don't want to cause an argument, more of a discussion. Apart from that it would be great to hear everyone's views.
Thanks
P.S Just a note to say remember to have civil discussion's, and to let everyone express there point of view, as I don't want to cause an argument, more of a discussion. Apart from that it would be great to hear everyone's views.
Thanks
Essentially... the result of the referendum is contrary to the good of the nation. Hence the gridlock in govt. Ok now?
Original post by student-talk
What everyone's views on Brexit? I would like to have a debate on it and see everyone point of view on the issue, and people's views from around the world. My personal view is that we should remain, but I will of course be respectful of others views, and interested to hear the opposite view.
P.S Just a note to say remember to have civil discussion's, and to let everyone express there point of view, as I don't want to cause an argument, more of a discussion. Apart from that it would be great to hear everyone's views.
Thanks
P.S Just a note to say remember to have civil discussion's, and to let everyone express there point of view, as I don't want to cause an argument, more of a discussion. Apart from that it would be great to hear everyone's views.
Thanks
I am not certain where to stand in a way about this Brexit. Knowing that public opinion wasn't request for before the UK politician or who ever, allowed to get into this deal. Honestly, is their mess they should be left on their own to sort themselves out. These rulers are like someone that build a house and letter pull it down with his own hand. This time pull the whole house over their own heads. What a crash! Now that they've accepted the Europeans to come in into th UK, then leave them alone. This is my opinion and view. Just consider blood runs in their body to and it's time "man stop ruling man to his injury", as the holy scriptures describes human rulership. These people have got children now and now would be asked to pack their bag and go, one mess of not individual but a whole family or nation. Brexit or no Brexit, the damage has been done. Only God can sort this mess out for us🤔🤔.
Original post by BasicMistake
*sigh
I'm not going to flog this very dead horse any more after this but here we go...
You said I gave a quick comment without listening to your point.
I called you a hypocrite because you did the same when you simply replied "You won't because they have been banished from negotiating by the remain camp". I then explained how that comment bore no relevance to my point about offering solutions to their own policy.
There, I really can't be arsed to explain it any more simply.
I'm not going to flog this very dead horse any more after this but here we go...
You said I gave a quick comment without listening to your point.
I called you a hypocrite because you did the same when you simply replied "You won't because they have been banished from negotiating by the remain camp". I then explained how that comment bore no relevance to my point about offering solutions to their own policy.
There, I really can't be arsed to explain it any more simply.
Sorry... but we have to flog. We may be right but they have twice our passion and there lies the problem.
Original post by megskc321
The leave campaign lied, saying voting leave would give a certain amount of money to the NHS which turned out not to be true (the NHS would greatly suffer from Brexit as nurses and doctors from abroad could be forced to leave, putting an even bigger strain on the NHS) And if that's not undemocratic then I don't know what is - so I belive a second refferendum would be well within our rights as a country.
Your statement is utterly false, or its based on scare-mongering by Remainers because there is no evidence to suggest Nurses will leave. I don't understand why the doctors and nurses will be forced to leave after Brexit. Who, or what will make them leave? The government made it clear that after Brexit, highly skilled EU migrants are welcome. And whomever is in UK already will get settled status. If anything, the NHS will benefit immensely because they won't have to advertise and wait for 4 weeks to prove there is no suitable EU candidate before they can hire from the rest of the world. The NHS and Care Homes still recruit and employ Nurses from the Philippines, Canada, Australia and Africa because Nursing remains on the skills shortage list. Radiographers and social workers are also on the list, and I personally know two non-EEA people who emigrated to UK in the past 3 months to work in Healthcare. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-k-shortage-occupation-list
Original post by Couragenh
Your statement is utterly false, or its based on scare-mongering by Remainers because there is no evidence to suggest Nurses will leave. I don't understand why the doctors and nurses will be forced to leave after Brexit. Who, or what will make them leave? The government made it clear that after Brexit, highly skilled EU migrants are welcome. And whomever is in UK already will get settled status. If anything, the NHS will benefit immensely because they won't have to advertise and wait for 4 weeks to prove there is no suitable EU candidate before they can hire from the rest of the world. The NHS and Care Homes still recruit and employ Nurses from the Philippines, Canada, Australia and Africa because Nursing remains on the skills shortage list. Radiographers and social workers are also on the list, and I personally know two non-EEA people who emigrated to UK in the past 3 months to work in Healthcare. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-k-shortage-occupation-list
Absolutely.
I don't understand why these lies are being believed, if you think about them for two minutes you realise they cannot be true.
It would be nice to produce our own skilled people and be the best in the world ourselves that must be the goal however it's going to take decades to do this even if we start today, therefore in the meantime we must import them, nobody is saying otherwise.
The vast majority of people don't want deportations anyway, it seem to me like it's the remainers that do so they can throw abuse/blame at Leavers?
Team L and Team R meet for a game of football. Team L wins. Over the following 2 years Team R claims:
+ Team L didn't play by the rules. At one point in the match one of their players pushed another (as did a member of Team R)
+ 1-0 is a close result
+ Team L rarely win so do they even know what it means to be a winner?
+ Team R has a big sponsorship contract if they had won the match, so they should be the winner so they can get the contract
+ Can they just keep playing the game until Team R is ahead, then stop the match?
+ If Team R wins it will be easier for them to attract European players to their club
Would you grant Team R its wish for the match to be made either a draw or a win for them? Most reasonable people would not. Applying this to Brexit the UK should go with a free trade agreement which is what the leave side were offering during the referendum. The UK should continue to work with the EU but only on the basis of equal partners treating each other fairly, because thats what friendship is.
+ Team L didn't play by the rules. At one point in the match one of their players pushed another (as did a member of Team R)
+ 1-0 is a close result
+ Team L rarely win so do they even know what it means to be a winner?
+ Team R has a big sponsorship contract if they had won the match, so they should be the winner so they can get the contract
+ Can they just keep playing the game until Team R is ahead, then stop the match?
+ If Team R wins it will be easier for them to attract European players to their club
Would you grant Team R its wish for the match to be made either a draw or a win for them? Most reasonable people would not. Applying this to Brexit the UK should go with a free trade agreement which is what the leave side were offering during the referendum. The UK should continue to work with the EU but only on the basis of equal partners treating each other fairly, because thats what friendship is.
Original post by BasicMistake
*sigh
I'm not going to flog this very dead horse any more after this but here we go...
You said I gave a quick comment without listening to your point.
I called you a hypocrite because you did the same when you simply replied "You won't because they have been banished from negotiating by the remain camp". I then explained how that comment bore no relevance to my point about offering solutions to their own policy.
There, I really can't be arsed to explain it any more simply.
I'm not going to flog this very dead horse any more after this but here we go...
You said I gave a quick comment without listening to your point.
I called you a hypocrite because you did the same when you simply replied "You won't because they have been banished from negotiating by the remain camp". I then explained how that comment bore no relevance to my point about offering solutions to their own policy.
There, I really can't be arsed to explain it any more simply.
Oh dear, you're doing very well are you? I'm going to resist the temptation to respond in the same manner in which you have.
If you remove the sections I have highlighted in bold you're post would have a totally different feel and be very effective. You see all you do by adding these bold paragraphs in is devaule you're points and highlight yourself as a person whom likes to belittle and put people to try to lift yourself up to greater heights than you're words are accrediting you with on their merit alone.
I will continue this pretending you have not acted in such a condensending manner and not wrote the unnecessary paragraphs so you can see how changing your attitude improve you're debating skills in the future.
...............
Thank you for explaining, the fog has cleared now
Upon revisting what was said I have found I have made a mistake. It was on this topic you highlighted, I have got myself mixed I thought you was quoting something I said elsewhere so apologies for that. Having reread the debate, I can see more where you are coming from, you said
*I picked those out specifically because they are the most direct and most obvious legal issues that come with no deal. There are a million other problems with no deal that need answers and we aren't getting any solutions from the Leave side*
I replied in good faith, maybe because of the condensending manner in which had previously used in this topic even though what I said in good faith, I was probably tarrng you with a brush you should not of been tarred with, for this I apologise. However in my defence I did fully clarify what I meant and I did state where you were correct.
* I said you are very correct, the Brexit secretaries have all been 'brexiteers' however its not that simple in reality. For example I am not sure about how much you are aware of David Davis's time and the reason for his registration? However he resigned because returning control of our laws in any real sense was being made impossible by his remain supporting bosses. The problem only got worse for his successors, May announced she would now lead the crunch talks with the EU only two weeks ago into Dominic Raab's appointment.
I'm sorry to say political games are being played and scapegoats are being set up.
I am more than willing return to the points of the debate, if we can start debating with out the name calling?
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