War patches/badges

Today my nan showed me my family’s patches and i was interested in what exactly my family did in the war so i googled some of the ones i didnt know about and i couldn’t find information anywhere, like i know the desert rat one but when i googled it, it showed different colours and stuff, can any history people help?

Today my nan showed me my family’s patches and i was interested in what exactly my family did in the war so i googled some of the ones i didnt know about and i couldn’t find information anywhere, like i know the desert rat one but when i googled it, it showed different colours and stuff, can any history people help?

Thank you so much for your help, I will have a look after i’ve finished work to see if there’s any responses and let you know.

Hello Summerck-
Unfortunately owing to a cold/cough I did`nt get to London as originally planned to meet up with my friend, but phoned/e-mailed him with your post and he replied straight away:

Going clockwise from left to right:
The three with the blue cross/white background are shoulder flashes of the 2nd Army which in WW 2 took part in the Normandy invasion ( D-Day) then across France, Belgium, Holland and into Germany.

The top one we are not so sure about- most likely Royal Artillery, possibly from one of the horse reins used in ceremonial duties- will try to find out more on that one.

The three with S of A marked on them are from the School of Artillery, post WW2 - British Army of the Rhine ( BAOR) which was based in Rheindahlen (in, if I remember right, an old SS barracks I believe !) Monchengladbach, Germany, close to the Dutch border. The BAOR existed from 1919 -1929 and again from 1945 -1994 which is what these relate to. The 1919-29 one is slightly different. Incidentally, the S of A ones you have are currently going for £38 each on E-Bay- not that you would wish to part with a family heirloom.

The remainder we covered in my previous post.

Hope this is of help, let me know if I can be of further assistance.

Thank you so much for your help!!
I'm really sorry that I haven't replied sooner but I forgot the password to my account and had to make another to use for a while then I forgot completely about the post but remembered and tried again to get on the account (successfully, thank god) so sorry but thank you so much.
It is really interesting to read about what my family could have done in the war since the generation that fought have unfortunately passed away and I wasn't old enough to remember the stories they told.
Thank you once again,
Summer

Hello Summerck,
Glad to help.
Before long the WW2 generation that gave so much and asked (and received) so little in return will have passed on. So we need to collate their memoirs before it`s too late- what people forget is that in their active years in the 40`s, 50`s & 60`s and even the 70`s the war was omnipresent and still very recent in memory and most just wanted to put it behined them: my own Father included - part of him tried to blot it out of his mind, the other half just couldn`t. I have been doing a lot of research into my own Father`s units movements through N. Africa, Tunisia, Sicily, Italy and Greece and I`m not surprised they did`nt elaborate on it, especially when his unit was hastily retrained and used as a front line infantry unit from late spring 1944 until he was moved over to The Royal Engineers just before the end of hostilities.

Incidentally, he never showed any bad feelings to German friends of mine which I had when younger- in fact the exact opposite: his view was the more young people around the world mixed together, the better it was. And let`s not forget it was only a mere twenty odd years after their own Fathers had been in WW1- the war that was going to end them all.............

Hello Summerck,
Glad to help.
Before long the WW2 generation that gave so much and asked (and received) so little in return will have passed on. So we need to collate their memoirs before it`s too late- what people forget is that in their active years in the 40`s, 50`s & 60`s and even the 70`s the war was omnipresent and still very recent in memory and most just wanted to put it behined them: my own Father included - part of him tried to blot it out of his mind, the other half just couldn`t. I have been doing a lot of research into my own Father`s units movements through N. Africa, Tunisia, Sicily, Italy and Greece and I`m not surprised they did`nt elaborate on it, especially when his unit was hastily retrained and used as a front line infantry unit from late spring 1944 until he was moved over to The Royal Engineers just before the end of hostilities.

Incidentally, he never showed any bad feelings to German friends of mine which I had when younger- in fact the exact opposite: his view was the more young people around the world mixed together, the better it was. And let`s not forget it was only a mere twenty odd years after their own Fathers had been in WW1- the war that was going to end them all.............

There were more veterans than you think who did not bear the “ordinary “ German ill will.
I am in possession of a heartbreaking letter which is impossible for me to trace.
Ill give you a quick breakdown.
My grandad died of shrapnel injuries, three weeks before the end, and is buried in Italy. I’ve visited his grave and it’s beautiful.
Shortly after his death my grandma received a letter. From someone named only Hans in Dresden. He tells how he’s returned home to complete devastation, as we know, and that his wife and child are missing. There is very little food and no water. It’s a chatty letter surprisingly and is ended “ your dear friend Hans”.
He did not know grandad had died. Without more information it is an impossible task to track his family down
i have absolutely no idea how he and Fred became friends and I would love to know the story.
It just goes to show that humanity can triumph, even in the midst of war. I’m so proud of them

Hi Sammylou,

How sad and touching at the same time- this happened such a lot : my Father`s younger brother having survived The Arctic Convoys "The worst journey in the world " as Churchill called it at the time, did so only to be killed in an accident during a naval training exercise about three weeks after the war in Europe ended. I understand they were preparing for the Pacific as it looked like the war there could go on for another two or three years. Thankfully it didn`t, but only after terrible loss of life following rightly or wrongly the A-bombs being dropped. Incidentally, my Father`s sister was an army nursing sister in Burma, having jungle related illnesses for the rest of her life afterwards and held very strong views of the Japanese - understandably so, this is only something that will fade as the generations involved pass on and younger people come together. Let`s just be thankful we have never had to be in this situation ourselves; but still the killing goes on around the world - look at the Middle East i.e. Syria etc.

I remember my Father saying about the Germans: "the POW`s were very happy to be out of it - at least the ones I spoke to were. You had the die-hards ; but then so did we. In a very perverse way, probably because of shared dangers and conditions, they became almost like brothers -just about most of them like us, never wanted to be stuck cold, wet through and scared s-less in a slit trench, not knowing if that minute was your last, and seeing 20 year olds literally atomised to red mist before your eyes."

If interested there is The Italy Star Association which if you had a relative as you did is open for you to join. The Italian campaign is often overshadowed by the Western European one - and was not helped by the MP Lady Astor`s alleged stupid remarks at the time about them being D-day dodgers. It is often forgotten that the Allies in Italy had just about everything against going them: hills, valleys, fast flowing rivers, mountainous terrain, and some of the worst weather on record during 1943-44. In addition some of the best German troops were deployed, many of them hardened veterans of the savage, inhuman combat on the Russian front, and past masters at defensive work which Italy with its countryside was almost made for. And, if that was not enough,some of the best Allied kit was taken away for operations in Western Europe.

Thank you for that. I’ll look into it. I know a fair bit about his campaign but it’d be good to join others
I understand why they didn’t want to talk but they had so much to teach us.
It doesn’t look like we’ve learned too much does it?

Hi Sammylou,

I certainly agree on that one.

It might be possible to trace the identity of the German concerned :as you know which reg/corps/ unit your Grandfather was in, you can, or at least it was thus when I did so some years ago to access the war diaries/unit movements either from the Army Records Office in Glasgow ( they gave me quite comprensive ones, including ones which were marked `Top Secret` at the time, when I applied for my late Father`s records), the National Archives at Kew, and the regimental/corps museums.

It is possible that some German POW`s could have been attached to your Grandfather`s unit - it was not unknown for them to be engaged the likes of in construction work such as with the RE`s etc. This may well be somewhere in the records. From tracing your Grandfather`s movements, there is plenty of info. around to establish which opposing German units were around at the time. Then the German War records office or especially the Italian Star Association maybe could help with POW lists etc.

The ISA is well worth joining, they deal with plenty of queries such as you have - Frank de Planta, I believe his Father was in Italy in WW2 and and is an ex Army Officer himself- is very much a subject expert on this and gives his extensive knowledge freely to members.

Hope this helps in some way, let me know if can be of further assistance.

It would be interesting to see if Han`s descendants could be traced : Dresden with its Baroque architecture was known as `Venice of The North` before the madness of Hitler and WW2.