We ignored World War one veterans?

Whenever we have world war memorial days/services we always ignore these kind of sentiments expressed by the actual people who thought in the wars. Even goes so far as Gove trying to erase it all as a Blackadder conspiracy.

"When the war ended, I don't know if I was more relieved that we'd won or that I didn't have to go back. Passchendaele was a disastrous battle – thousands and thousands of young lives were lost. It makes me angry. Earlier this year, I went back to Ypres to shake the hand of Charles Kuentz, Germany's only surviving veteran from the war. It was emotional. He is 107. We've had 87 years to think what war is. To me, it's a licence to go out and murder. Why should the British government call me up and take me out to a battlefield to shoot a man I never knew, whose language I couldn't speak? All those lives lost for a war finished over a table. Now what is the sense in that?" -
Harry Patch

Reply 1

jammy4041

I would have to agree with Harry Patch.

History is indeed written by the victors, but yes, it's very sad, and it reduces the appreciation for the fact that there were millions of people killed who weren't on "our side" and are effectively erased from our history. I remember going to Tyne Cot cemetery in Flanders. Around 13,000 British, Canadian, Newfoundlander, South African and ANZAC soldiers were buried, but there were only four graves in there for the Central Powers. I visited Langemark and the contrast between the Entente graves and the Central Powers' graves were stark. There was a mass grave, and those who were able to be buried whole, I guess, were six to a grave with a little headstone, which was itself black, and on the floor. Memorialization is itself very tricky, but it's not going to happen from governments which fight wars with a certain ideology.

World War I was the most futile, pointless struggle, and all of the nations essentially fell into war with eachother. I think Harry Patch's main emphasis, is that there didn't need to be a war especially if it was going to be decided with diplomacy. A war with no winners, just losers. Millions wiped out, and untold millions of families and communities -- whatever language they spoke -- affected forever. There's no undoing death, and yet, everyone involved in that war had to grapple with that struggle between life and death, each and every waking second. Simply awful and indescribable. One can only imagine the horrible things they had to go through. With World War I, I think that there is a difference in that it was so static. The Somme and Passchendaele were, from a British point of view, the biggest military disasters ever, but even that does significant disservice to those who fought in the darn thing. Thousands upon Thousands sent across No Man's Land to their deaths in one fell sweep. Thousands more on the other side. And the constant bombardment of artillery, used to an unprecedented extent in the war...who knows its real effect on the soldiers.

The thing that really gets me, is that there is this chant, which some people use, which goes along the lines of "two World Wars, and one world cup" which really trivializes the fundamental lunacy and blood lust of all wars, but especially the First World War.

I am a big fan of Blackadder, and especially liked the Blackadder Goes Forth. The underlying point of Blackadder was the ineptitude of General Melchett (a portrayal of the 'lions led by donkeys' attitude taken in the late Eighties to the present), the futility of war, and from watching the program, it aims to build a certain sympathy for both sets of soldiers. Blackadder Goes Forth, like anything really, was a product of its time.

For what it's worth, I thought Tony Robinson was spot on here. Gove essentially took a pop at Blackadder for helping to challenge the 'patriotism narrative' outcome of the war.
[video="youtube;xjXCRK0glko"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjXCRK0glko[/video]

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 2

UnclePete

I fully agree- as my Father, which I`ve put in previous history section posts, himself a WW 2 veteran- said " there is no glory in that game-and anybody tells you so is wrong in the head, believes their own lies, has never been in any - or all three ". Then as he went on: " you exist- not live- in the same conditions like an animal, develop animal instincts, and kill or be killed like an animal ". He pretty well echoed Harry Patch`s words : " oddly enough, you don`t at times feel any particular animosity to the opposing troops as in a very strange way, because of sharing the same conditions and dangers and not knowing if that minute is your last, they almost become your brothers" -only against the crackpots that started it all. And as he told me once, " just about all the German POW`s I spoke to were just very glad to be out of it : you had the diehards - but so did we as well ".

I think we tend to forget that the likes of Harry Patch hardly had time to put WW 1 behined them when their sons had to get involved in WW 2 - and Patch himself during WW 2 was a fireman in Bath when it was victim to some of the infamous ` Baedeker Raids` which the Luftwaffe ( German Air Force) purposely targeted towns and cities such as Exeter, Canterbury and Bath as a result of the RAF bombing and pretty well destroying historic Lubeck with its old wooden buildings earlier.

I certainly agree with your comments on the" two world wars and one world cup" chants- I`ve seen it myself when on the continent from some of our football crowds, and I`ve just avoided them not wishing to be associated in any way. Not a good advert for UK ltd.

(edited 5 years ago)

Reply 3

Quady

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

Harry Patch died in 2009 innit.
Even if the thread is 3 years old.

Reply 4

the bear

just to say that Blackadder is a cheap slander on the professional officers who risked their lives, and often lost them, alongside the brave ordinary soldiers.
the right-on history teachers who use this snide TV caricature to indoctrinate today's "kids" should be ashamed.

Reply 5

AperfectBalance

Whilst the immesurable loss of lives is extremely sad the largest loss and most devistating loss we have ever seen due to ww1 (and 2) is the loss of Empire, the world had lost the greatest force for good ever present in the world and the dismantlement of European hegemony over the world, two of the worst things to ever happen to Humanity and no amount of blood or money will ever change that.

Reply 6

Quady

Original post by the bear

Blackwater went over the top with his fellow tommies and seemingly gave his life with them.

So I guess I haven't a clue what your point is supposed to be.

Reply 7

the bear

Original post by Quady

Blackwater went over the top with his fellow tommies and seemingly gave his life with them.

So I guess I haven't a clue what your point is supposed to be.

sure you don't :wink:

Reply 8

Quady

Original post by the bear

sure you don't :wink:

You realise CAPTAIN Blackadder went over the top with Captain Darling?

I guess your point was mere Officers weren't shown to have died?

Reply 9

ChaoticButterfly

Original post by the bear

Both Blackadder and Goerge are officers, Darling (also an officer) joins them all when they go over the top in the final episode. Considering an officer is the main character you are going to have to be more specific. The officers who woukld have been in the trenches were not of the level of those who get refered to as "donkeys".

I always get the feeling poeple like you would rather we had more wars on the scale of the great wars, rather than entertain the idea they may not have beeen that great. I imagine blackadder is a slanted liberal-lefty view of the war, but I would rather our kids were indoctrinated with that as apposed to the brain rotting naitonalism that made them so enthusiastic to sign up and fight back in 1914.