Brexit voting week: &#x27;Extension to Article 50&#x27; vote passes 412-202

Original post by Top123

what sort of deal is she trying to make? like what does it include
and what happens if we brexit with no deal?

i dont know much about all this, but im beginning to get interested :smile:

The exit deal has been made except for one small issue which they cant agree on called the Irish backstop.

Its what they have been arguing about for months.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-45880401/brexit-basics-what-is-the-backstop

Reply 43

Doones

21

Original post by Burton Bridge

Not according to these guys

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-socialenterprise/half-of-britains-social-entrepreneurs-dont-fear-a-no-deal-brexit-says-survey-idUSKCN1QB1XI

You don't know, nor do I. What I do know is delaying for delaying sake is not good.

I think I'd put more weight on the CBIs view than "social entrepreneurs".

http://www.cbi.org.uk/news/uk-facing-huge-blow-on-trade-in-no-deal/

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 44

999tigger

Original post by Doones

I think I'd put more weight on the CBIs view than "social entrepreneurs".

http://www.cbi.org.uk/news/uk-facing-huge-blow-on-trade-in-no-deal/

Posted from TSR Mobile

I beat you to it.

Reply 45

Original post by the bear

just to remind you what has happened so far:

https://pics.me.me/a-short-history-of-britains-relationship-with-the-eu-uk-19269797.png

:h:

That's a pretty funny summary of Britain's spoiled overbearing bully-brother-brat behaviour over the decades, but alas, it is quite gappy and does not convey the full awfulness of it. Much of it of course following Tory principles.

Reply 46

Original post by Top123

what sort of deal is she trying to make? like what does it include
and what happens if we brexit with no deal?

i dont know much about all this, but im beginning to get interested :smile:

Technically, the deal is about what happens during the next couple of years, whilst we negotiate our future relationship with the EU. It provides for the continuation of open borders and other key aspects of the Single Market and Customs Union during that time.

Nobody is quite sure what happens if we leave with no deal at all. We have already made some arrangements that would deal with this, but many areas, such as smooth flow of goods through customs, the travel rights of British citizens in the EU and EU citizens in the UK and a number of other important aspects of trade, such as tariffs on goods and services, are all difficult to predict. The UK government has generally refused to say what it would do in many of these issues.

Reply 47

Original post by 999tigger

It isnt delaying for delayings sake.
The people you posted represent social enterprises and not big business.
All that happened in a very limited survey is some of them said they wouldnt be effected, but then their social enterprises would be within the UK anyway.
I am more interested in businesses who export and earn foreign currency.
So that example was neither good or persuasive.

http://www.cbi.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/impact-of-a-no-deal-brexit-across-the-uk/impact-of-a-no-deal-brexit-across-the-uk-continued/

Well what is it then, because from where I'm sitting it's delaying for delaying sake to avoid leaving the EU without a deal as Parliament voted for when they triggered A50?

Let me be 100% honest I'm not saying no deal is ideal or no brexit is but delaying for avoiding sake is worse, the public has had enough of bexit, I've had enough and I bet you have too?

Reply 48

Original post by Burton Bridge

Well what is it then, because from where I'm sitting it's delaying for delaying sake to avoid leaving the EU without a deal as Parliament voted for when they triggered A50?

Let me be 100% honest I'm not saying no deal is ideal or no brexit is but delaying for avoiding sake is worse, the public has had enough of bexit, I've had enough and I bet you have too?

Clearly it isn't about delaying for the sake of delaying - it's about trying to avoid the worst damage that no deal would do to Britain, including severe damage to our economy. Even under the PM's proposed deal, there would be much damage, but it would be 10 times worse under no deal.

Reply 49

Original post by Doones

I think I'd put more weight on the CBIs view than "social entrepreneurs".

http://www.cbi.org.uk/news/uk-facing-huge-blow-on-trade-in-no-deal/

Posted from TSR Mobile

Well you would, if was the other way around you would also because you are looking for views that reinforce your own.

My view is as #49 we just need to get some closure, I have not read 0the withdrawal agreement properly yet I have it downloaded on my phone and from what I've read, it's little different to the last one. I'm guessing it will be rejected, I'm kind of secretly hoping it will get accepted because it will at least bring closure and will be a happy medium for many remainers.

Reply 50

999tigger

Original post by Burton Bridge

Well what is it then, because from where I'm sitting it's delaying for delaying sake to avoid leaving the EU without a deal as Parliament voted for when they triggered A50?

Let me be 100% honest I'm not saying no deal is ideal or no brexit is but delaying for avoiding sake is worse, the public has had enough of bexit, I've had enough and I bet you have too?

Triggering article 50 in the way she did was a monumental mistake,one of two made by May. It was entirely her choice.

She hasnt lost the vote yet. the extension is simply to give them a bit more time to reach an agreement/ compromise i.e it serves a purpose. Not many people want to leave without any form of deal because businesses are going to suffer. I cant see the issue in waiting another 2-3 months considering we've been in over 40 years and the billions that are at stake.

Dont forget the deal being talked about has been 99% fixed and the wrangling is about the back stop.

Reply 51

Doones

21

Original post by Burton Bridge

Well you would, if was the other way around you would also because you are looking for views that reinforce your own.

My view is as #49 we just need to get some closure, I have not read 0the withdrawal agreement properly yet I have it downloaded on my phone and from what I've read, it's little different to the last one. I'm guessing it will be rejected, I'm kind of secretly hoping it will get accepted because it will at least bring closure and will be a happy medium for many remainers.

Considering the Confederation of British Industry represents a somewhat larger share of GDP and employment than the "social entrepreneurs" yes they are people whose view carries more weight.

Reply 52

MrSuavetopia

OP

Original post by Burton Bridge

My view is as #49 we just need to get some closure, I have not read 0the withdrawal agreement properly yet I have it downloaded on my phone and from what I've read, it's little different to the last one. I'm guessing it will be rejected, I'm kind of secretly hoping it will get accepted because it will at least bring closure and will be a happy medium for many remainers.

There is not a lot different at all. The major sticking point, the Irish backstop, has been fluffed ever so slightly but is still for all intents and purporses the same as in November.

Also I think you're underestimating how disliked the deal is. It passing wouldn't be a happy medium for Remainers, nor Hard Brexiters.

Reply 53

Original post by Fullofsurprises

Clearly it isn't about delaying for the sake of delaying - it's about trying to avoid the worst damage that no deal would do to Britain, including severe damage to our economy. Even under the PM's proposed deal, there would be much damage, but it would be 10 times worse under no deal.

And you know this as 100% fact how?

You don't do you? You don't know there's just no real precedent for what would happen we simply don't know

Reply 54

Original post by MrDystopia

There is not a lot different at all. The major sticking point, the Irish backstop, has been fluffed ever so slightly but is still for all intents and purporses the same as in November.

Also I think you're underestimating how disliked the deal is. It passing wouldn't be a happy medium for Remainers, nor Hard Brexiters.

Oh no I don't think that, I know its universally hated mate. I'm a member of was a member of another forum for a sporting event/pastime I partake in and they are mainly hard core Leavers and here we have hard core remainers and I clashed with both groups, here and there. I'm more in the middle, I voted leave and leave we must because that's is the will of the people from the referendum, we cannot just ignore the referendum as slimy Cameron did.

I don't know mate, I don't have a magic answer but in my opinion extending A50 is the worst possible outcome.

As I said above I've not fully read the agreement yet but from what I have I agree with you little has changed. This cannot go on and on its got to end and what will be will be. No Brexit is unthinkable, second referendum would be diastorious and not what the vast majority of the electorate want, no deal is less than ideal.

This deal could be the happy medium to meeting in the middle? You will never please the EU rose tinted remainers nor the hard core brexiteers whom have the opposite on their eyes, we can call them rainy shades for the purpose of this.

There needs to be a compromise soon and the only option are this deal or no deal. Put to the vote .... I don't know how I'd vote probably no deal but we really DONT NEED another referendum. That I'm sure of.

Reply 55

Original post by Burton Bridge

And you know this as 100% fact how?

You don't do you? You don't know there's just no real precedent for what would happen we simply don't know

Half of all our trade is with the EU. In what real world, where there are suddenly tariffs applied across that, do you imagine we will still have the same economy as before?

In fact, we do already have extensive evidence that even the threat of a hard brexit is enough to drive many companies out of the UK. Here is a list of some of the major ones.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-companies-leaving-uk-list-job-cuts-eu-no-deal-customs-union-a8792296.html

Reply 56

Original post by Fullofsurprises

Half of all our trade is with the EU. In what real world, where there are suddenly tariffs applied across that, do you imagine we will still have the same economy as before?

In fact, we do already have extensive evidence that even the threat of a hard brexit is enough to drive many companies out of the UK. Here is a list of some of the major ones.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-companies-leaving-uk-list-job-cuts-eu-no-deal-customs-union-a8792296.html

Trade is a two way deal, it will hurt both sides. This is why it won't be permanent

Reply 57

Original post by Burton Bridge

Trade is a two way deal, it will hurt both sides. This is why it won't be permanent

The EU has numerous 2-way permanent tariffs in place with lots of countries.

The ones where it doesn't have trade deals.

Reply 58

Original post by Fullofsurprises

The EU has numerous 2-way permanent tariffs in place with lots of countries.

The ones where it doesn't have trade deals.

They do but replacing good customers is never as easy as 123, trust me. The instant the sting will be felt both sides and the eurozone is a hardly in the best shape currently either don't forget.

(edited 5 years ago)

Reply 59