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Home Office quotes Bible verses to prove Christianity is not a religion of peace

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I have to say, the concept of a British civil service dept quoting Leviticus as justification for policy rulings has to be one of the most extreme examples of the infiltration of whackjobs into our national structures that I've recently come across.

Presumably this is someone in an outsourced service they are using, in which case, you have to ask, where is the supervision or contract management?

Either way, both idiotic and disturbing at the same time.
Original post by Leviathan1611
the reason they cherry pick is because 1) they want to enjoy their sin without guilt or 2) they're spiritually weak in the sense that they're to afraid to endure people attacking them and mocking them. they'd rather have the world's approval that God's approval.


If gods approval means doing things like keeping slaves then he can do one quite frankly.
Original post by AJ126
If gods approval means doing things like keeping slaves then he can do one quite frankly.


when did God command us to own slaves? if you want God's approval, my advice is to 1) believe on his Son Jesus Christ alone to save you and not trust in your own works, and 2) Fear God and keep his commandments.
Original post by Leviathan1611
when did God command us to own slaves? if you want God's approval, my advice is to 1) believe on his Son Jesus Christ alone to save you and not trust in your own works, and 2) Fear God and keep his commandments.


In the new testament.God says slaves should obey their masters.You can deduce from this that he has no problem with slavery.
He also says women should be silent and accept a man's authority.
Original post by AJ126
In the new testament.God says slaves should obey their masters.You can deduce from this that he has no problem with slavery.
He also says women should be silent and accept a man's authority.


yes, he has no issue with it, when done according to his law, but that's not the same as him saying, "I don't approve of you unless you go buy yourself some slaves"

he says women should keep silence in the churches and that if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home, what he means is that when the pastor/preacher is preaching, the women must be silent, and if she has a question about the sermon, she should ask her husband when they get home. not "a woman must be silent at all times all her life".

a woman should accept her own husband's authority, as it is written, "wives submit yourselves unto your own husbands". I don't recall a scripture saying that a woman should submit to every man's authority. I think you meant that a woman cannot usurp the authority of a man, like, being a pastor, or some sort of leadership role, where she's telling men what to do.
As we can see here, there really isn't much difference between an extreme Mohammedan and an extreme Christian. Both want to live in ancient times and to enforce barbaric rules, that pertained then, to the modern world. And, of course, there are whole communities of Jews that also live in their little bubble.

It is amazing what superstition and fear can do to people.
lol the Government taking swipes at a religion, when our state religion is the Church of England. Wonder if they could do the same about Judaism or Islam?
Original post by Onde
If Jesus was alive today, he'd be spinning in his grave.


He is alive, and He's not/and won't be spinning in a grave. but rather, He is currently seated at the right hand of God the Father in heaven.
Original post by Leviathan1611
He is alive, and He's not/and won't be spinning in a grave. but rather, He is currently seated at the right hand of God the Father in heaven.


Unfortunately, Onde lives in the real world, not your far-away fantasy land.
Original post by Good bloke
Unfortunately, Onde lives in the real world, not your far-away fantasy land.


you'll come to realise that "fantasy land" is actually real, I hope you'll be allowed in before it's too late🙂
Original post by FinalZolution
Talmud promotes genocide against non-Jews but you wont find any of those atheists attack them


Most atheists don't really set out to "attack people", but they may criticise religion. Many people don't know much about Judaism/don't think it's relevant to them. Nevertheless, I suppose there is provably some criticisms of Judaism out there🤷*♀️

Also note that a lot of criticisms are made towards the Abrahamic religions, as a whole.
Original post by Leviathan1611
He is alive, and He's not/and won't be spinning in a grave. but rather, He is currently seated at the right hand of God the Father in heaven.


This statement is genuinely scary.I may as well just direct all questions to your priest/ teacher.I'd probably get exactly the same answers.They certainly did a good job with the brainwashing.I can "hear" their voice but it's your lips that are moving.
Original post by AJ126
This statement is genuinely scary.I may as well just direct all questions to your priest/ teacher.I'd probably get exactly the same answers.They certainly did a good job with the brainwashing.I can "hear" their voice but it's your lips that are moving.


yeah you need a good "brainwashing" too, a brainwashing of the Holy Ghost, then your eyes can be opened to the truth.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Good bloke
As we can see here, there really isn't much difference between an extreme Mohammedan and an extreme Christian. Both want to live in ancient times and to enforce barbaric rules, that pertained then, to the modern world. And, of course, there are whole communities of Jews that also live in their little bubble.

It is amazing what superstition and fear can do to people.


Just out of curiosity what is it that made you hate this religion so much?
Original post by Wired_1800
This post was interesting to read. Do you still believe in the Catholic doctrine to call yourself a Catholic?

Do you think there should be a move to one global religion?


Yes.
Metaphorically speaking catholic doctrine is one very tall tree; with deep roots, a lot of branches and the potential to yield both good & bad apples.
One unique tree in a forest filled with many beautiful trees of different ages, sizes and types.
The principal catholic doctrines most people seem to focus on revolve around the four marks of the church (one, holy, catholic, apostolic), the salvation debate, sanctity of life, papal infallibility and vatican ii.
Most of those doctrines accommodate a variety of approaches ranging from liberal to traditionalist.

The fundamentalist approach doesn't really fit because of the conflict between a fundamentalist's defence of papal infallibility yet rejection of vatican ii reforms.
That is a big issue that the sedevacantist faction tend to crumble over, their response is to excommunicate anyone who disagrees with them including the pope and claim that the catholic church has been taken over by heretics since 1958.
Even traditionalists that reject vatican ii have similar problems although they do acknowledge the legitimacy of all modern popes and chose to remain in communion with the catholic church whilst simultaneous snarling abuse at "modernism".

I accept vatican ii and believe in interfaith marriage.
I'm not into the conversion agenda.
Or the accusations of "heretic"/ "false religion" so often leveled at other people with alternative viewpoints by medieval minded religious hardliners who view religious pluralism with absolute horror.
My father is a loud militant atheist; he bellows about all religion being "an evil cult that only exists to scam money and control the gullible"- anything can set him off.
Telling her family she was going to marry an atheist got my mother almost beaten to death, then disowned and disinherited.
My mother prefer political activism to religion but still believes in the abstinence movement until marriage and that abortion is wrong under all circumstances.
The catholic church does allow lifesaving abortion.

No.
I don't think that there has ever been a single organized religion in human history that was perfect, complete and all encompassing.
Not in theology, practice and structural hierarchy.
There never will be.
Too much sectarianism/xenophobia, violence, fanaticism, dishonest game playing and a lust for power amongst human beings.
Secular humanism, philosophy and history can add amazing layer of perspective when it comes to understanding religious theology and its evolution over the ages.

Almost every mainstream religion has positive elements and their faith leaders/religious scriptures offer some good advice.
Sikhism's teachings about seva which inspires many sikhs to provide free food at their gurdwara's to anyone who wants it every day.
Hinduism's respect for the natural world, wonderful celebrations and food hospitality.
Islam's meat charity and fourteen hundred year old annual welfare levy to financially provide for those most vulnerable.
Scientology's narconon drug rehabilitation program provided free of charge to drug addicts from all backgrounds.
The Amish attitude of victims offering unconditional forgiveness to the most vicious of offenders, even parents granting forgiveness to the remorseless murderers of their young children.
Original post by londonmyst
Yes.
Metaphorically speaking catholic doctrine is one very tall tree; with deep roots, a lot of branches and the potential to yield both good & bad apples.
One unique tree in a forest filled with many beautiful trees of different ages, sizes and types.
The principal catholic doctrines most people seem to focus on revolve around the four marks of the church (one, holy, catholic, apostolic), the salvation debate, sanctity of life, papal infallibility and vatican ii.
Most of those doctrines accommodate a variety of approaches ranging from liberal to traditionalist.

The fundamentalist approach doesn't really fit because of the conflict between a fundamentalist's defence of papal infallibility yet rejection of vatican ii reforms.
That is a big issue that the sedevacantist faction tend to crumble over, their response is to excommunicate anyone who disagrees with them including the pope and claim that the catholic church has been taken over by heretics since 1958.
Even traditionalists that reject vatican ii have similar problems although they do acknowledge the legitimacy of all modern popes and chose to remain in communion with the catholic church whilst simultaneous snarling abuse at "modernism".

I accept vatican ii and believe in interfaith marriage.
I'm not into the conversion agenda.
Or the accusations of "heretic"/ "false religion" so often leveled at other people with alternative viewpoints by medieval minded religious hardliners who view religious pluralism with absolute horror.
My father is a loud militant atheist; he bellows about all religion being "an evil cult that only exists to scam money and control the gullible"- anything can set him off.
Telling her family she was going to marry an atheist got my mother almost beaten to death, then disowned and disinherited.
My mother prefer political activism to religion but still believes in the abstinence movement until marriage and that abortion is wrong under all circumstances.
The catholic church does allow lifesaving abortion.

No.
I don't think that there has ever been a single organized religion in human history that was perfect, complete and all encompassing.
Not in theology, practice and structural hierarchy.
There never will be.
Too much sectarianism/xenophobia, violence, fanaticism, dishonest game playing and a lust for power amongst human beings.
Secular humanism, philosophy and history can add amazing layer of perspective when it comes to understanding religious theology and its evolution over the ages.

Almost every mainstream religion has positive elements and their faith leaders/religious scriptures offer some good advice.
Sikhism's teachings about seva which inspires many sikhs to provide free food at their gurdwara's to anyone who wants it every day.
Hinduism's respect for the natural world, wonderful celebrations and food hospitality.
Islam's meat charity and fourteen hundred year old annual welfare levy to financially provide for those most vulnerable.
Scientology's narconon drug rehabilitation program provided free of charge to drug addicts from all backgrounds.
The Amish attitude of victims offering unconditional forgiveness to the most vicious of offenders, even parents granting forgiveness to the remorseless murderers of their young children.


Wow, this post was interesting about how your mother was nearly killed for marrying outside her faith. Is your mother’s family English and your father Irish or vice versa? I am wondering whether there were other factors or deeper issues that would have caused such backlash.

It seems the Catholic Church has moved way too forward and probably gone beyond the original doctrine of the Church. I hear people argue that religion should adapt to 21st Century, but I find it a bit silly. Faith should be faith whether it is in 7th century, 15th Century or 22nd Century.

I agree with your points about human desire for power. I think it is the reason why some religious leaders seem to foster differences because it protects their position.

Is the Catholic church matrilineal like in Judaism or patrilineal? Is being Catholic automatically passed on from Mother to Child?
Original post by AJ126
In the new testament.God says slaves should obey their masters.You can deduce from this that he has no problem with slavery.
He also says women should be silent and accept a man's authority.

In the NT the Greek word often translated as "slave" (doulos) refers to a bondsman. You own them but you pay them and treat them with respect, like the Army (in theory). Slavery wasn't the abusive thing it became later. They were often either working to pay off a debt or were captured foreigners from foreign countries, and were treated like people, not livestock.

Original post by Leviathan1611
He is alive, and He's not/and won't be spinning in a grave. but rather, He is currently seated at the right hand of God the Father in heaven.

It's called "humour", you doughnut.

Original post by londonmyst
Yes.
Metaphorically speaking catholic doctrine is one very tall tree; with deep roots, a lot of branches and the potential to yield both good & bad apples.
One unique tree in a forest filled with many beautiful trees of different ages, sizes and types.
The principal catholic doctrines most people seem to focus on revolve around the four marks of the church (one, holy, catholic, apostolic), the salvation debate, sanctity of life, papal infallibility and vatican ii.
Most of those doctrines accommodate a variety of approaches ranging from liberal to traditionalist.

The fundamentalist approach doesn't really fit because of the conflict between a fundamentalist's defence of papal infallibility yet rejection of vatican ii reforms.
That is a big issue that the sedevacantist faction tend to crumble over, their response is to excommunicate anyone who disagrees with them including the pope and claim that the catholic church has been taken over by heretics since 1958.
Even traditionalists that reject vatican ii have similar problems although they do acknowledge the legitimacy of all modern popes and chose to remain in communion with the catholic church whilst simultaneous snarling abuse at "modernism".

I accept vatican ii and believe in interfaith marriage.
I'm not into the conversion agenda.
Or the accusations of "heretic"/ "false religion" so often leveled at other people with alternative viewpoints by medieval minded religious hardliners who view religious pluralism with absolute horror.
My father is a loud militant atheist; he bellows about all religion being "an evil cult that only exists to scam money and control the gullible"- anything can set him off.
Telling her family she was going to marry an atheist got my mother almost beaten to death, then disowned and disinherited.
My mother prefer political activism to religion but still believes in the abstinence movement until marriage and that abortion is wrong under all circumstances.
The catholic church does allow lifesaving abortion.

No.
I don't think that there has ever been a single organized religion in human history that was perfect, complete and all encompassing.
Not in theology, practice and structural hierarchy.
There never will be.
Too much sectarianism/xenophobia, violence, fanaticism, dishonest game playing and a lust for power amongst human beings.
Secular humanism, philosophy and history can add amazing layer of perspective when it comes to understanding religious theology and its evolution over the ages.

Almost every mainstream religion has positive elements and their faith leaders/religious scriptures offer some good advice.
Sikhism's teachings about seva which inspires many sikhs to provide free food at their gurdwara's to anyone who wants it every day.
Hinduism's respect for the natural world, wonderful celebrations and food hospitality.
Islam's meat charity and fourteen hundred year old annual welfare levy to financially provide for those most vulnerable.
Scientology's narconon drug rehabilitation program provided free of charge to drug addicts from all backgrounds.
The Amish attitude of victims offering unconditional forgiveness to the most vicious of offenders, even parents granting forgiveness to the remorseless murderers of their young children.

I thought unquestioningly accepting all dogma and ex cathedra pronouncements by the Pope was an absolute requirement of all Roman Catholics? Especially dogma - iirc rejecting any dogma is instant excommunication.

I dunno, you'd make a good Anglican. Sadly we can believe what we want. While I'm mostly Orthodox there are Anglicans who think none of it matters and you just go sing silly songs once a week.

NB I am not inviting you to be an Anglican - it's just how you come across, that your outlook is compatible with the CofE.

Original post by Wired_1800
Is the Catholic church matrilineal like in Judaism or patrilineal? Is being Catholic automatically passed on from Mother to Child?

It's neither. You become a member of the Church on baptism. Nobody is born into the Church, they are born again into it.
Reply 77
All this because a new trafficking route has been opened up for people in Iran to come over, they fly over to Serbia and then the trafficking gangs carry them through every border up to the Channel and ship them over. In exchange for good money, it must be pointed out. Just another route, to add to all existing ones. Thy sometimes call 999 on the crossing, to be picked up.

Many Iranians claim to have converted to Christianity because that is an easy way to make an asylum claim, like claiming to be gay. In fact, most of them would probably be glad to just arrive and go look for work and look after themselves but we insist: they must first make up a story that a lawyer will be paid for taking as far down the farcical system as possible. If the whole pantomime succeeds, then they can stay. A small fortune, all this costs.

Lawyers and people-traffickers, they earn well out of all this. Maybe the law-makers have shares in the trade.
Original post by Wired_1800
Wow, this post was interesting about how your mother was nearly killed for marrying outside her faith. Is your mother’s family English and your father Irish or vice versa? I am wondering whether there were other factors or deeper issues that would have caused such backlash.

It seems the Catholic Church has moved way too forward and probably gone beyond the original doctrine of the Church. I hear people argue that religion should adapt to 21st Century, but I find it a bit silly. Faith should be faith whether it is in 7th century, 15th Century or 22nd Century.

I agree with your points about human desire for power. I think it is the reason why some religious leaders seem to foster differences because it protects their position.

Is the Catholic church matrilineal like in Judaism or patrilineal? Is being Catholic automatically passed on from Mother to Child?


No, although both of my parents are hardcore supporters of Irish republicanism.
My parents were the students of militant era, they remain revolutionary trade union socialists .
My maternal grandmother has ancestors from scotland, wales, canada and new zealand.
Her husband was english with some distant french ancestry and proudly claimed descent from members of the guy fawkes gang led by catesby.

Ultra traditionalist catholics often have a very insular mentality and prefer arranged marriages with relatives, although my mother's parents met by chance.
My mother had been engaged three times by the age of 22, two of them to men she had never met.
My father was engagement no 4- he didn't want to get married but my mother wouldn't agree to live with him without marriage.
My mother's father was a brutal authoritarian who used his religion the same way that he used his belt and his vile mother set the example he followed 95% of the time.
The only things that she disliked were his choice of wife, his conversion agenda and the fact that his violent rages escalated over the decades until they became impossible for her to control.

No.
Catholicism isn't based on ancestral bloodlines.
Although catholics who marry non-catholics in religious ceremonies do have to promise that all children they have will be brought up as catholics.
My parents didn't get married in church.

There is a lot of internal debate about what constitutes being catholic- baptism, confirmation, religious upbringing, active religious participation or just personal preference.
In northern ireland there are a lot of people who say that they are atheist catholics, defining being catholic by ancestral religious affiliations several generations ago instead of their own personal religious beliefs.
I have met people in northern ireland who call themselves atheist protestants too.
But all the people I know who do this seem to have a staunchly anti-theist agenda plus hostility to organised religion, along with a preference for separatist identity politics based upon other people's religious choices and the combination gives me a negative vibe.
Original post by AperfectBalance
I think you could quite easily show some statistics that show that Christianity is far more of a "religion of peace" than certain other ones.

KKK: hold my bear
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